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Politics, politics, politics

Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I think that's a simplification of the issue.

They were the junior party. There was no way the Tories would have let them have their keynote and probably most expensive policy. It's fantasy.

Clegg has been done for by black and white reporting. No context, no nuance. Burn the witch.
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Exactly. Just think back for a minute to the economic circumstances of the time. If anyone ever seriously expected a scrapping of tuition fees to come out of that deal, well, as you say, fantasy is the word.

I'm no fan of Clegg, but the way he's been vilified over this is just plain wrong.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Exactly. Just think back for a minute to the economic circumstances of the time. If anyone ever seriously expected a scrapping of tuition fees to come out of that deal, well, as you say, fantasy is the word.

I'm no fan of Clegg, but the way he's been vilified over this is just plain wrong.
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People also need to remember that minor parties (like Labour 2 months ago) can make all the ridiculous promises they want because they know they'll never have to live up to them.

Manifestos that your party has to live and die by are another matter entirely.
 
I am a fan of Clegg, I don't think they had any real choice at the time.

As Scara says, there are those who would rather have had chaos and another general (which the Tories would have won anyway) than what turned out to be a pretty stable and active government, at least until the reelection cycle began.

Would we have had the same sex marriage act if not for the coalition?
 
scaramanga said:
People also need to remember that minor parties (like Labour 2 months ago) can make all the ridiculous promises they want because they know they'll never have to live up to them.

Manifestos that your party has to live and die by are another matter entirely.
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Precisely. Clegg was suddenly in a situation where it was time to get real. That was exactly what he did, which should be to his credit.
 
scaramanga said:
The US system is fairer and more democratic, that doesn't make it effective.

Voters always punish the incumbent government, that limits its ability to get anything done to 2 years.
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Get rid of elections altogether if we want effective , Chinese government is fairly effective.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Exactly. Just think back for a minute to the economic circumstances of the time. If anyone ever seriously expected a scrapping of tuition fees to come out of that deal, well, as you say, fantasy is the word.

I'm no fan of Clegg, but the way he's been vilified over this is just plain wrong.
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Don't put it in to the manifesto then
 
the dza said:
It's a start, but it's normally where it ends with the 'moderate' Tories. They speak out against certain cuts for example, then vote them through with their party anyway. If she means it, then get together with a dozen like minded Tory MPs and pull the plug on the agreement. It's not like she has no leverage here, no good writing on twitter like Joe Mug and then doing nothing -- that's good enough for the rest of us with no actual power, but not for an MP in her position. Will she do something along those lines? I won't hold my breath.
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They think that this posturing enables them to resist the vicious Tory label. They take the average voter as mugs when their right wing voting record is exposed.
 
Gutter Boy said:
It's a pretty damning reflection on Northern Ireland that the only two parties now are the DUP and Sinn Fein. Even though they are still sectarian, the UUP and SDLP were much more palatable. What on earth has happened to the middle class in that country?

In terms of the Tory deal though, does anyone think Corbyn and McDonnell wouldn't bring Sinn Fein into their coalition if they had the numbers and SF didn't have their absenteeism policy?
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Like that would ever be allowed to happen. The Tories would have their mates in the Army on the streets. I love the way that a poster turns this against Labour, when it was the Tories and their fascist friends in the press banging on about terrorist links in politics. Yet they are the ones getting into bed with the friends of terrorists. This logic goes like this...the Tories are putting pensioners into gulags. Yeah, so what, Labour would do worse. Hypocrites?
 
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Don't know if anybody has already said it but...Survation, the most accurate pollster of this election, did a poll today putting Labour 6 points ahead of the Tories (Labour 45%, Conservative 39%). I'm glad the Tories are making the mistake of leaving May in charge, because I think they will become more damaged as a result.
 
the dza said:
Don't know if anybody has already said it but...Survation, the most accurate pollster of this election, did a poll today putting Labour 6 points ahead of the Tories (Labour 45%, Conservative 39%). I'm glad the Tories are making the mistake of leaving May in charge, because I think they will become more damaged as a result.
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Not doing herself any favours by not having much of a reshuffle - couple of minor swaps of position but only ministers to have their portfolio removed are those that were sacked by the electorate. Internal Tory party politics and her position within the party means from that perspective she can't really make any changes even if that doesn't go down well with the public.
 
the dza said:
Don't know if anybody has already said it but...Survation, the most accurate pollster of this election, did a poll today putting Labour 6 points ahead of the Tories (Labour 45%, Conservative 39%). I'm glad the Tories are making the mistake of leaving May in charge, because I think they will become more damaged as a result.
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I don't think they are leaving her in charge, they just haven't sorted out who's going to challenge yet.
 
This has been verified as genuine.

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Greg said:
This has been verified as genuine.

b07cffa4c255d538b0ca6f948ef5b02551766ca80f7ab37c84c07adf3f447b33_3976032.jpg
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nah, that lot on a whatsapp group, Boris not capitalising Thatchers name, using a stupid despcription of a prior PM and frankly the language used is not that of a classics scholar

I know the press are all over it (so not arguing at you Greg) but I don't believe it
 
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