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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

P.D. said:
No I mean it doesn't mean you have to provide grants for everyone with certain backgrounds/circumstances or no-one. There's an inbetween model.

The problem with university funding is that the taxpayer is essentially subsidising something that many don't take up, you can say it's their fault but that's the reality of it.

We should be investing more in development, there's plenty of skilled jobs out there that don't require a degree but it's been rammed down our throats that it's essential to succeed in life when that's not the case although for the right person it can certainly help.
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Lost me in the first bit. We don't provide grants for certain backgrounds or no-one. We provide loans for anyone that needs one.

Your second point - most government spending is the same. The whole population don't access benifits, does that mean you stop them? Scara pays for private education, others get public education paid for. Unfair? In fact there is a (strong) argument for funding further and higher education for anyone that wants it. People tend to use their knowledge to benifit the economy, leading to increased taxes, possibily exports too. But as @Gutter Boy says it is not just about money. Its about enriching lives. Stimulating knowledge.

No problem with your third point. We should be investing more in training people. Absolutely. The Conservates could have at any time over the past decade invested in better skills education programmes. They haven't. Again does it matter what the course is called to you? Nurses go to University now. You have a problem with that?
 
scaramanga said:
I had expected better than willful ignorance from you. I guess everyone can surprise at times.
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There’s nothing more I needed to highlight after my initial post to you. You did that for me so perfectly. Take the exit route Nepo Dave, I’m being nice ;)
 
P.D. said:
And who decides this? Is someone with a degree in history benefitting the country more than an electrician for example? Is history a higher level than someone who has got all the electrical qualifications?
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Ask the leader of the free world (Joe Biden).

Critical thinking will always been the skill that enables people to thrive in any situation, whereas technical knowledge can become completely obsolete overnight.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Ask the leader of the free world (Joe Biden).

Critical thinking will always been the skill that enables people to thrive in any situation, whereas technical knowledge can become completely obsolete overnight.
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Technical skills rarely become obsolete overnight and even if there is a threat I would argue that the capability to learn the original skill provides the basis for that person to adapt their skills.

I would love to see skills and learning adapted to regions. I'm not sure kids in the most impoverish areas of the country benefit from key stage 2 and 3 foreign languages where as maybe computer and modern social skills (cooking, food, money management, job related) would be more beneficial and maybe hook more kids to wanna learn those skills than areas that are redundant to that area.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Technical skills rarely become obsolete overnight and even if there is a threat I would argue that the capability to learn the original skill provides the basis for that person to adapt their skills.

I would love to see skills and learning adapted to regions. I'm not sure kids in the most impoverish areas of the country benefit from key stage 2 and 3 foreign languages where as maybe computer and modern social skills (cooking, food, money management, job related) would be more beneficial and maybe hook more kids to wanna learn those skills than areas that are redundant to that area.
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Ability has nothing to do with opportunity. Why deny the 50% in those areas that are capable of achieving higher education that privilege/opportunity for service?
 
Gutter Boy said:
Ability has nothing to do with opportunity. Why deny the 50% in those areas that are capable of achieving higher education that privilege/opportunity for service?
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Why not design a curriculum that provides both? My school had 5 ability groups to each year...if we got with the modern world, adapt out of date archaic thinking we could benefit both ends of society. I don't think it's a complex of impossible as it's sometimes made out.

The benefit later down the line, in terms of social and local economic issues pays itself forward.

All people learn and have abilities of varying levels, current curriculums don't cater for them all, bot even to a fair level or spread
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Anything based on machinery or ICT systems.

The gas fitters of today are all about to become the coal miners of the 80s if they don't completely retrain from scratch as heat pump fitters.
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My mates done it already and actually got a grant even though he is self employed, the skills were hugely transferable and he said it was easy. Which is the point to having a level of base skills.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Anything based on machinery or ICT systems.

The gas fitters of today are all about to become the coal miners of the 80s if they don't completely retrain from scratch as heat pump fitters.
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So is that the best your "critical thinking" can come up?
The new coal plants being built, the ones being re opened, are they all burning pixie dust?
The north sea fields that are about to be granted licences are they drilling for unicorn breath.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Why not design a curriculum that provides both? My school had 5 ability groups to each year...if we got with the modern world and adapt and out of archaic thinking we could benefit both ends of society. I actually don't think it's a complex of impossible as it's sometimes made out.

The benefit later down the line in terms of social and local economic issues in itself pays itself forward.

All people learn and have abilities of varying levels, current curriculums don't cater for them all, bot even to a fair level or spread
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I totally agree with setting/streaming within subjects/year groups - top half lean more academic, bottom half more vocational. I thought that was quite widespread?

Michael Gove has killed schooling over the last decade - his curriculum design and rote learning approach has been a disaster. A lot of what universities do now, particularly in the first year, is just a catch-up on all the basics missed in schools.
 
glasgowspur said:
So is that the best your "critical thinking" can come up?
The new coal plants being built, the ones being re opened, are they all burning pixie dust?
The north sea fields that are about to be granted licences are they drilling for unicorn breath.
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That's just because we have a fossil fuel industry funded government at the moment. There's places like Uruguay already living in the future
 
Gutter Boy said:
That's just because we have a fossil fuel industry funded government at the moment. There's places like Uruguay already living in the future
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No it's not.
The technical aspects have not become obsolete, and certainly not overnight.
It will take decades to transition from our current energy systems to the newer ones.
How long do you think it take to replace every boiler in the country?
I''ll give clue, it's not overnight.
 
glasgowspur said:
No it's not.
The technical aspects have not become obsolete, and certainly not overnight.
It will take decades to transition from our current energy systems to the newer ones.
How long do you think it take to replace every boiler in the country?
I''ll give clue, it's not overnight.
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Instillation of new gas boilers is banned from 2025 (new build) and 2035 (all other properties), so there is a cliff edge for that industry. Modern ones have a lifespan of 8-10 years, so even servicing isn't going to last long, even if there's isn't a pro-active scrappage programme.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Instillation of new gas boilers is banned from 2025 (new build) and 2035 (all other properties), so there is a cliff edge for that industry. Modern ones have a lifespan of 8-10 years, so even servicing isn't going to last long, even if there's isn't a pro-active scrappage programme.
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That's a huge opportunity though, the sheer volume of people likely to need new or adapted means its a live industry to train for, get in, get paid, retrain....
 
Gutter Boy said:
Instillation of new gas boilers is banned from 2025 (new build) and 2035 (all other properties), so there is a cliff edge for that industry. Modern ones have a lifespan of 8-10 years, so even servicing isn't going to last long, even if there's isn't a pro-active scrappage programme.
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So 2035 + 10 tears (BTW I have a 10 year gas boiler that's never missed a beat and is no more polluting than it was when it was installed) is 23 years, minimum.
If that's the "critical thinking skills" you get with a degree I'd ask for a refund.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Instillation of new gas boilers is banned from 2025 (new build) and 2035 (all other properties), so there is a cliff edge for that industry. Modern ones have a lifespan of 8-10 years, so even servicing isn't going to last long, even if there's isn't a pro-active scrappage programme.
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They all need to re-train to become installers of air-con units, as my plumber has.
 
Mikey10 said:
They all need to re-train to become installers of air-con units, as my plumber has.
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Aircon and heat pumps are more or less the same devices, and often they are the actual same device just run in reverse. It is easy enough to retrain for installing heat pumps and they are far simpler to install than a boiler in fact. Gas/oil boilers are a dead end and the sooner they fudge off the better, but a plumber is not a job that will disappear even if domestic boilers do. They have more than one arrow in the quiver.

A good example of an industry in the energy sector that could pivot is fracking. It is an industry on the decline but those engineers/technicians that bore the holes could use their skills for enhanced geothermal, an industry that is in its infancy.
 
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glasgowspur said:
So 2035 + 10 tears (BTW I have a 10 year gas boiler that's never missed a beat and is no more polluting than it was when it was installed) is 23 years, minimum.
If that's the "critical thinking skills" you get with a degree I'd ask for a refund.
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We won't be burning gas in 23 years for one reason or another.
 
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