• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
Not quite, I bought a company he (and other shareholders) bought from someone else. The company (in the format he joined it) had been around since the 1800s.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. I thought you were telling another one of your patented ‘big I am’ porkies, it turns out you just don’t understand the term ‘self-made’
 
P.D. said:
Not sure I can agree with the university part, seems he's saying he wouldn't be able to get a grant for his costs anymore but he'd be eligible to receive the same loans as everyone else I'd expect.
Click to expand...

The Tory government would like to make Universities for the elite again. As it used to be 50+ years ago. Let the elite stay elite. It is at the heart of the Conservative movement which came into existance to 'conserve' wealth and power and stop change.

A promising student from a relatively humble family - Stammer had a nurse and tool maker as a mum and dad - may think, you know what I won't saddle myself with debt. I am smart I'll just go out and get a job. In which case he wouldn't have qualified as a lawyer etc. That is the reality. People around the world would (do) give their lives to access our education system. That everyone has access to higher education is a tribute to the UK. And the Tories wish to erode that. Lets cut ourselves off from the EU and international coorperation, and go back 100 years with toffs and skivvies. Which would you be?
 
AuroRaman said:
Oh I see. I thought you were telling another one of your patented ‘big I am’ porkies, it turns out you just don’t understand the term ‘self-made’
Click to expand...
I bought the company at market value with money I earned (and some from the bank). That is self-made. I think you're confusing the term with entrepreneur, which is why I refuted that part of @LutonSpurs post.
 
scaramanga said:
I bought the company at market value with money I earned (and some from the bank). That is self-made. I think you're confusing the term with entrepreneur, which is why I refuted that part of @LutonSpurs post.
Click to expand...

Mate. You’re a nepo-baby. There’s no shame in that, but considering your regressive and archaic views, it’s important to call that out when you’re trying to build your part up as some sort of bastion of knowledge of how the world works.
 
AuroRaman said:
Mate. You’re a nepo-baby. There’s no shame in that, but considering your regressive and archaic views, it’s important to call that out when you’re trying to build your part up as some sort of bastion of knowledge of how the world works.
Click to expand...
Explain please. What advantages have I received that anyone else wouldn't?
 
SpurMeUp said:
The Tory government would like to make Universities for the elite again. As it used to be 50+ years ago. Let the elite stay elite. It is at the heart of the Conservative movement which came into existance to 'conserve' wealth and power and stop change.

A promising student from a relatively humble family - Stammer had a nurse and tool maker as a mum and dad - may think, you know what I won't saddle myself with debt. I am smart I'll just go out and get a job. In which case he wouldn't have qualified as a lawyer etc. That is the reality. People around the world would (do) give their lives to access our education system. That everyone has access to higher education is a tribute to the UK. And the Tories wish to erode that. Lets cut ourselves off from the EU and international coorperation, and go back 100 years with toffs and skivvies. Which would you be?
Click to expand...

Didn't Starmer's dad actually own the tool-making business/factory? Sure I read a Morning Star piece about that.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The Tory government would like to make Universities for the elite again. As it used to be 50+ years ago. Let the elite stay elite. It is at the heart of the Conservative movement which came into existance to 'conserve' wealth and power and stop change.

A promising student from a relatively humble family - Stammer had a nurse and tool maker as a mum and dad - may think, you know what I won't saddle myself with debt. I am smart I'll just go out and get a job. In which case he wouldn't have qualified as a lawyer etc. That is the reality. People around the world would (do) give their lives to access our education system. That everyone has access to higher education is a tribute to the UK. And the Tories wish to erode that. Lets cut ourselves off from the EU and international coorperation, and go back 100 years with toffs and skivvies. Which would you be?
Click to expand...

It's not really binary though is it. I've said funding should be provided for some key subjects like medicine, nursing etc. Nothing wrong with people who don't want to saddle themselves with debt, many people would say that's a smart decision. It sounds like you're advocating that that a much larger proportion of people should be given grants. What criteria would you apply? How much funding do you provide and how will you pay for it? Tories actually had a good policy of allocating everyone a lifetime training allowance to reflect the different options available but think it died a death. Nothing wrong with going to uni but there's still a perception you're going to get a high paying job at the end of it when the reality is different.
 
P.D. said:
It's not really binary though is it. I've said funding should be provided for some key subjects like medicine, nursing etc. Nothing wrong with people who don't want to saddle themselves with debt, many people would say that's a smart decision. It sounds like you're advocating that that a much larger proportion of people should be given grants. What criteria would you apply? How much funding do you provide and how will you pay for it? Tories actually had a good policy of allocating everyone a lifetime training allowance to reflect the different options available but think it died a death. Nothing wrong with going to uni but there's still a perception you're going to get a high paying job at the end of it when the reality is different.
Click to expand...

What is not binary? Access to education? Rewind, you were commenting on Starmer talking about how he might not have attended university if he was graduating school today.

By all means invest into alternatives to university education that is more hands on. I don’t care if that is called university of something else. The premise of development through learning is the important bit. And resisting the Tory urge to separate people into an elite vs an underclass who do all the manual jobs.

Re. the cost, as someone once said, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
What is not binary? Access to education? Rewind, you were commenting on Starmer talking about how he might not have attended university if he was graduating school today.

By all means invest into alternatives to university education that is more hands on. I don’t care if that is called university of something else. The premise of development through learning is the important bit. And resisting the Tory urge to separate people into an elite vs an underclass who do all the manual jobs.

Re. the cost, as someone once said, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
Click to expand...

No I mean it doesn't mean you have to provide grants for everyone with certain backgrounds/circumstances or no-one. There's an inbetween model.

The problem with university funding is that the taxpayer is essentially subsidising something that many don't take up, you can say it's their fault but that's the reality of it.

We should be investing more in development, there's plenty of skilled jobs out there that don't require a degree but it's been rammed down our throats that it's essential to succeed in life when that's not the case although for the right person it can certainly help.
 
P.D. said:
No I mean it doesn't mean you have to provide grants for everyone with certain backgrounds/circumstances or no-one. There's an inbetween model.

The problem with university funding is that the taxpayer is essentially subsidising something that many don't take up, you can say it's their fault but that's the reality of it.

We should be investing more in development, there's plenty of skilled jobs out there that don't require a degree but it's been rammed down our throats that it's essential to succeed in life when that's not the case although for the right person it can certainly help.
Click to expand...

It depends how you view education. Is it about trying to maximise earnings? Or is it about civilising the population?

Having half your population educated to a higher level just makes a country a more enriched, critical and dynamic place.

Student loans are crap though. A graduate tax would be a better solution - i.e. graduates pay an extra 0.X% on income tax for 25-30 years, but have no debt (and no way for trust fund kids to avoid it).

The funding model needs to change (it's been screwed by fee levels not being linked to inflation). Currently universities make a loss on every UK student, which is why 25% and a rapidly increasing proportion of places are now reserved for overseas students.
 
P.D. said:
We should be investing more in development, there's plenty of skilled jobs out there that don't require a degree but it's been rammed down our throats that it's essential to succeed in life when that's not the case although for the right person it can certainly help.
Click to expand...

I agree here, I think the system needs an overhaul. Education split earlier so skill training becomes more accessible earlier to those where its clear that academia is not going to gain them their optimum outcome. The teach and test method is so outdated now IMO, the world's changed and the school system has stood still.

Given the skills early enough kids can leave school and get into work that benefits them from the off and benefits the industries that have shortfalls, I really think there is more joint up approaches out there.

And as you say, for those that want to go down the education till early adulthood, that would still exist. By that time those in skilled work.would have 3/4 years of earning and even further development on them and provide a more even society
 
Gutter Boy said:
It depends how you view education. Is it about trying to maximise earnings? Or is it about civilising the population?

Having half your population educated to a higher level just makes a country a more enriched, critical and dynamic place.

Student loans are crap though. A graduate tax would be a better solution - i.e. graduates pay an extra 0.X% on income tax for 25-30 years, but have no debt (and no way for trust fund kids to avoid it).

The funding model needs to change (it's been screwed by fee levels not being linked to inflation). Currently universities make a loss on every UK student, which is why 25% and a rapidly increasing proportion of places are now reserved for overseas students.
Click to expand...

And who decides this? Is someone with a degree in history benefitting the country more than an electrician for example? Is history a higher level than someone who has got all the electrical qualifications?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back