Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[scaramanga]

This precrime flimflam could be spun into swathes of political capital but they are running from it, and seamlessly adopting the right-wing framing of the events.

That bodes well for Starmer's ability to think long term and not just getting over the hurdle.

If his lot are the next government then dealing with protestor clams will become his problem. Better to stay quiet and let the Conservatives take all the flak for the good work they're doing. Much like how Blair benefited from the work the Conservatives did to reign in the union clams.

 

[scaramanga]

Conservatives being good custodians of the economy is a myth that is finally being exposed for the nonsense it is. If some voters are still too myopic to see that now then they never will.

This lot, yes - they're fudging terrible.

But all the time Labour keep telling the world they'd be taxing more, everyone knows the Conservatives are the least bad option.

 

[Rorschach]

That bodes well for Starmer's ability to think long term and not just getting over the hurdle.

If his lot are the next government then dealing with protestor clams will become his problem. Better to stay quiet and let the Conservatives take all the flak for the good work they're doing. Much like how Blair benefited from the work the Conservatives did to reign in the union clams.

Ah, there he is.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Winning elections is not that simple. If you demotivate your own base in order to fish for so called 'moderate' votes you are dead in the water. Attacking the tories on their record is about as easy as it gets. There is no need for labour to trend too far right.

For example, the largely negative press around the unwarranted arrests yesterday for the coronation is political gold. This precrime flimflam could be spun into swathes of political capital but they are running from it, and seamlessly adopting the right-wing framing of the events. It is the left's natural inclination to adopt a defensive posture in order not to alienate mythical swing voters but far better to call this out for what it is, a criminalisation of protests.

There was a large amount of tactical voting in the local elections so drawing inferences from it for a general election is risky. Maybe labour will pivot if they get in, I hope they do both.

The context though is that Stamer is a republican. So he needed to be extra careful to avoid anything that would have ignited that particular right-wing stick to beat him with

 

[scaramanga]

Ah, there he is.

I have no issue with people caring about something enough to protest (although I find it somewhat pathetic), only inconveniencing others.

If they want to protest in Burnley or somewhere like that then go ahead. They shouldn't get in the way of real people when they do so.

 

[Rorschach]

The context though is that Stamer is a republican. So he needed to be extra careful to avoid anything that would have ignited that particular right-wing stick to beat him with

I'm beginning to doubt that. When your enemy is making mistakes, by all means, don't interrupt them. At the moment they are interrupting them and agreeing with them. I'm not sure this is a good idea. Yanking off your mask when you are in power assumes you get into power in the first place.

 

[Rorschach]

This lot, yes - they're fudging terrible.

But all the time Labour keep telling the world they'd be taxing more, everyone knows the Conservatives are the least bad option.

I agree the last 12-13 years have been one disaster after another with massive transfers of wealth into a tiny cohort at the top. But let's not look to the past. Let's give them another chance to prove that they really not operating a giant Ponzi scheme for their own benefit. That is the wise thing to do.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'm beginning to doubt that. When your enemy is making mistakes, by all means, don't interrupt them. At the moment they are interrupting them and agreeing with them. I'm not sure this is a good idea. Yanking off your mask when you are in power assumes you get into power in the first place.

Isn't it Tony Blair Ming vase territory now though?

 

[Rorschach]

Isn't it Tony Blair Ming vase territory now though?

That sounds interesting but I have no idea what it means.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That sounds interesting but I have no idea what it means.

In 1997, Roy Jenkins described Tony Blair’s task in delivering a Labour Government as “like a man carrying a priceless Ming vase across a highly polished floor.”

It basically means - the prize is in hand, just don't slip. Slow and steady.

 

[scaramanga]

I agree the last 12-13 years have been one disaster after another with massive transfers of wealth into a tiny cohort at the top. But let's not look to the past. Let's give them another chance to prove that they really not operating a giant Ponzi scheme for their own benefit. That is the wise thing to do.

It has been fun. I'm off to have more fun taxing some people.

Now you're sounding like that Grifter weirdo - did he lend you his tinfoil hat?

The govt were doing ok and moving taxation in the right direction (albeit far too slowly) until Johnson started spaffing our taxes up the wall.

This is the highest post war tax burden the country has ever faced. If redistribution is your aim, the govt isn't the problem.

 

[monkeybarry]

How many at the bottom end of the scale are reliable voters?

I suspect it's a far greater part of the actively voting electorate than it is a proportion of the country as a whole.

Don't forget that any figures like that will be well out of date by now. Wage inflation has been huge for the last couple of years. Plenty of people who didn't have to worry about Labour governments now do.

Do you have anything to back up income level significantly affecting the propensity to vote? Or is it just personal prejudice?

If you are correct re: income level, your point about the poor reliability of the "lower end" becomes contradictory.

Circa £32k is a 2020 figure. Average UK wage has not almost doubled since then. We'd have seen a booming society or hyperinflation if so.

Want to try again?

 

[Grays_1890]

Winning elections is not that simple. If you demotivate your own base in order to fish for so called 'moderate' votes you are dead in the water. Attacking the tories on their record is about as easy as it gets. There is no need for labour to trend too far right.

For example, the largely negative press around the unwarranted arrests yesterday for the coronation is political gold. This precrime flimflam could be spun into swathes of political capital but they are running from it, and seamlessly adopting the right-wing framing of the events. It is the left's natural inclination to adopt a defensive posture in order not to alienate mythical swing voters but far better to call this out for what it is, a criminalisation of protests.

There was a large amount of tactical voting in the local elections so drawing inferences from it for a general election is risky. Maybe labour will pivot if they get in, I hope they do both.

I think the Conservatives have done enough self harm that Labour will win the next election but they will still need to win those middling voters which was Corbyns kryptonite as he put too much emphasis on motivating his core and not sweeping the sceptics with him

Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk

 

[Rorschach]

Now you're sounding like that Grifter weirdo - did he lend you his tinfoil hat?

The govt were doing ok and moving taxation in the right direction (albeit far too slowly) until Johnson started spaffing our taxes up the wall.

This is the highest post war tax burden the country has ever faced. If redistribution is your aim, the govt isn't the problem.

Who's that? I was going for sounding like Moggy. Boris? Farage? Mone? Sunak? Which robbing bastard did I sound like?

They are good at redistribution all right. They take your money and redistribute it to their mates. Maybe you should protest.

 

[Rorschach]

I think the Conservatives have done enough self harm that Labour will win the next election but they will still need to win those middling voters which was Corbyns kryptonite as he put too much emphasis on motivating his core and not sweeping the sceptics with him

Sent from my SM-A127F using Fapatalk

Starmer is certainly not doing that. Quite the opposite, is my point. If those homeless Tories (there's an oxymoron) move to lib dem/green or such it might not be the worst outcome. A coalition with Labour might come with an electoral reform condition, which the UK badly needs at this point IMO.

 

[scaramanga]

Do you have anything to back up income level significantly affecting the propensity to vote? Or is it just personal prejudice?

If you are correct re: income level, your point about the poor reliability of the "lower end" becomes contradictory.

Circa £32k is a 2020 figure. Average UK wage has not almost doubled since then. We'd have seen a booming society or hyperinflation if so.

Want to try again?

There's strong correlation between age and voting, education and voting and home ownership and voting. All of which correlate with wealth and/or earnings.

The marginal tax rate at £50k for many is greater than at any other rate than from £100-125k. That's now the turning point from heart to head for many, and someone earning just over £40k 2 years ago with inflationary pay increases would now be in that bracket.

I doubt anyone has cut out the middle man and written a "Do poor people vote as much as rich people" paper as some would consider it insensitive.

Edit:
And in case you missed it, we are in the midst of ridiculous inflation and it's being perpetuated by wage demands.

 

[Baleforce]

There's strong correlation between age and voting, education and voting and home ownership and voting. All of which correlate with wealth and/or earnings.

The marginal tax rate at £50k for many is greater than at any other rate than from £100-125k. That's now the turning point from heart to head for many, and someone earning just over £40k 2 years ago with inflationary pay increases would now be in that bracket.

I doubt anyone has cut out the middle man and written a "Do poor people vote as much as rich people" paper as some would consider it insensitive.

Edit:
And in case you missed it, we are in the midst of ridiculous inflation and it's being perpetuated by wage demands.

personal experience only, but the older I get/more I earn/higher on the property ladder the less likely I am to vote Tory

They are the ones who have destroyed the economy, lowered living standards, dragged us out of the EU and treat anyone not born here as a parasite.

 

[scaramanga]

Who's that? I was going for sounding like Moggy. Boris? Farage? Mone? Sunak? Which robbing bastard did I sound like?

They are good at redistribution all right. They take your money and redistribute it to their mates. Maybe you should protest.

Grifter was some kind of conspiracy theorist here a few years ago that we had to get rid of due to his dangerous medical advice he kept giving out.

I'm sure some money has gone where it shouldn't have, that's why governments shouldn't pick winners. I'd be interested to see how that stands as a proportion of tax take though.

Let's say they've managed to hand out £1b in dodgy contracts to their mates for no return whatsoever (which is way over the top). That represents less than 0.1% of the tax take. That's not where the problems lie.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Grifter was some kind of conspiracy theorist here a few years ago that we had to get rid of due to his dangerous medical advice he kept giving out.

I'm sure some money has gone where it shouldn't have, that's why governments shouldn't pick winners. I'd be interested to see how that stands as a proportion of tax take though.

Let's say they've managed to hand out £1b in dodgy contracts to their mates for no return whatsoever (which is way over the top). That represents less than 0.1% of the tax take. That's not where the problems lie.

He was my favourite poster

 

[Baleforce]

Grifter was some kind of conspiracy theorist here a few years ago that we had to get rid of due to his dangerous medical advice he kept giving out.

I'm sure some money has gone where it shouldn't have, that's why governments shouldn't pick winners. I'd be interested to see how that stands as a proportion of tax take though.

Let's say they've managed to hand out £1b in dodgy contracts to their mates for no return whatsoever (which is way over the top). That represents less than 0.1% of the tax take. That's not where the problems lie.

wasn’t it gifter?

proper nutter