Politics, politics, politics

[hash browns and onions]

Young people get older though.

Young people are more left wing because they have nothing to lose. The older you get, the more stake you get in society, the more you want to preserve that.

Lots of the 18-25 year old Labour voters will have mortgages and children by 2022. The will be more bothered by economic competence rather than idealism.

The conservatives may need to do something about helping the young on to the housing ladder then.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Easiest way to solve the Brexit issue - plunge the UK into civil war

Easiest way to sort it would be to set Northern Ireland free, Scotland as well for that matter.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Education level is the dividing line on the authoritarian/libertarian axis that is defining politics right now.

It was the split on Brexit and it explains the gulf in voting patterns between the major cities and non-metropolitan areas.

It also fits in reasonably with the age profile and the increase in numbers of people going to university from the 90s onwards.

There is a gulf in values between the baby boomers and generation x.

Another thing to thank Blair for.

 

[glasgowspur]

Easiest way to sort it would be to set Northern Ireland free, Scotland as well for that matter.

What is this obsession with "setting Scotland free"? The SNP has just taken a kicking and are in turmoil because they kept pushing for an indyref2 that few want.
Give it up, stop listening to rabble and listen to the majority, that is supposed to be what democracy is all about.

 

[Robspur12]

Only if British industry and agriculture products are overpriced. You can't go on propping up increasingly inefficient sectors forever - at some point they'll have to compete and stand on their own two fewer

Agriculture is not like mining, this is not just a debate about economics, it is also about food security. We need food to survive. In a time of crisis we should have the infrastructure and people with the skills to be able to grow food for the country. Both of which will be lost if we destroy our farming industry by allowing tariff free foreign imports.

 

[Robspur12]

The House of Lords and the Monarchy are the safeguards against such moves towards dictatorship.

The HoL can delay anything for a year, while the Queen can dissolve parliament and call new elections.

Don't a lot of the members of the Lords just turn up to collect their expenses? Then others are just the cronies of the incumbent or leaving PM. What a waste of public money. In any case if it is important legislation like the Brexit Bill the Commons can invoke the Parliament Act. The Monarchy these days does not refuse to give Royal Assent.

As for the monarchy dissolving parliament on their own initiative when did that last happen? Charles I ? The monarchy would not use the Royal prerogative in that way. Imagine the uproar if it were to dissolves a democratically elected body.

The safeguards are the Commons parliamentarians themselves and the electorate.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That will be interesting to see, because the stake the current over 50s have in is not available to the generations below them, so when they reach 30-50 with little to show for it, i suspect you will see less self interest voting.
And I bet most won't have mortgages!

That's when inheritances traditionally kick in. Though I appreciate long-living is now delaying that.

 

[Gutter Boy]

What is democratic about that? The Taoiseach nominates 11 of his own hacks? No thanks.

Yeah - that and the university nominees are a bit weird. But I think the general vocational panels idea would work well

30 business leaders, 30 public sector workers, 10 academics, 10 doctors, 10 lawyers etc. - nominated from within their professions. That kind of thing. So it's representative but not directly elected and able to argue about primacy re the HoC.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Don't a lot of the members of the Lords just turn up to collect their expenses? What a waste of public money. In any case if it is important legislation like the Brexit Bill the Commons can invoke the Parliament Act. The Monarchy these days does not refuse to give Royal Assent.

As for the monarchy dissolving parliament on their own initiative when did that last happen? Charles I ? The monarchy would not use the Royal prerogative in that way. Imagine the uproar if it were to dissolves a democratically elected body.

The safeguards are the Commons parliamentarians themselves and the electorate.

Not anymore. Not since hereditary lords were abolished. The cost is probably cheaper than a nursing home for the same amount of people would be.

The point of the HoL and monarchy having those powers is not so they can use them. It's so the HoC can't. Power corrupts and shouldn't be concentrated. Political parties don't have a tradition here at trying to subvert democracy, but that's partly because we do have checks (such as them not being able to interfere with the independent boundaries commission).

The queen can use her royal prerogative like that probably once. It's like a bee sting - all powerful but fatal for her. It's kept in reserve for the time when we have our Hitler to contend with.

 

[scaramanga]

Agriculture is not like mining, this is not just a debate about economics, it is also about food security. We need food to survive. In a time of crisis we should have the infrastructure and people with the skills to be able to grow food for the country. Both of which will be lost if we destroy our farming industry by allowing tariff free foreign imports.

Plenty would have said the same about power, yet we import plenty of that now. The days of each country standing alone in the world and only trading a small amount of what they generate are gone. We have to position ourselves properly in the global market and cannot allow the socialist tendencies of the EU to drag us down.

 

[scaramanga]

My brain is playing tricks on me. I'd already posted them but had got some of the details wrong. It's 35 - 44 year olds. The split between Labour and Tories is even in 2015, in 2017 Labour is ahead by 20%.

I'm surprised at that - I wonder if it's something to do with the reduced level of housing ownership.

Best thing would be to release all that council housing into right to buy schemes - should fix the problem.

 

[Robspur12]

Plenty would have said the same about power, yet we import plenty of that now. The days of each country standing alone in the world and only trading a small amount of what they generate are gone. We have to position ourselves properly in the global market and cannot allow the socialist tendencies of the EU to drag us down.

Our energy supplies in foreign hands is not a good thing from the point of view of security. It was done by short term ideologues in the Conservative party who wanted a quick buck for the economy without having to raise taxes, now it is almost impossible to reverse. The Chinese running our nuclear power stations ?- can't say I was too keen on that idea.

Just like the economists are now saying we became overly reliant on trading with the EU and banking to support our growth, there will be reckoning one day when we will regret not keeping control of our energy supply.

 

[scaramanga]

Our energy supplies in foreign hands is not a good thing from the point of view of security. It was done by short term ideologues in the Conservative party who wanted a quick buck for the economy without having to raise taxes, now it is almost impossible to reverse. The Chinese running our nuclear power stations ?- can't say I was too keen on that idea.

Just like the economists are now saying we became overly reliant on trading with the EU and banking to support our growth, there will be reckoning one day when we will regret not keeping control of our energy supply.

The world isn't defined by borders in the way it was. There are very few countries in the world who are able to be entirely self-sufficient and we're certainly not one of them.

Why would any country that is inefficient at providing a resource continue to do so when they can readily purchase those resources from countries that can do it efficiently? It makes no sense other than tradition (the very worst reason to do anything)

 

[Gutter Boy]

Our energy supplies in foreign hands is not a good thing from the point of view of security. It was done by short term ideologues in the Conservative party who wanted a quick buck for the economy without having to raise taxes, now it is almost impossible to reverse. The Chinese running our nuclear power stations ?- can't say I was too keen on that idea.

Just like the economists are now saying we became overly reliant on trading with the EU and banking to support our growth, there will be reckoning one day when we will regret not keeping control of our energy supply.

I think energy and food security are very important. Being reliant on Russian and Gulf oil is not a good situation at all. Look at somewhere like Norway - they have 100% energy security through renewables, so can just kick back and sell their oil and gas to less advanced countries for pure profit.

As solar cells and batteries improve, any defined area should be able to be self-sufficient. There's enough sun energy that lands in a meter squared in an hour to power a city for a day, once we get any good at capturing and storing it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The world isn't defined by borders in the way it was. There are very few countries in the world who are able to be entirely self-sufficient and we're certainly not one of them.

Why would any country that is inefficient at providing a resource continue to do so when they can readily purchase those resources from countries that can do it efficiently? It makes no sense other than tradition (the very worst reason to do anything)

Last week on a good day we hit:

Wind - 26.7%
Nuclear - 23.2%
Solar - 21.5%
Gas 20.8%
Biomass 5.7%
Hydro 0.5%
---
Imports 1.7%

So we're not a million miles away, even with current technology

 

[scaramanga]

Last week on a good day we hit:

Wind - 26.7%
Nuclear - 23.2%
Solar - 21.5%
Gas 20.8%
Biomass 5.7%
Hydro 0.5%
---
Imports 1.7%

So we're not a million miles away, even with current technology

How far are those figures from peak demand?

 

[scaramanga]

Our energy supplies in foreign hands is not a good thing from the point of view of security. It was done by short term ideologues in the Conservative party who wanted a quick buck for the economy without having to raise taxes, now it is almost impossible to reverse. The Chinese running our nuclear power stations ?- can't say I was too keen on that idea.

Just like the economists are now saying we became overly reliant on trading with the EU and banking to support our growth, there will be reckoning one day when we will regret not keeping control of our energy supply.

I think energy and food security are very important. Being reliant on Russian and Gulf oil is not a good situation at all. Look at somewhere like Norway - they have 100% energy security through renewables, so can just kick back and sell their oil and gas to less advanced countries for pure profit.

As solar cells and batteries improve, any defined area should be able to be self-sufficient. There's enough sun energy that lands in a meter squared in an hour to power a city for a day, once we get any good at capturing and storing it.

Why do you need security when everyone relies on everyone else for trade?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Why do you need security when everyone relies on everyone else for trade?

Life's essentials that society would literally crumble without. Everything else is basically a luxury that can be made do without

 

[scaramanga]

Life's essentials that society would literally crumble without. Everything else is basically a luxury that can be made do without

But why do you need the security of having them "home grown"?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Young people get older though.

Young people are more left wing because they have nothing to lose. The older you get, the more stake you get in society, the more you want to preserve that.

Lots of the 18-25 year old Labour voters will have mortgages and children by 2022. The will be more bothered by economic competence rather than idealism.

The only people who ever make this claim are middle aged right wingers.