Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Seems to me that it was you who misconstrued what I posted, I think you probably did so deliberately as well to try to paint me as something that I am not. I think you owe me an apology to be honest.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I think a balance needs to be struck between certain factions on the left who would let everyone and anyone in and those on the right who would prefer if we didn’t take in any immigrants. Immigrants are a vital part of this country but a line does have to be drawn somewhere and both parties need to convey that they understand it can become an issue. As I’ve said, they are important, they do jobs that certain people think are beneath them. We should be flattered that people want to come to the UK but I do also feel it wouldn’t be unreasonable to look at sectors where we lack a particular skill set and look for people who can fill a void in that area.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
I genuinely can't be bothered to deconstruct the chain from Luton's post regarding the attack, to Lilbaz's response through to you having a little moment now. If you want to believe I'm doing something deliberately then that's on you, no apology forthcoming from my side as I have been very clear with my posts. I am having a little chuckle at your really bad attempt at gaslighting though.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Why do people actively wish to polarise? I don't get it. I am all for fighting for people's rights and equality. But trying to condemn someone on a message board, who's more or less on the same side, is churlish. Little different to a medieval witch hunt. Casually slinging around accusations is not cool! Fine, overprotect people's rights but don't label people unless there is justifable reason.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Think you have the horse before the cart.
Loose lending got people into homes they couldn't afford. Artificially low interest rates got people into homes they now can't afford.
People will borrow up to the max that they are allowed, they're not interested in stress testing their own mortgage. Politically it's beneficial to have people owning their own homes and an endless rising market. It makes the electorate feel good, increases their wealth via no effort whatsoever (thin air), facilitates MEW for lots of consumer economy spending.
The problem is (artificially) low interest rates put people's mortgages and in turn the banks balance sheets on life support (they're the one holding the real estate baby, ultimately). Nothing was allowed to fail. The pumped liquidity and zero interest rates encouraged even more lending and search for return and pumped up asset bubbles. Now everything, countries, companies and people are in a debt hole that are now vunerable to these kind of market forces. Interest rates are now pretty much in a range that previous common consensus WAS where they should be 4-5%. Low interest rates have become normalised BUT provide no downward wriggle room. For rates to go to 4% and catastrophe looms shows how bad the problem is.
The other problem facing the government is that 'not allowed to fail' landscape has filtered down to the general public. A combination of the government's bail out of the banks (and other companies) and the policy of loans, grants, handouts during the pandemic and beyond (some worthy/essential I may add)., has defaulted the government as lender of last resort. And let's face it it's not their money it'll all have to come from the taxpayer (eventually
). Market forces have to be allowed to direct and shake out the system, otherwise capitalism is dead (it probably is in it's current guise anyway). There's always winners and losers.And on that note please remember @Gutter Boy and @Rorschach there is two sides to the interest rate story, if you are to look at the interest rate to inflation overlay chart it has made tinkle poor reading for years for any savers. Should interest rates be kept at 2% while inflation erodes their wealth at 10%?
It's a fair question.
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Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
That's the work-visa scheme though (temporary or otherwise). I'm sure you are not really suggesting that we only grant refugee status to those with specific skills? Otherwise let's hope those asylum seekers remember to bring their educational or training qualification certificates with them as they flee.
Sorry, that is a bit facetious but I don't think anyone is saying we should let in "everyone and anyone".
It just seems that there is more focus on this now because people crossing the Channel in boats and coming ashore in Kent is far more visible than the days when air travel was an option (before the airlines were made responsible) or more recently travelling in the back of lorries (now more difficult due to the penalties imposed on the lorry owners and drivers), and that visibility is enabling, at best, political point-scoring and at worst, dangerous language that fuels hatred and plays on people's insecurities. All the while it is the most vulnerable who suffer.
But (and recognising it's a cop-out), I don't have a magic solution.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I don't think skills should come into immigration at all. I would base it on these principles instead (in ascending order):
1) Compassion - i.e. refugees
2) Love - i.e. spouses/close family members
3) Education and travel - i.e. university places and 6-24 month travel visas with reciprocating countries
And then cap at a number that causes a gradual net decline in population.
Get rid of big corporations importing cheap labour to undercut local pay and conditions, while avoiding investing in local skills, all together.
1) Compassion - i.e. refugees
2) Love - i.e. spouses/close family members
3) Education and travel - i.e. university places and 6-24 month travel visas with reciprocating countries
And then cap at a number that causes a gradual net decline in population.
Get rid of big corporations importing cheap labour to undercut local pay and conditions, while avoiding investing in local skills, all together.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
I assume this is about me? So if I’m discussing a terrorist attack with other posters, and if I state that extremism is the reason for a terrorist attack, and someone responds saying yes but also we need to control immigration. Do you not think it’s an acceptable thought process to assume that poster is lumping uncontrolled immigration as a reason for the attack? I haven’t condemned anyone, there is no witch hunt but an absolute 10/10 to you for being overly dramatic.
We’ve gone from a terrorist attack aimed at asylum seekers to a poster demanding an apology for hurty feelings and others displaying victimhood. I’m intrigued to know where we go from here.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
It is a fair question but not the most important one in my opinion. The inflation rate is predicted to drop to 2% middle of next year, and maybe even into deflation territory. That will happen irrespective of the rate change so this should not be the factor driving the BoE decision. And yes, recent borrowers have probably not wisely borrowed at a low rate to the limit of their ability to pay but this can not be undone now. And we are not talking about a handful of customers here. The question to me do you protect these customers or let them fall into crippling poverty and how many you are willing to sacrifice. Or maybe a better way to say it is how many would need to fail before it produces an economy-wide impactThink you have the horse before the cart.
Loose lending got people into homes they couldn't afford. Artificially low interest rates got people into homes they now can't afford.
People will borrow up to the max that they are allowed, they're not interested in stress testing their own mortgage. Politically it's beneficial to have people owning their own homes and an endless rising market. It makes the electorate feel good, increases their wealth via no effort whatsoever (thin air), facilitates MEW for lots of consumer economy spending.
The problem is (artificially) low interest rates put people's mortgages and in turn the banks balance sheets on life support (they're the one holding the real estate baby, ultimately). Nothing was allowed to fail. The pumped liquidity and zero interest rates encouraged even more lending and search for return and pumped up asset bubbles. Now everything, countries, companies and people are in a debt hole that are now vunerable to these kind of market forces. Interest rates are now pretty much in a range that previous common consensus WAS where they should be 4-5%. Low interest rates have become normalised BUT provide no downward wriggle room. For rates to go to 4% and catastrophe looms shows how bad the problem is.
The other problem facing the government is that 'not allowed to fail' landscape has filtered down to the general public. A combination of the government's bail out of the banks (and other companies) and the policy of loans, grants, handouts during the pandemic and beyond (some worthy/essential I may add)., has defaulted the government as lender of last resort. And let's face it it's not their money it'll all have to come from the taxpayer (eventually
And on that note please remember @Gutter Boy and @Rorschach there is two sides to the interest rate story, if you are to look at the interest rate to inflation overlay chart it has made tinkle poor reading for years for any savers. Should interest rates be kept at 2% while inflation erodes their wealth at 10%?
It's a fair question.
When the rate change kicks in for those renewing their mortgage, say early new year, this will cripple those customers on the limit financially. Higher mortgages ripple into higher rents and into homelessness and strain on already strained services. There will be less demand in an economy where demand is already low. Worse case you could see a housing price crash and every poor bugger that has bought a house in the last few years will have a chunk of negative equity to worry about too. And this on top of the energy and cost of living crisis is a recipe for depression, not recession. There are too many overlapping crises to roll the dice on this.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
So now you are accusing me of gaslighting as well. Not only that but gaslighting 'badly'
. If I was going to attempt something I would at least ensure that I did it well sir.Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
To the pub for a drink and a cordial chat (perhaps not on politics) perhaps?
Invitation accepted!
(and less possibility of wires crossing
)
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Now hold on a minute. That's not how the internet works. Somone cancel each other or something.To the pub for a drink and a cordial chat (perhaps not on politics) perhaps?
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Whatever Wokey. Haven’t you got another gender to create?
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I have enough of alt-right neofascists like you ruining this site. I'm going to cancel you....there I just did it. Ha.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I'll be at the game against Leeds if any of you want a cuddle before the game. DM.
One subject that hasn't been given too much attention is the potential world famine coming up. Not only has the ukraine war cut off a massive amount of grain shipments and put energy prices up. The world is also dependent on both countries for fertilizer. With china cutting exports of rice and shutting down every other week for covid. South asia suffering both droughts and flooding. Things could get pretty bad. The west is mostly food secure. The rest of the world not so much. What's it they say, we're only 3 meals away from anarchy?
More likely to need one after the game.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Yep word for word perfectly.