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Politics, politics, politics

Hotshot-Tottenham said:
Surely the timing is awful though?

Why would you want to be a leader now? They're on a hiding to nothing for the couple of years at least.
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Depends how twitchy Bojo gets, he's been dreaming of this since he was a teenager!
His 'adviser' will hold him back, but he will be straining at the leash.
 
Robspur12 said:
Again like I say people understood that well, but tuition fees should have been one of the lines in the sand seeing as it was a very public promise and it secured them most of their seats. Instead they chose to betray their core voters. It's why Corbyn has become so popular because his supporters believe he is sincere and at this point they have no reason to question that.
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It was a promise made from the political wilderness (much like many of Corbyn's).

They're not made in the expectation that they'll happen, they're just guides as to what that person/party believes in. Anyone voting Lib Dem because they wanted to actually make something happen was being incredibly foolish.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I think that's a simplification of the issue.

They were the junior party. There was no way the Tories would have let them have their keynote and probably most expensive policy. It's fantasy.

Clegg has been done for by black and white reporting. No context, no nuance. Burn the witch.
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Sorry disagree completely. They could have let the Tories get their hands dirty and voted against it. Sadly they were drunk with power at that stage. But it's not just tuition fees. They never failed to dig out Blair over his so called "illegal" war before voting to bomb Libya leaving it in as huge a mess as Iraq. They never missed an opportunity to trash Labour, who in the preceding 13 years had made mistakes but had also done a lot to repair public services. They simply aided the Tories to trash the public services further including an absolutely ridiculous re-organisation of the NHS which pretty much every health group and independent think tanks like the Kings fund advised against. Let's be clear it wasnt just about compromise it suited the orange bookers tory lite agenda. They looked rather too comfortable sitting next to the Tories at Prime Minister's questions, something which only dawned on Clegg, amongst other mistakes after his party got a good hiding in 2015. Like I said good riddance to bad money.
 
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scaramanga said:
It was a promise made from the political wilderness (much like many of Corbyn's).

They're not made in the expectation that they'll happen, they're just guides as to what that person/party believes in. Anyone voting Lib Dem because they wanted to actually make something happen was being incredibly foolish.
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Nonsense. How can you make an educated decision about who to vote for without reading their manifestos or listening to what they say? Unless you are suggesting people should just vote for the party they like?
 
galeforce said:
their mistake was making an unkeepable
promise in the first place

had Corbyn actually won last week he'd be bricking himself about the railways now
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You are right mate, but it doesn't let them off the hook imo. Politicians should be more careful about pre election promises.
 
galeforce said:
Gove is back, not a fun post with brexit looming though.
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As ever with May, look where she puts her enemies. Gove has the most complex Brexit mess to sort out replacing European environmental and agricultural regulations. I guess that he will be changing his views on experts pretty soon. Leadsom gets the easy task of getting all of the Brexit legislation through parliament.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Most have only been in post 9 months, so there's not particularly an operational need to freshen things up. It was generally seen as a positive of the Cameron government that he didn't reshuffle too much, allowing ministers to get into their brief and provide some consistency.

Also, who else would come in? Gove and Raab are about the only two heavyweights who weren't already in cabinet. Do you really want to see someone like Jacob Rees Mogg running education or health?!

As May is a social conservative, it's a very good thing she's being restrained and isn't able to flood cabinet with her loyalists. The balance/breadth is better like t.his
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Cameron was doing it from a position of strength, May from a position of weakness, after all of her top ministers refused to move and there was a cabinet coup over her leadership style.

I've said before that the talent pool in the Tory party is very shallow, so her options were limited, but it was widely briefed that she wanted to a wide ranging reshuffle after the election and she has been unable to do that.

What is interesting is that the key promotions seem to be remainers, will we see a change in tone. Green is a solid appointment at the Cabinet Office and effectively Deputy PM. He would be one of my outside bets to replace May.
 
milo said:
As ever with May, look where she puts her enemies. Gove has the most complex Brexit mess to sort out replacing European environmental and agricultural regulations. I guess that he will be changing his views on experts pretty soon. Leadsom gets the easy task of getting all of the Brexit legislation through parliament.
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Gove would also have to see the lifting of the fox hunting ban through, if they press ahead with it.
 
Robspur12 said:
Nonsense. How can you make an educated decision about who to vote for without reading their manifestos or listening to what they say? Unless you are suggesting people should just vote for the party they like?
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It's quite easy. If the party has a high chance of being elected then they're making manifesto pledges that they expect to be held accountable for.

If there's little to no chance then they're making pie in the sky promises that make them sound good, because they all do.
 
scaramanga said:
It's quite easy. If the party has a high chance of being elected then they're making manifesto pledges that they expect to be held accountable for.

If there's little to no chance then they're making pie in the sky promises that make them sound good, because they all do.
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But all the predictions in 2010 were a hung parliament. The Lib Dems knew early on that there was a chance they would be the King makers. In fact their false pledge made it more likely they would be.
 
galeforce said:
their mistake was making an unkeepable
promise in the first place

had Corbyn actually won last week he'd be bricking himself about the railways now
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Exactly, privatising the railways is completely unworkable and unaffordable, the companies would need to be brought out it would take years. He might get some legislation through where he could put an extra tax on the shareholders of rail companies.

I dislike the EU I think it is a corrupt gangster club, actually not think I know it is. But a compromised deal is probably the best we can hope for, so if that means we are paying less money in and the EU courts do not get control over the UK and we can do trade deals with whatever countries we like and it is non of the EU's business then I would be relatively happy and as a spurs fan I am rarely relatively happy.
 
scaramanga said:
And tax, and having any kind of growth, and minimum wage, etc, etc.
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The students would not care if they did not have to pay back their tuition. They could take their degree in American film studies and go and work part time shifts at Pret while being topped up by state benefits and then spend their afternoons masterbating over their friends facebook photos.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
The students would not care if they did not have to pay back their tuition. They could take their degree in American film studies and go and work part time shifts at Pret while being topped up by state benefits and then spend their afternoons masterbating over their friends facebook photos.
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That's one way of looking at it and you are probably right for some. But I can see a real problem with recruitment to degrees such as nursing, physiotherapy when students come out saddled with a £27000 debt and a relatively poorly paid job at the end.
 
Robspur12 said:
That's one way of looking at it and you are probably right for some. But I can see a real problem with recruitment to degrees such as nursing, physiotherapy when students come out saddled with a £27000 debt and a relatively poorly paid job at the end.
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Proper degrees should not have debts or very limited debts, but when the are thousands of degrees in Middle ages History something is going wrong, because we do not need that many historians for that period of history(or any for that matter)
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Proper degrees should not have debts or very limited debts, but when the are thousands of degrees in Middle ages History something is going wrong, because we do not need that many historians for that period of history(or any for that matter)
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I agree but we don't have that system. The Tories have stopped bursaries for the healthcare professions. We should also offer incentives for scientists and engineers. Instead we are scaring off the foreign students who would come here and make up a potential short fall. The Tories are fudging up the economy perfectly well without Corbyn. And that's before we factor in that their deal with the DUP could bring the IRA back to London. Corbyn doesn't worry me the Tories and their egos do.
 
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