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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
I detest Farage as much as the next man but how has this bank account story been allowed to garner so many column inches . Who gives a fudge.
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Especially given I suspect a large number of their customers are going to be equally or more detestable clams.

Bizarre given it turns out Coutts is just a rebranded Nat West account.
 
AuroRaman said:
I’m yet to meet one single person or anyone in the public eye that’s been cancelled for saying that.

On Farage; he’s once again played a blinder in stirring up controversy where there is little. It’s Coutts, of course they’re going to have a ‘type’ of customer that fits their criteria (I would be interested to know how many other unpalatable individuals they still have as customers though).

People get turned away from opening accounts for a myriad of logical or sometimes illogical reasons. I was inexplicably turned away from HSBC from opening a current account once. So I went down the high street and opened one with Halifax rather than having a public hissy fit about it. I suspect dear old Nige needs to keep himself in the news cycle. The global fame and fortune didn’t quite materialise as he privately thought ite would after Brexit.
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As I said the Farage story in itself does not bother me. But it where this all ends bothers me, being kicked out of a bank account because he holds certain views, views which a lot of people hold.

What happens in the future if we get a proper right wing government and they ban anyone from a bank account who has supported the illegal crossings of migrants, would that be right?

Part of me reasons for wanting out of the EU were and are because I don't like big government, I don't like people trying to control others and forcing them to think a certain way.

We may have different views on things but I would never want or force you to change your views. I sometimes winder where I fit on the political spectrum, truth is I think sometimes I'm one of the only true liberals because I don't care what other people think and think that everyone should be allowed to live as they want.

You not being able to get a bank account is also wrong. I believe in France it is the law that everyone is entitled to a current account. Should be the same here.

Banning people from things because you don't like the views is wrong and could lead us down a path I really don't like.
 
Rorschach said:
So you are for the prison ships I take it? No need to answer. I can guess. And don't be silly. Nobody is going into them by choice.

Would it surprise you to know that you are overpaying for them too. If you want to know where your taxes are going I'd say making another tory rich is the likely answer. You must be enraged that this keeps happening, over and over.
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Not really.

If you want the shortish version of a longish answer, I not a fan of borders at all. I think goods, services, people, etc should be free to move wherever they like. But you can't have both free movement and a welfare state, one has to give. Assuming the govt aren't going to do anything sensible about spending in the near future, then borders have to exist.

I also think we should do our fair bit with regard to refugees - every comparatively wealthy nation should. But Calais is not a war-torn hell hole full of persecution. It's a brickhole, granted but we owe people in France nothing in terms of protection.
 
richie_spur said:
Especially given I suspect a large number of their customers are going to be equally or more detestable clams.

Bizarre given it turns out Coutts is just a rebranded Nat West account.
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NatWest private banking gives you pretty much everything a Coutts account does, except the Coutts card, for significantly less in fees too.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
As I said the Farage story in itself does not bother me. But it where this all ends bothers me, being kicked out of a bank account because he holds certain views, views which a lot of people hold.

What happens in the future if we get a proper right wing government and they ban anyone from a bank account who has supported the illegal crossings of migrants, would that be right?

Part of me reasons for wanting out of the EU were and are because I don't like big government, I don't like people trying to control others and forcing them to think a certain way.

We may have different views on things but I would never want or force you to change your views. I sometimes winder where I fit on the political spectrum, truth is I think sometimes I'm one of the only true liberals because I don't care what other people think and think that everyone should be allowed to live as they want.

You not being able to get a bank account is also wrong. I believe in France it is the law that everyone is entitled to a current account. Should be the same here.

Banning people from things because you don't like the views is wrong and could lead us down a path I really don't like.
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I agree with all of that.

It doesn’t change my viewpoint that this is a complete non-issue compared to literally everything else that is happening in the UK at the moment. Farage hasn’t been banned from opening a bank account. He simply didn’t meet the criteria to continue with one particular bank after his mortgage had been repaid, his lack of funds and wrongly, future brand/commercial suitability.

The fact that he’s stated he’s going on a crusade with his fake man of the people schtick despite receiving an apology showcases that he is indeed a ‘disingenuous grifter’. It’s also welcome (cynical) timing for the government and his employers at GB News/Murdoch who are dealing with an incoming Dan Wooton scandal. I did also laugh that he’s making himself a victim of a ‘vile attack’ and essentially describing his whole political remit against others without any irony or awareness.

Ultimately, you’re right in principal. I just don’t think we should be getting sucked in to this non-story. It makes fools of all of us. I’ll bow out now as for someone who said I won’t lose any sleep over it, I’ve made too many posts on that weasel already.
 
AuroRaman said:
I agree with all of that.

It doesn’t change my viewpoint that this is a complete non-issue compared to literally everything else that is happening in the UK at the moment. Farage hasn’t been banned from opening a bank account. He simply didn’t meet the criteria to continue with one particular bank after his mortgage had been repaid, his lack of funds and wrongly, future brand/commercial suitability.

The fact that he’s stated he’s going on a crusade with his fake man of the people schtick despite receiving an apology showcases that he is indeed a ‘disingenuous grifter’. It’s also welcome (cynical) timing for the government and his employers at GB News/Murdoch who are dealing with an incoming Dan Wooton scandal. I did also laugh that he’s making himself a victim of a ‘vile attack’ and essentially describing his whole political remit against others without any irony or awareness.

Ultimately, you’re right in principal. I just don’t think we should be getting sucked in to this non-story. It makes fools of all of us. I’ll bow out now as for someone who said I won’t lose any sleep over it, I’ve made too many posts on that weasel already.
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Bank's are private companies. they can literally allow who they want to open accounts. Complete non-issue.
 
AuroRaman said:
I agree with all of that.

It doesn’t change my viewpoint that this is a complete non-issue compared to literally everything else that is happening in the UK at the moment. Farage hasn’t been banned from opening a bank account. He simply didn’t meet the criteria to continue with one particular bank after his mortgage had been repaid, his lack of funds and wrongly, future brand/commercial suitability.

The fact that he’s stated he’s going on a crusade with his fake man of the people schtick despite receiving an apology showcases that he is indeed a ‘disingenuous grifter’. It’s also welcome (cynical) timing for the government and his employers at GB News/Murdoch who are dealing with an incoming Dan Wooton scandal. I did also laugh that he’s making himself a victim of a ‘vile attack’ and essentially describing his whole political remit against others without any irony or awareness.

Ultimately, you’re right in principal. I just don’t think we should be getting sucked in to this non-story. It makes fools of all of us. I’ll bow out now as for someone who said I won’t lose any sleep over it, I’ve made too many posts on that weasel already.
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Has he got a punchable face though? :)
 
If I didn't like someone and thought they had some extreme views and shady character traits, I'd quite happily allow them to bank with me.

If they're up to no good, taking them down would be easy with the inside track on all that financial data.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Bank's are private companies. they can literally allow who they want to open accounts. Complete non-issue.
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It’s not that anyone feels sorry for Farage, I certainly don’t. It’s more the principle of excluding someone because of their political views and I’m against any form of censoring for want of a better word. If they had done the same to Jeremy Corbyn I’d be just as weary of it.
 
SpurMeUp said:
What are these easy wins?
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House of Lords reform
Grants for nurses
Update of EU deal
Onshore wind
More council / social housing
Reform of Bank of England remit
School breakfast clubs
Increased state aid for key industries like giga factories, manufacturing of renewables
More nuclear power
Good Friday agreement - recognise non republican or unionist parties
Sort out immigration backlog (and policy)
Become crypto / digital asset friendly
Legalise weed
Increase apprenticeships

That's just to start - plenty more for them to do beyond that. Depends on your priorities of course.
 
P.D. said:
House of Lords reform
Grants for nurses
Update of EU deal
Onshore wind
More council / social housing
Reform of Bank of England remit
School breakfast clubs
Increased state aid for key industries like giga factories, manufacturing of renewables
More nuclear power
Good Friday agreement - recognise non republican or unionist parties
Sort out immigration backlog (and policy)
Become crypto / digital asset friendly
Legalise weed
Increase apprenticeships

That's just to start - plenty more for them to do beyond that. Depends on your priorities of course.
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Interesting list.

What is your logic for updating HoL? I actually think it produces quite considered effective debate - if you actually take the time to see what they really do. I would recommend it. Not being directly elected offers a more considered long-term approach.

The EU deal is ongoing I am afraid. It will never be finished, just an ongoing thing we have to mess around with year in and out. It is not static. The EU is not static, and we have to align to trade etc etc

Onshore wind I will give you - that is relatively easy. Someone has to pay for it. But it is a win.

Housing requires money and land. Not sure we have a lot of either. Its not an easy one that is for sure.

What do you want the BoE to do and why?

School breakfast clubs sounds good. Have to pay for it, but in the grand scheme of things wouldn't be crazy money. Okay an easy win.

Rishi just spent half a billion of our money on a gigafactory. A lot of cash.

Nuclear power plants cost many many billions. To build the new ones and decomission the old ones. Not an easy win as the costs are so great. We also don't have the knowledge here. We need French or Chinese assistance. And we've gone cold on the Chinese recently.

Immigration is an easy win is it!? I think you've undermined your own argument in one! Where to start? Where to end? Immigration is here to stay, there isn't an easy win or way to address sadly.

To say the Ireland and Good Friday is an easy thing to address shows a lack of understanding. The worlds best minds have tried to address, but you are going to pizz off someone whatever you do.

Crypto = no taxes? Or you'd regulate it? And then what do you have? The same as now, just a less environmentally friendly way to exchange goods. Most transactions are digital anyway now. Not an easy one sorry.

Why stop at weed? I agree in principle there is an easy win. But to get legalisation of drugs through the people and establishment is not easy at all. Extrememely hard. So no easy win here sadly, tho the policy should be an easy win. Just ask Portugal.

Apprenticeships have both exploded and degraded. Not many are where an individual learns a trade from an experienced professional, in the traditional sense. Instead it is used by companies to pay kids less, and the training component is often rubbish run by private entities who could not care less about education or training, they are just in it for the profit. They don't understand the industry they are supporting, or how people learn. Whilst there are many good apprenticeships, there are more that are failing and not helping people as much as they could. Just adding more is missing the point. So I wouldn't say this is not a gimme either.


Onshore Wind and Breakfast clubs are possibly less challenging. But even these need funding setting up and care and attention. Who will pay for them?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Interesting list.

What is your logic for updating HoL? I actually think it produces quite considered effective debate - if you actually take the time to see what they really do. I would recommend it. Not being directly elected offers a more considered long-term approach.

The EU deal is ongoing I am afraid. It will never be finished, just an ongoing thing we have to mess around with year in and out. It is not static. The EU is not static, and we have to align to trade etc etc

Onshore wind I will give you - that is relatively easy. Someone has to pay for it. But it is a win.

Housing requires money and land. Not sure we have a lot of either. Its not an easy one that is for sure.

What do you want the BoE to do and why?

School breakfast clubs sounds good. Have to pay for it, but in the grand scheme of things wouldn't be crazy money. Okay an easy win.

Rishi just spent half a billion of our money on a gigafactory. A lot of cash.

Nuclear power plants cost many many billions. To build the new ones and decomission the old ones. Not an easy win as the costs are so great. We also don't have the knowledge here. We need French or Chinese assistance. And we've gone cold on the Chinese recently.

Immigration is an easy win is it!? I think you've undermined your own argument in one! Where to start? Where to end? Immigration is here to stay, there isn't an easy win or way to address sadly.

To say the Ireland and Good Friday is an easy thing to address shows a lack of understanding. The worlds best minds have tried to address, but you are going to pizz off someone whatever you do.

Crypto = no taxes? Or you'd regulate it? And then what do you have? The same as now, just a less environmentally friendly way to exchange goods. Most transactions are digital anyway now. Not an easy one sorry.

Why stop at weed? I agree in principle there is an easy win. But to get legalisation of drugs through the people and establishment is not easy at all. Extrememely hard. So no easy win here sadly, tho the policy should be an easy win. Just ask Portugal.

Apprenticeships have both exploded and degraded. Not many are where an individual learns a trade from an experienced professional, in the traditional sense. Instead it is used by companies to pay kids less, and the training component is often rubbish run by private entities who could not care less about education or training, they are just in it for the profit. They don't understand the industry they are supporting, or how people learn. Whilst there are many good apprenticeships, there are more that are failing and not helping people as much as they could. Just adding more is missing the point. So I wouldn't say this is not a gimme either.


Onshore Wind and Breakfast clubs are possibly less challenging. But even these need funding setting up and care and attention. Who will pay for them?
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All governments find money for things that suit them and Labour will be no different, they might talk everything down now but when the time comes some will be found. I don't think these things are that difficult, a government can legislate to do whatever it wants so it's more a matter of priority and how strong they want to be. As to some of your questions:

HOL - no term limit, minimum appearances, opaque nomination process
Nuclear - how do you think France and China got the knowledge, with time and investment. Once there it can also be exported, similarly with renewables
EU - deal is up for review in 2025 anyway, EU say they're too busy but everyone knows its posturing especially if Labour are in
Crypto - most of it is hype but it's still a new industry that will have a future in some form. Regulation and the right tax setup can help attract firms set up camp here like we did with computer game developers. Big opportunity with the US being so anti it.
NI - I don't believe anyone has tried to do a thing other than mediate over whatever is already in place. The Alliance party are growing but can only grow so far because either party has a veto over everything which made sense 25 years ago but less so now
BOE - mainly just look at inflation and price stability, not enough focus on growth, debt etc. Again remit was set 25 years ago, it's due a review. Whole use of GDP as growth measurement needs a review at the same time

They could also save a good 20bn by doing the obvious and relocating parliament elsewhere permanently.
 
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