Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[scaramanga]

People have got fed up or society decaying as it’s been completely malnourished from any serious investment in public infrastructure for a long time now.

It’s been 13 years since the Tory’s told us to tighten our belts for the greater good of our future and in that time the country hasn’t made the grand recovery that was promised then. In recent years the state of the economy has only got worse.

If 13 years isn’t long enough how long must we wait? 25 years? 50?

Neoliberalism is a good idea. But it doesn’t work in practice!

Your post doesn't tally with reality.

The tax burden in this country is higher than at any time since WWII. The current government spunked more money on lockdowns than on any other project that I can find the cost of anywhere.

The problem isn't a lack of taxation or spending, the problem is that we're being constricted by too much of both.

 

[scaramanga]

Supranational issues require supranational bodies. There is a good article in the FT today about how the UK leaving the EU, and of course cross border threats such as the pandemic for example, have just pushed EU countries into closer cooperation across the board. Yes, sometimes a case can be made for overreach, an intrusion too far into national competencies, but the ECHR hardly falls into that category. The UK's gradual descent into illiberalism and its constant eroding of its own citizen's rights will not be corrected by this government. Would you trust them to enforce those same ECHR rights? fudge no. They will not police themselves, just you, unfortunately.

I'm fine with supranational oversight, just as long as we can change the rules to suit us whenever we want.

 

[scaramanga]

I think it’s more that people are fed up with a government that is so fundamentally inept at everything except corruption and fraud. if you want to talk about living off other peoples money there are no better examples than this government and their cronies. Eg nadine dorries, Michelle none, did Harding etc etc . The names I’ve mentioned are merely the tip of the ice berg. Look at those people who provided the barges or the asylum seeker hotels, ripping off the tax payer to the max with the aid or their Tory chums.

What proportion of the govt spend do you think that makes up? 0.001%? 0.01%? Probably not even that. Obviously that figure should be zero, but anyone looking to save money knows that you go for the biggest problems first as that's where you can make the greatest saving. All the time we're not drastically reducing spend on the NHS and the welfare state, we're touching up the chip on the skirting whilst the rain tinkles through the holes in the roof.

Don't kid yourself that the other lot will be any better. The last Labour govt did precisely the same thing - in fact I linked to it a few pages back the last time this was discussed. And the third largest UK party are hardly a wholesome example of above-board honesty.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

What proportion of the govt spend do you think that makes up? 0.001%? 0.01%? Probably not even that. Obviously that figure should be zero, but anyone looking to save money knows that you go for the biggest problems first as that's where you can make the greatest saving. All the time we're not drastically reducing spend on the NHS and the welfare state, we're touching up the chip on the skirting whilst the rain tinkles through the holes in the roof.

Don't kid yourself that the other lot will be any better. The last Labour govt did precisely the same thing - in fact I linked to it a few pages back the last time this was discussed. And the third largest UK party are hardly a wholesome example of above-board honesty.

All governments will have their flaws....I think we are just looking (hoping) for one that ticks some boxes rather than none.

 

[scaramanga]

All governments will have their flaws....I think we are just looking (hoping) for one that ticks some boxes rather than none.

They're both nanny state, tax and spend trots.

The economy's fudged until we get a real conservative party.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

They're both nanny state, tax and spend trots.

The economy's fudged until we get a real conservative party.

You're not listening. The conservatives have unticked all positive boxes and are well and truly near the bottom of ticking the negative boxes.

As for a 'real Conservative' party? Sorry, there are not even green shoots.

You can have your ideal, but you'll be a longtime waiting. In the meantime someone has to fill in the gap, and it ain't the current mob.

 

[scaramanga]

You're not listening. The conservatives have unticked all positive boxes and are well and truly near the bottom of ticking the negative boxes.

As for a 'real Conservative' party? Sorry, there are not even green shoots.

You can have your ideal, but you'll be a longtime waiting. In the meantime someone has to fill in the gap, and it ain't the current mob.

On one hand, we have a party that exists to do the right thing but is doing all the wrong things. On the other, we have a party that exists to do all the wrong things on behalf of trades unions and people with an IQ too low to deserve a vote.

Call me an optimist, but I'll take my chances with the party that does the right thing when getting it right over the one that has no plan to ever do the right thing.

 

[AuroRaman]

On one hand, we have a party that exists to do the right thing but is doing all the wrong things. On the other, we have a party that exists to do all the wrong things on behalf of trades unions and people with an IQ too low to deserve a vote.

Call me an optimist, but I'll take my chances with the party that does the right thing when getting it right over the one that has no plan to ever do the right thing.

You can’t accuse anyone of having an IQ too low to vote when you’re still bootlicking the lot that are literally pandering for the far right and inbred vote on a scale that has never been seen before. And if you can be optimistic they’ll ‘do the right thing’ after the last 13 years that has been served up.

 

[Rorschach]

On one hand, we have a party that exists to do the right thing but is doing all the wrong things. On the other, we have a party that exists to do all the wrong things on behalf of trades unions and people with an IQ too low to deserve a vote.

Call me an optimist, but I'll take my chances with the party that does the right thing when getting it right over the one that has no plan to ever do the right thing.

Damn leopards

 

[thfcsteff]

On one hand, we have a party that exists to do the right thing but is doing all the wrong things. On the other, we have a party that exists to do all the wrong things on behalf of trades unions and people with an IQ too low to deserve a vote.

Call me an optimist, but I'll take my chances with the party that does the right thing when getting it right over the one that has no plan to ever do the right thing.

...the IQ/vote comment is the sort of brick I expect to hear from fascist dictators. No prices for guessing how I feel about them (and comments like that, which dearly leave me hoping you're trolling people like me, a far more preferrable outcome than you actually believing what you're spouting).

 

[thfcsteff]

Your post doesn't tally with reality.

The tax burden in this country is higher than at any time since WWII. The current government spunked more money on lockdowns than on any other project that I can find the cost of anywhere.

The problem isn't a lack of taxation or spending, the problem is that we're being constricted by too much of both.

And WHY do you think that is?! Come on...

 

[thfcsteff]

What proportion of the govt spend do you think that makes up? 0.001%? 0.01%? Probably not even that. Obviously that figure should be zero, but anyone looking to save money knows that you go for the biggest problems first as that's where you can make the greatest saving. All the time we're not drastically reducing spend on the NHS and the welfare state, we're touching up the chip on the skirting whilst the rain tinkles through the holes in the roof.

Don't kid yourself that the other lot will be any better. The last Labour govt did precisely the same thing - in fact I linked to it a few pages back the last time this was discussed. And the third largest UK party are hardly a wholesome example of above-board honesty.

This lot of crooks spend increasing billions in the NHS on bricky not-fit-for-purpose private contractors (I wouldn't dare offer my views as to why but you can guess) for not only short-term 'gain' but the long-term objective of privitising the NHS (again for obvious reasons). They are investing not in one of the greatest healthcare systems ever conceived, but in its eventual destruction...a destruction which will end up benefitting the few rather than the many.

 

[Mikey10]

...the IQ/vote comment is the sort of brick I expect to hear from fascist dictators. No prices for guessing how I feel about them (and comments like that, which dearly leave me hoping you're trolling people like me

Aaaaaaaaand you’ve hit the bullseye!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

The Tories have to be smashed, they need to be obliterated. They need to feel real electoral pain for what they have done.

 

[Craig_J]

Your post doesn't tally with reality.

The tax burden in this country is higher than at any time since WWII. The current government spunked more money on lockdowns than on any other project that I can find the cost of anywhere.

The problem isn't a lack of taxation or spending, the problem is that we're being constricted by too much of both.

As if we’re the only country who had lockdowns. Plenty of other countries did and many of their economies are still far ahead of us.

Our economy was already fudged before that. It was for years before Covid or lockdowns were ever envisaged.

Where are our trade deals with America and China? Where’s Britain standing on its own two feet now it’s separated from the shackles of the EU?!

It’s amazing how poorly neoliberalism performs when, unlike when Thatcher was in power, we don’t have a once in a lifetime sale of publicly owned infrastructure (transport, gas, electric) to artificially prop up the economy and make it appear better than it actually is.

Then you get to see the reality of neoliberalism. Stagnation, poverty and decay of society as a result of chronic underinvestment in society.

The only way to restart growth is to invest!

 

[scaramanga]

As if we’re the only country who had lockdowns. Plenty of other countries did and many of their economies are still far ahead of us.

At the risk of sounding like a clichéd parent, it's ok to do something stupid because lots of other people did?

Our economy was already fudged before that. It was for years before Covid or lockdowns were ever envisaged.

Yes, we've been printing/spending money like it's going out of fashion for 15 years now. It has to stop.

Where are our trade deals with America and China? Where’s Britain standing on its own two feet now it’s separated from the shackles of the EU?!

What's that got to do with spending too much money? What an intelligent govt would be doing right now is competing with Europe for trade by undercutting them on tax.

It’s amazing how poorly neoliberalism performs when, unlike when Thatcher was in power, we don’t have a once in a lifetime sale of publicly owned infrastructure (transport, gas, electric) to artificially prop up the economy and make it appear better than it actually is.

Then you get to see the reality of neoliberalism. Stagnation, poverty and decay of society as a result of chronic underinvestment in society.

The only way to restart growth is to invest!

The economy was doing incredibly well anyway and that first comment just shows how poorly leftists understand economics.

The economy was successful because we removed the millstones of publicly provided services, not because of the one-off cash injections. Selling off public services can create an income but it's still a net benefit even if they're given away for nothing. Not having to prop up a dying mining industry saves money every year forever.

There's plenty of investment that can be made in the economy (real investment, not the Labour, employing more nurses "investment"), we just need to stop strangling businesses and let them do what they're good at.

 

[AuroRaman]

One of the many privatisation success stories in this country. All that money saved. Take that Europe.

https://x.com/bylinetimes/status/1692802744166347200?s=46

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

One of the many privatisation success stories in this country. All that money saved. Take that Europe.

https://x.com/bylinetimes/status/1692802744166347200?s=46

It a fudging joke. Southern Water are clams.

Have we, the public, slept walked into this?

Services of all types are deteriorating, how high is the apathy threshold in this country?
Are we too distracted or something? Have we been divided? Or lost the ability to collectively come together? Come out from behind our smartphones?

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

What proportion of the govt spend do you think that makes up? 0.001%? 0.01%? Probably not even that. Obviously that figure should be zero, but anyone looking to save money knows that you go for the biggest problems first as that's where you can make the greatest saving. All the time we're not drastically reducing spend on the NHS and the welfare state, we're touching up the chip on the skirting whilst the rain tinkles through the holes in the roof.

Don't kid yourself that the other lot will be any better. The last Labour govt did precisely the same thing - in fact I linked to it a few pages back the last time this was discussed. And the third largest UK party are hardly a wholesome example of above-board honesty.

Not sure if the validity of the figure in this image but it’s a lot bigger than a fraction of a percentage.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

Government investment is required to drive the economy, without it there can be no economic growth. This is why it’s counterintuitive to slash investment.
The tax burden has grown exponentially through Tory mismanagement of the public sector and because the richest parts of society I.e the corporate giants and. Oligarchs avoid paying any tax at all (and even get rebates on tax they haven’t paid) while the rest of society is left to shoulder their burden.
Privatisation of the public sector has been an undeniable failure in every instance eg rail, utilities, Royal Mail and the nhs. I’ve worked extensively across both the public and private sectors and I can feel you categorically that the myth that the private sector is somehow the benchmark for economy efficiency and effectiveness vs the public sector is absolutely laughable nonsense.
Getting rid of the nhs will only make low productivity in this country much worse due to increased sickness absences.
none of the Tory policies make any sense unless you are a member of the 1% exploiting the rest of society, so your statement that they are the party that is “looking to do the right thing” is utterly misguided nonsense.