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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Baleforce said:
eh?

It’s plumbing, still plenty of water pipes, and load of industry use not specific to heating
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Apparently a lot of heat pumps is building additional external walls, effectively second skins for the building. It's quite multifaceted; quite different to just plumbing.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Apparently a lot of heat pumps is building additional external walls, effectively second skins for the building. It's quite multifaceted; quite different to just plumbing.
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And taking us further away from your initial statement, name a technical knowledge that has become obselete overnight.
 
Rorschach said:
Not quite getting you.
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Gutter Boy made a statement basically saying that higher education is better than techinal knowledge because technical knowledge can become obselete overnight.
I asked him to name one.
Coal mining, which apparently became obselete in the 80s, and gas fitters were his answer.
I called him on that.
He gave his reasoning, I pointed out that his reasoning actually highlighted that it will be at least 23 years and not overnight.
He has now tried to move the argument to green issues rather than address the point.
 
Rorschach said:
Ok now I get you.
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I really shouldn't get involved because I become quite pedantic, I know what people are trying to say, but what they are actually saying is quite different and it bugs the hell out of me.
I actually enjoy reading most of gb more whimsical posts and don't like the derision he gets elsewhere, but as I said stuff like this gets to me ;).
Probably says more about me than them gb, but hey ho.​
 
Gutter Boy said:
External wall insulation - where it's fixed on outside the bricks/stone.
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OK I see where you are going with that. It is not unrelated I guess but not specific to heat pump installations. The heat loss (HLI) of a property determines how cost-efficient running a heat pump will be.
 
Rorschach said:
OK I see where you are going with that. It is not unrelated I guess but not specific to heat pump installations. The heat loss (HLI) of a property determines how cost-efficient running a heat pump will be.
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But if/when heat pumps become the only option, the vast majority of UK houses are way too drafty (by original design) to operate without extensive new external insulation. So that will be the bulk of the retrofitting, not swapping boilers and radiators for the fan things.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But if/when heat pumps become the only option, the vast majority of UK houses are way too drafty (by original design) to operate without extensive new external insulation. So that will be the bulk of the retrofitting, not swapping boilers and radiators for the fan things.
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Yeah the old housing stock is bricky but we are going off on a tangent here.
 
glasgowspur said:
Gutter Boy made a statement basically saying that higher education is better than techinal knowledge because technical knowledge can become obselete overnight.
I asked him to name one.
Coal mining, which apparently became obselete in the 80s, and gas fitters were his answer.
I called him on that.
He gave his reasoning, I pointed out that his reasoning actually highlighted that it will be at least 23 years and not overnight.
He has now tried to move the argument to green issues rather than address the point.
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He's the thinking man's tabloid.:)
 
Gutter Boy said:
But if/when heat pumps become the only option, the vast majority of UK houses are way too drafty (by original design) to operate without extensive new external insulation. So that will be the bulk of the retrofitting, not swapping boilers and radiators for the fan things.
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When will heat pumps become the only option?

We've barely began the electric boiler installations.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
When will heat pumps become the only option?

We've barely began the electric boiler installations.
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What are electric boilers?

edit: Never mind I Googled it. I've been in the energy industry for 10 years (part-time now) and have never seen one, nor even heard of one before. And it seems to be because they are too expensive to run.

Heat pumps are not the only option but are certainly the best. They are electric boilers of a sort. The barrier is the capital outlay mostly but the prices are dropping and will continue to.
 
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Rorschach said:
What are electric boilers?

edit: Never mind I Googled it. I've been in the energy industry for 10 years (part-time now) and have never seen one, nor even heard of one before. And it seems to be because they are too expensive to run.

Heat pumps are not the only option but are certainly the best. The are electric boilers of a sort. The barrier is the capital outlay mostly but the prices are dropping and will continue to.
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Electric boilers will replace gas boilers.
The reason they will is simple, it's the swap with the less friction (am talking replacing an existing gas boiler at end of life).

A slight irony is 30% of the UKs electricity is created from gas. So assuming the electric boiler consumes a fair amount of electricity, we'd better up our gas storage facilities to cope unless we can increase renewables to meet that change in the mid term.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Ask the leader of the free world (Joe Biden).

Critical thinking will always been the skill that enables people to thrive in any situation, whereas technical knowledge can become completely obsolete overnight.
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Critical thinking like the Tories and their Oxbridge education you mean. They all have great degrees yet don't seem to be able to thrive at all.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Lost me in the first bit. We don't provide grants for certain backgrounds or no-one. We provide loans for anyone that needs one.

Your second point - most government spending is the same. The whole population don't access benifits, does that mean you stop them? Scara pays for private education, others get public education paid for. Unfair? In fact there is a (strong) argument for funding further and higher education for anyone that wants it. People tend to use their knowledge to benifit the economy, leading to increased taxes, possibily exports too. But as @Gutter Boy says it is not just about money. Its about enriching lives. Stimulating knowledge.

No problem with your third point. We should be investing more in training people. Absolutely. The Conservates could have at any time over the past decade invested in better skills education programmes. They haven't. Again does it matter what the course is called to you? Nurses go to University now. You have a problem with that?
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The point is relating to the original article, Starmer saying he wouldn't be able to go to university now when in reality he could do but wanted to grab some headlines (which he has).

Benefits are essential for people to live, without them they wouldn't have a home, food, water etc. I don't think a degree provides the same minimum comfort levels. So we should fund degrees for anyone who wants it regardless of the subject is what you seem to be hinting at? How much does a degree cost - what 50K ish on average? What happens if you drop out or fail? I think some support should be provided for education whether that's a degree or something else but it needs to be made clear that a degree isn't the be all and end all unless you want to go into a specific field like medicine. I've met countless people in my career without a degree who have all managed just fine.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Electric boilers will replace gas boilers.
The reason they will is simple, it's the swap with the less friction (am talking replacing an existing gas boiler at end of life).

A slight irony is 30% of the UKs electricity is created from gas. So assuming the electric boiler consumes a fair amount of electricity, we'd better up our gas storage facilities to cope unless we can increase renewables to meet that change in the mid term.
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Well from what I am reading (today) I'm not too sure electric boilers will take much of the market share primarily for running cost reasons, but there are other cons too. One is that it seems to have a massive current draw so no other power-hungry appliances would be able to be on at the same time. The fact I've never stumbled across one is maybe not that surprising then considering. I'd bet on the heat pump being the electric boiler of choice because of the low running costs, but who knows?
 
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