Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

I dont care about the ethnicty of the nation, but honestly i think the south east is full. Can we send the benefit people up north or perhaps build an island in the north sea and put them all there.

The only thing that the southeast is full of is clams. And I say that as someone who was born in the home counties and lives there now.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I dont care about the ethnicty of the nation, but honestly i think the south east is full. Can we send the benefit people up north or perhaps build an island in the north sea and put them all there.

The only thing that the southeast is full of is clams. And I say that as someone who was born in the home counties and lives there now.

To much economic and infrastructure bias to the South East and London; you have to wonder how long that can continue. All that talk by the likes of Osbourne about the "Northern Powerhouse" seems like it did at the time: a lot of hot air..

 

[Baleforce]

Ok, so do you think this new single group will mainly look like Barack Obama, Thandie Newton and The Rock?

like I say, i have no idea, this is thousands of years into the future, we could all end up looking like mystique from x men for all anyone knows

 

[glorygloryeze]

like I say, i have no idea, this is thousands of years into the future, we could all end up looking like mystique from x men for all anyone knows

Well, i think if science and manmade interventions didn't exist generally your premise could happen; alas they do and i think naturally evolving to form just one main type will NEVER happen..

 

[milo]

To much economic and infrastructure bias to the South East and London; you have to wonder how long that can continue. All that talk by the likes of Osbourne about the "Northern Powerhouse" seems like it did at the time: a lot of hot air..

I agree. I was joking about the SE being full of qunts. The real issue in the SE is migration from the north because the economy is so centred around London.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think that you are right that they will try. Whilst there is massive inequality and war in the world they will fail. And whilst countries are competing to attract global business, they will give in to their demands for access to the most highly skilled staff.

There are bigger things at play. Currently we consume 1.5 times the sustainable level of resources on the planet. If everyone lived at Western levels, that would rise to 7 times - i.e. we'd need 7 earths to support our population, without Easter Island-ing it.

Technology will make up some of that deficit, but the world as a whole need to start shrinking its population. This does happen naturally in first world countries (e.g. Western Europe pre-2004, Japan now) where women are fully emancipated. But it's a Ponzi scheme to keep delaying this by immigration from countries where women are less emancipated.

 

[milo]

There are bigger things at play. Currently we consume 1.5 times the sustainable level of resources on the planet. If everyone lived at Western levels, that would rise to 7 times - i.e. we'd need 7 earths to support our population, without Easter Island-ing it.

Technology will make up some of that deficit, but the world as a whole need to start shrinking its population. This does happen naturally in first world countries (e.g. Western Europe pre-2004, Japan now) where women are fully emancipated. But it's a Ponzi scheme to keep delaying this by immigration from countries where women are less emancipated.

That may be a long term issue but I don't think that it explains why people migrate now.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That may be a long term issue but I don't think that it explains why people migrate now.

It's not really that long a time - populations have only exploded in the last 80 odd years (fuelled by Haber-Bosch).

I think immigration now is absolutely caused by high birth rates in poor countries and low birth rates in rich countries. The excess poor leave where resources are scarce and go to where they are relatively plentiful. While the wealthy governments welcome them to prolong the Ponzi scheme and delay degrowth on their watch.

 

[milo]

I think immigration now is absolutely caused by high birth rates in poor countries and low birth rates in rich countries. The excess poor leave where resources are scarce and go to where they are relatively plentiful. While the wealthy governments welcome them to prolong the Ponzi scheme and delay degrowth on their watch.

I'd be interested in seeing that supported by data on where immigrants come from. I am not saying that high population levels is not a factor but I think that would be small compared to say availability of work, average earnings, standard of living, historical/colonial links between countries, escaping war/persecution, desire to learn a language...

 

[Gutter Boy]

For me the big game changer will be the invention of a desalination membrane. If seawater can effectively be used to bring clean drinking water and fertile soil to the arid parts of the world, the exodus from those places would slow dramatically. The underlying cause of the whole Syrian conflict is the massive drought they've had since 2006 (scarce resources cause war).

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'd be interested in seeing that supported by data on where immigrants come from. I am not saying that high population levels is not a factor but I think that would be small compared to say availability of work, average earnings, standard of living, historical/colonial links between countries, escaping war/persecution, desire to learn a language...

But you don't tend to get those things without pressure on resources, caused by overpopulation. Then you just get the intellectually curious/adventurous trickling around the world, like say Kiwis.

 

[r-u-s-x]

But you don't tend to get those things without pressure on resources, caused by overpopulation. Then you just get the intellectually curious/adventurous trickling around the world, like say Kiwis.

I am sure over population will be a key driver going forwards not sure they back up the argument now? The big numbers (in %) is caused by war and poverty and the poverty is not necessarily caused by overpopulation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_population_density

 

[wiziwig]

I thought the Immigration, World Poverty & Gumballs, presented by Roy Beck video on post #6873 that I posted, has much truth in it and worth a watch. $2 a day ....

One thing that I feel has been omitted from your interesting debate from last night and this morning.

Do you think that there exists, a teaching amongst Muslims, that they're duty bound to migrate to Christian lands? How many refugees from war torn Libya and Syria have made their way to Saudi Arabia?

 

[Gutter Boy]

I am sure over population will be a key driver going forwards not sure they back up the argument now? The big numbers (in %) is caused by war and poverty and the poverty is not necessarily caused by overpopulation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_population_density

Surely overpopulation is having more people than the soil, water and fuel can support? So it's not necessarily related to density. Soil, water and fuel are more plentiful above Capricorn/Cancer, so those belts can support a higher population density without being overpopulated.

 

[wiziwig]

Firstly, it was YOU who brought up workers from the Middle East having permenent residency and it was YOU who posted a meme implying that people migrating from such places to the UK/Europe were part of a plan to create a type of 'diversity' to wipe out the White indigenous residents of those lands.
It is YOU that says effectively you have less of an issue about migrants coming form white countries vs those coming from non-white countries. I did not bring this up, YOU did.

I then asked you to look at things a different way: what did you think of the migrations that occurred from Europe to the Americas in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries (when those areas were NOT lands where the majority of peoples were white).
You still haven't answered me on your view on this, and frankly i don't want to go much further until you tell me your view on this.

Once you do we can bring things back to the present day (e.g. mass migration, your views on Muslims in Europe, Galeforce's point on racial 'unity' etc etc), but i need to see how you think of this initial thing first before we get into any kind of debate....

The message of the meme is to show that, Europe and North America are taking in large uncontrolled numbers of migrants from other continents, whilst other continents aren't.

You replied: if anything it often looks like the plans on global scale are actually the opposite.

my reply: Regarding your thoughts on the plans on a global scale, not sure what you mean but I'm genuinely interested, just please don't tell me that the Middle East with it's intake of Asian workers on temporary work permits, is the same thing as people from other continents coming to the Western Hemisphere to live permanently!

You took it personally and made it personal, when that was never my intention. I were merely making a request that you not go down the road and state that the Middle East ( although in itself is not a continent but a large area with many countries , I should say Kingdoms) take in more migrants from Asia per capita than Europe and North America. If you check a net immigration table of countries, you will see evidence of this, in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and Qatar (6 month work permits). I have encountered this argument before and merely hoped that this would not be what you were leading to when you stated, "if anything it often looks like the plans on global scale are actually the opposite."

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As for the plan to create a type of 'diversity' to wipe out the White indigenous residents of those lands.

Diversity does not necessarily mean 'wipe out' and nor does the meme state that and IMO is open to interpretation. Ridding the whites can mean many things. For example, making them a minority in their own country thus neutralising their true identity and free thought.

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You said: It is YOU that says effectively you have less of an issue about migrants coming form white countries vs those coming from non-white countries. I did not bring this up, YOU did.

Yes in the context of the meme and the debate, I did so as an observer citing the different problems and worries, and not from a racist perspective that I think you're implying. Re-read my previous post.

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In your post #6823 you said: Secondly, can i ask you in light of your comments about people coming from other continents to live permanently "in the Western Hemisphere", what do you think of people from European countries going to live permanently in the Americas and Australasia?

I took the above that you were asking me the question, in the present time, and I replied: I'm not sure what your reasons are for asking me the question . Are Europeans migrating in large uncontrolled numbers to the Americas and Australasia?


You're now saying that you said: I then asked you to look at things a different way: what did you think of the migrations that occurred from Europe to the Americas in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries (when those areas were NOT lands where the majority of peoples were white).
You still haven't answered me on your view on this, and frankly i don't want to go much further until you tell me your view on this.


I answered the initial question - now you're asking me another question but stating, that it's the same question and implying obstinacy on my part!

You do try my patience but ...... At the elite level - Imperial Empire land grab, genocide, the three C's to spread civilisation, christianity and commerce..... At a people level - escaping persecution, fleeing war and famine ...I'm sure there's more reasons but these come to mind.

 

[wiziwig]

it's not "my way"

also, we'll educate religion out of existence in the next few generations

When did this 'educating' begin, I think I missed that?

 

[Baleforce]

When did this 'educating' begin, I think I missed that?

did you not have science class at school?

 

[wiziwig]

I was wondering when those pesky Muslims were going to be brought into this again....

Not all Muslims are pesky and not all pesky's are Muslims.

You're a white supremacist finder general so you're the man to ask ..... Excluding caucasians, can you tell me if there exists people with supremacist tendencies?

 

[wiziwig]

did you not have science class at school?

Yes but I do think you're talking Christianity? I think you're also mixing up church going, with beliefs when asked .

I agree there's evidence that atheism is more prevalent amongst 'Christian' countries but the Muslim religion, is a growing religion globally ...

Totalitarianism and dictatorship has tried 'educating' and has practised the burning of the holy books and destroying places of worship. They failed but we're going to educate it out of them within three generations?

By the way, not all scientists are atheist.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The message of the meme is to show that, Europe and North America are taking in large uncontrolled numbers of migrants from other continents, whilst other continents aren't.

You replied: if anything it often looks like the plans on global scale are actually the opposite.

my reply: Regarding your thoughts on the plans on a global scale, not sure what you mean but I'm genuinely interested, just please don't tell me that the Middle East with it's intake of Asian workers on temporary work permits, is the same thing as people from other continents coming to the Western Hemisphere to live permanently!

You took it personally and made it personal, when that was never my intention. I were merely making a request that you not go down the road and state that the Middle East ( although in itself is not a continent but a large area with many countries , I should say Kingdoms) take in more migrants from Asia per capita than Europe and North America. If you check a net immigration table of countries, you will see evidence of this, in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and Qatar (6 month work permits). I have encountered this argument before and merely hoped that this would not be what you were leading to when you stated, "if anything it often looks like the plans on global scale are actually the opposite."

I wasn't going to mention anything about the Middle East and how many migrants it takes in compared to Europe. But now you mention it, can you show through stats how many migrants it does take for comparison as i'm now interested.

As for the plan to create a type of 'diversity' to wipe out the White indigenous residents of those lands.

Diversity does not necessarily mean 'wipe out' and nor does the meme state that and IMO is open to interpretation. Ridding the whites can mean many things. For example, making them a minority in their own country thus neutralising their true identity and free thought.

Eh?? The meme you posted said: "DIVERSITY means 'get rid of whites', that's WHITE GENOCIDE"
Genocide means the deliberate killing of a large group of people especially of those from the same ethnic group or a particular nation.
So explain how that statement in the meme could be interpreted in any other way: Do yo think ANYONE would interpret "DIVERSITY means 'get rid of whites' any other way, other than the meme suggesting that 'Diversity' is some kind of attack on whites?
Maybe your description of Genocide is different from most other people?

You said: It is YOU that says effectively you have less of an issue about migrants coming form white countries vs those coming from non-white countries. I did not bring this up, YOU did.

Yes in the context of the meme and the debate, I did so as an observer citing the different problems and worries, and not from a racist perspective that I think you're implying. Re-read my previous post.

Ok, as i thought then.

In your post #6823 you said: Secondly, can i ask you in light of your comments about people coming from other continents to live permanently "in the Western Hemisphere", what do you think of people from European countries going to live permanently in the Americas and Australasia?

I took the above that you were asking me the question, in the present time, and I replied: I'm not sure what your reasons are for asking me the question . Are Europeans migrating in large uncontrolled numbers to the Americas and Australasia?


You're now saying that you said: I then asked you to look at things a different way: what did you think of the migrations that occurred from Europe to the Americas in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries (when those areas were NOT lands where the majority of peoples were white).
You still haven't answered me on your view on this, and frankly i don't want to go much further until you tell me your view on this.


I answered the initial question - now you're asking me another question but stating, that it's the same question and implying obstinacy on my part!

You do try my patience but ...... At the elite level - Imperial Empire land grab, genocide, the three C's to spread civilisation, christianity and commerce..... At a people level - escaping persecution, fleeing war and famine ...I'm sure there's more reasons but these come to mind.

Ok, let me ask you simply: in your opinion is the migration to the "Western Hemisphere lands" from beyond the "Western Hemisphere" that we see today any different to the migration seen from Europe in the 16th, 17th, 18th centuries to the Americas and Australasia?
If you think it is, can you explain how so in your opinion?