• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

Gilzeantoscore said:
The Tories go on and on about the country living beyond it's means and then create a revenue problem by giving their mates in the corporate world, a 65 billion pound tax cut, then argue oh, oh we have a revenue problem, we need to cut the NHS further, what's this, oh we can't afford social care anymore that has to be cut too. Schools, the oinks don't need funding for their kid's education, let's cut spending there too. And on it goes.
Click to expand...
We've been through this, as have the world's economists. If you increase the personal tax burden too high, you decrease the revenue. It might take a bit more nuance and understanding than the average lefty policy, but it's what happens in the real world.

Businesses that have tax savings (on the whole) reinvest those savings, leading to growth, leading to employment. If you punish business, you decrease employment. That increases the need for benefits, which creates the need for a bigger magic money tree. So you go through the same cycle again and again until the country is bankrupt like it very nearly was in the 70s.

Gilzeantoscore said:
What is the Tory rebuttal, the same tired old lines from the fascist Murdoch press, 'the free money tree, a coalition of chaos' etc., just playing patronizing games applying the same old appeals to fears. No wonder things are slipping away from them. They look what they are, a sad bunch of lazy twits who believe that they are born to rule and that any hard lifting would be done by The Sun. May looks and sounds like a ragged public school teacher who has been given a particularly hard time by the lower 5th. What an embarrassment. Wasn't it mean to be Corbyn who was meant to look bad in comparison? What happened to that?

Earlier on in this thread I said that the Tories should underestimate Corbyn at their peril. It seems that my judgement might be shown to be correct. I still believe the forces of darkness will win, but boy they will have been given a mighty scare and that might get them to moderate their more extremist policies a little. This will a great thing for everybody in the long run IMHO.
Click to expand...
That has nothing to do with Corbyn's ability nor (proper) Conservative policies. It has everything to do with May putting out a terrible manifesto and being a shoddy party leader.
 
Spursman said:
Policies aside, i do not want a terrorist sympathiser & a dopey Diane Abbott running our country. GHod help us!
Click to expand...

Arsenal fan as well.

We had some travellers turn up at a local school and break into the playing fields. Disgusting and Corbyn despite being quite good in a lot of ways, wants to protect these low life benefit cheating scum. I cant vote for that. I really do not think I will vote unless the English democrats are back on the ballot.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I thought your lot hated patriotism as it is knuckle headed right wing aggressive.
Click to expand...

Well I am being a bit sarcastic, but with a serious edge. When things get tough for workers, the elite always call for sacrifice in the name of the nation, but when things get even a tiny bit challenging for them, it's rightio then I'm off. The same goes when the bullets start flying too. Just check out the service records of Bush Jnr and Dumpf.
 
scaramanga said:
Yet they're people who vote Conservative and voted for the party making it law. So your accusations are baseless.
Click to expand...

What accusations? I'm saying that gay rights, the environment and gender politics are NOT defining policy area of the left, although others claim that they are.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Well I am being a bit sarcastic, but with a serious edge. When things get tough for workers, the elite always call for sacrifice in the name of the nation, but when things get even a tiny bit challenging for them, it's rightio then I'm off. The same goes when the bullets start flying too. Just check out the service records of Bush Jnr and Dumpf.
Click to expand...

We are not in America so I have no intention of checking out Bush juniors war record(though I seem to remember he was a tinklehead). I think if you approve of mass immigration and I am very close with some Latvians who I consider close friends and great guys. If you approve of mass immigration and all the immigrants I met only came here to make more money and improve their lives(nothing wrong on their part) then you have to appreciate people will do the same the other way.

I fear the will be a brain drain if Corbyn gets in, and as money has always trickled down I wonder what will happen when the is no water.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Arsenal fan as well.

We had some travellers turn up at a local school and break into the playing fields. Disgusting and Corbyn despite being quite good in a lot of ways, wants to protect these low life benefit cheating scum. I cant vote for that. I really do not think I will vote unless the English democrats are back on the ballot.
Click to expand...

Really? That is about a twentieth order policy concern. That would be like me saying I will vote Tory because their recreational fishing policy is better, which it is.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
We are not in America so I have no intention of checking out Bush juniors war record(though I seem to remember he was a tinklehead). I think if you approve of mass immigration and I am very close with some Latvians who I consider close friends and great guys. If you approve of mass immigration and all the immigrants I met only came here to make more money and improve their lives(nothing wrong on their part) then you have to appreciate people will do the same the other way.

I fear the will be a brain drain if Corbyn gets in, and as money has always trickled down I wonder what will happen when the is no water.
Click to expand...

Both members of the establishment and both Vietnam draft dodgers, (in the nice legal way.) Trickle down economics is and always has been a con. It is a failure and is being shown to be everywhere. It is fracturing society. How long do you think the lower orders are going to be content with the crumbs from the economic elite's table? Yep, probably best that you don't vote then.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Really? That is about a twentieth order policy concern. That would be like me saying I will vote Tory because their recreational fishing policy is better, which it is.
Click to expand...

I do not want to vote tory because of May and her fox hunting policy and I really do not like foxes. But it is symbolic of the sort of leader she will be, poor judgement out of touch and unnecessarily cruel.

I will not vote Corbyn because of his traveller policy because it is symbolic of what sort of leader he will be, an over focus on a group that is not a minority but a group of law breaking tax dodging scum who make society worse for everyone, he only wants to protect them because he they are "anti establishment" it is childish and pathetic and shows to me like May he is not fit to govern.

Am not sure what the answer is as we have really poor choices, the EU refendum was easy for me because it was a straight choice between one thing and something completely different.

Not sure if it is realistic because we need a government but I would be all for everyone and I mean millions writing on the ballot paper that we need a real alternative vision.

Think the answer might be in new political parties, UKIP get a lot of abuse but they came in and changed things up and offered an alternative. If people care as much about the NHS as they say they do they should be voting for the save the NHS party, we have one standing round our way. I would not vote for him but I do like the idea of the NHS being funded by its own tax.
 
scaramanga said:
Yet they're people who vote Conservative and voted for the party making it law. So your accusations are baseless.
Click to expand...
I cant be racist some of my best friends are black...

In all seriousness I agree with Gilzeantoscore that these are not left / right issues (as I said to dainish... a few months ago when discussing Libs not being a left party).

Not a criticism of those on here but it does appear that this is a new Tool in the Alt right arguments - cant believe you are bullying trump / me / racists you are supposed to be liberal.
 
Last edited:
scaramanga said:
We've been through this, as have the world's economists. If you increase the personal tax burden too high, you decrease the revenue. It might take a bit more nuance and understanding than the average lefty policy, but it's what happens in the real world.

Businesses that have tax savings (on the whole) reinvest those savings, leading to growth, leading to employment. If you punish business, you decrease employment. That increases the need for benefits, which creates the need for a bigger magic money tree. So you go through the same cycle again and again until the country is bankrupt like it very nearly was in the 70s.


That has nothing to do with Corbyn's ability nor (proper) Conservative policies. It has everything to do with May putting out a terrible manifesto and being a shoddy party leader.
Click to expand...

They are not guaranteed to reinvest those tax savings here though are they? They could very easily reinvest it off shore, you know in one of those nice low rent, low wage, no environmental law dictatorships, where profits are easier to come by... So really your whole economic argument is predicated on the naïve notion that these grasping transnationals will 'do the right thing by Britain.' It's more of a hope than a reality then isn't it? I'll bet you still believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden too. :p
 
We have the biggest negotiation in a lifetime in front of us.....one that will affect us for another lifetime.

And just as we approach this situation.....all the politicians turn to poop. You couldn't make it up.

Let's just get Levy to negotiate Brexit......he's already negotiated the return on North London. #thebestmanforthejob
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
They are not guaranteed to reinvest those tax savings here though are they? They could very easily reinvest it off shore, you know in one of those nice low rent, low wage, no environmental law dictatorships, where profits are easier to come by... So really your whole economic argument is predicated on the naïve notion that these grasping transnationals will 'do the right thing by Britain.' It's more of a hope than a reality then isn't it? I'll bet you still believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden too. :p
Click to expand...
Of course there's no guarantee that they will all invest all of it - I was quite clear that that's not the case.

But most will invest it, and most will invest in the UK - that's been shown time and time again with low corporation tax. The alternative is to increase tax and run the risk of the entire business being places overseas and the tax revenue being zero. Same as with personal tax.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I cant be racist some of my best friends are black...

In all seriousness I agree with Gilzeantoscore that these are not left / right issues (as I said to dainish... a few months ago when discussing Libs not being a left party).

Not a criticism of those on here but it does appear that this is a new Tool in the Alt right arguments - cant believe you are bullying trump / me / racists you are supposed to be liberal.
Click to expand...
I also agree that they are not left/right issues.

I was answering his accusation that those who vote Conservative see it as a left issue, which is clearly not the case.
 
t
scaramanga said:
Of course there's no guarantee that they will all invest all of it - I was quite clear that that's not the case.

But most will invest it, and most will invest in the UK - that's been shown time and time again with low corporation tax. The alternative is to increase tax and run the risk of the entire business being places overseas and the tax revenue being zero. Same as with personal tax.
Click to expand...

Rubbish. If there is a market opportunity and money to be paid they will stay, or other companies will move in to take their place. Was there a capital flight before the Tories made the previous reduction? Of course not. This is typical Tory hysteria, oh no, don't vote Labour the sky will fall in if you do.
 
Last edited:
scaramanga said:
I also agree that they are not left/right issues.

I was answering his accusation that those who vote Conservative see it as a left issue, which is clearly not the case.
Click to expand...
R-U-S-X was agreeing with me Scara. You misinterpreted what I said. I wasn't saying that conservatives were making that claim. I was saying that some people defined themselves as being on the left in those circumstances. This is something that I disagree with. They are no more of the left than you or Danish are. I say that knowing that you both support anti prejudicial causes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back