Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[scaramanga]

I think they inherited Magna Carta (which actually has covered all of "torture, slavery, right to a fair trial and right to privacy" since 1215) through common law/their constitutions

I'm pretty sure they did. Seems as if their human rights are fairly well protected without recourse to the ECHR.

 

[scaramanga]

Because it is a European institution established by countries including GB after the war to protect it's citizens from the state? It is there, amongst other things, to protect citizens from torture, slavery, gives them a right to a fair trial and right to privacy.

All protections that are holding GB back of course. So let's chuck all that away to enable a venal, dishonest, free speech attacking, and self interested government to gas light it's citizens even more. Let's be like Russia and Belarus, the only countries in Europe not signed up to the convention. One thing that the Boris Johnson saga showed was how much of our constitution is at the whim of government and if the government doesn't respect it then there is little protection for the rest of us.

I have no idea what the Canadians and New Zealanders have in place, (although I am sure that their indigenous populations would love to have recourse to some of the legal protections the convention affords) but given that our freedoms are increasingly under threat from the Tory right I'd say the EHCR is pretty crucial. If it wasn't they would be so bothered about it

All of that is covered in the HRA.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Its a bit of a philosophical issue. English law had always been based on not having positive rights. I.e. everything is permitted except that that is expressedly forbidden. Thats much healthier than starting from a point of needing positive rights

And to be honest, until abortions are enshrined in human rights, they are pointless

 

[Diamond Lights]

legionannaire's disease on Bibby Stockholm.

Still, at least the right wing media will have something to shout about whilst ignoring the absolute state of everything in this country.

I am lucky enough to have private health cover through work. Can't get private appointments for months now because the NHS backlog now creaking into private sector.

this is what the general right wing nuts dont understand, everyone loses out, even if you are privleged and earn well, with this govt in charge.

 

[Gutter Boy]

To be fair about every office in the country had legionannaire's issues after the lockdown, it's just a taps not being run thing.

 

[Robspur12]

To be fair about every office in the country had legionannaire's issues after the lockdown, it's just a taps not being run thing.

But it is a much bigger risk in vulnerable populations with weakened immune systems. Assuming that the asylum seekers are genuine, they are likely to be in poorer health than the general population because of the way they have lived and therefore more likely to develop legionella pneumonia. Which is why they have been evacuated I suspect.

It does however suggest that the water tanks have not been adequately maintained. Which doesn't surprise me when you don't really care about the occupants and are trying to house them as cheaply as possible.

 

[Lost Mango]

(Private Eye)

 

[Robspur12]

View attachment 15843
(Private Eye)

I don't understand why it is so expensive in itself? The barge that is not the Disney cruise.

 

[markysimmo]

I don't understand why it is so expensive in itself? The barge that is not the Disney cruise.

No doubt so many with their noses in the trough

 

[monkeybarry]

No doubt so many with their noses in the trough

A combination of that and inflated costs to create a negative narrative.
It's a creeping narrative:
Send migrants to Africa for processing!! Wait, that's really expensive.
Put them on a barge! Wait, that's really expensive.

Move the argument away from morality and to money and you'll get more people in favour of harder measures to stop the "problem" to start with.
Sound familiar? It'll be brick moustaches and side partings next

 

[Gutter Boy]

 

[Baleforce]

That’s not right, it’s not the people pushing down on refugees, it’s the Tories using them as a prop.

And I don’t think Murdoch is forcing the right wingers, they are hand in hand.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

All of that is covered in the HRA.

Because it currently enforces compliance with the echr. If the government is looking to remove the restrictions of the echr then they are hardly going to leave the hra un amended.

leaving the echr would be an economic disaster (it would impact our already weak trade relationships with first world countries).
It would also be an utter disaster for human rights in this country.

we can’t let these corrupt venal and incompetent clams anywhere near it.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

It doesn't matter what the rights themselves are, the concept of a supranational body to make judgement on them is the issue.

That's especially so when that body does nothing to protect people from actual, real breaches of those rights. See below:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jun/29/transport.eu

Actual real breaches of their human rights??? Are you taking the tinkle?? These clams broke the law and deserve to be punished, good job ECHR!

 

[Craig_J]

That’s not right, it’s not the people pushing down on refugees, it’s the Tories using them as a prop.

And I don’t think Murdoch is forcing the right wingers, they are hand in hand.

Murdoch never invented right wing politics but him and his rags all over the globe have polluted the anglosphere, and consequently the rest of the world, for decades.

I know so many otherwise smart people who believe in Murdoch propagated tropes - even when it goes against the grain of the rest of their personality and beliefs.

Heck, if I dig deep enough I’m sure there’s bound to be some I believe in as well.

When a single individual dominates the worlds media so much you can’t help but absorb them, even unconsciously.

It shapes beliefs, shapes people, shapes nations.

 

[Grays_1890]

Murdoch never invented right wing politics but him and his rags all over the globe have polluted the anglosphere, and consequently the rest of the world, for decades.

I know so many otherwise smart people who believe in Murdoch propagated tropes - even when it goes against the grain of the rest of their personality and beliefs.

Heck, if I dig deep enough I’m sure there’s bound to be some I believe in as well.

When a single individual dominates the worlds media so much you can’t help but absorb them, even unconsciously.

It shapes beliefs, shapes people, shapes nations.

Controversy sells, he has capitalised on that and human naivety in order to do it.

We are seeing that now in volume with social media, he started the fire, social media is the gasoline to keep it going.

I drone on about social media but the whole fact places like twitter, Instagram and YT are unregulated means that every day we see more lies and a growing band of the brainwashed. I honestly think social media will go a long way to providing a level of downfall in society, we already have seen a level of it IMO

 

[Craig_J]

Controversy sells, he has capitalised on that and human naivety in order to do it.

We are seeing that now in volume with social media, he started the fire, social media is the gasoline to keep it going.

I drone on about social media but the whole fact places like twitter, Instagram and YT are unregulated means that every day we see more lies and a growing band of the brainwashed. I honestly think social media will go a long way to providing a level of downfall in society, we already have seen a level of it IMO

Agree that controversy sells. I don't think Murdoch believes in the crap he likes his journalists to write.

I also don't believe the journalists themselves believe it, nor Trump. They just recognise it is their brand, their USP. That's why it's so over the top and outrageously biased 100% of the time.

 

[Grays_1890]

Agree that controversy sells. I don't think Murdoch believes in the crap he likes his journalists to write.

I also don't believe the journalists themselves believe it, nor Trump. They just recognise it is their brand, their USP. That's why it's so over the top and outrageously biased 100% of the time.

Exactly, and if the Farage banking scenario proved one thing is that controversy sells enough to get a Coutts account. That's why there are another 101 of them peddling crap on socials because its about he coin.

 

[scaramanga]

Actual real breaches of their human rights??? Are you taking the tinkle?? These clams broke the law and deserve to be punished, good job ECHR!

So you're happy that it's ok to force people to give evidence against themselves?

It doesn't matter if people are guilty or not, they're all entitled to a fair trial. No trial can be fair if a suspect doesn't have a right of silence. That's been a basic part of just about any set of human rights for centuries.

 

[scaramanga]

Because it currently enforces compliance with the echr. If the government is looking to remove the restrictions of the echr then they are hardly going to leave the hra un amended.

leaving the echr would be an economic disaster (it would impact our already weak trade relationships with first world countries).
It would also be an utter disaster for human rights in this country.

we can’t let these corrupt venal and incompetent clams anywhere near it.

Some parts of the ECHR don't fit with our society. Seeing as we can't change it, the only option is to leave.