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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

AuroRaman said:
I’m not into giving extremism, bigotry and terrorists a pass or excuse for murder or attempted murder, so it’s a hard pass from me on that Sport. As Luton said, there was zero condemnation for the actions of the terrorist and so far a couple of excuses as to his actions. Such a weird position to put oneself in.
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Zero condemnation where? I saw lots of stories about what a terrible thing that he did. Where were there excuses made and who by?
 
LutonSpurs said:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment..._medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1667802667
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Also rather interesting is that while (as you said) Asylum applications are half what they were 20 years ago they are now rising quite sharply.

The annual number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010. It rose steadily again throughout the 2010s and then sharply in 2021, to 48,540, which was the highest annual number since 2003.​

As an aside here. How many people per year do you think should be granted asylum in the UK?
 
Finney Is Back said:
What excuse did I make for him?
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Mad that I have to walk you through this. Not sure how genuine you're being but anyway.

You suggested that immigration policy needs to be looked at as a reason for this mans actions which is ludicrous. If someone is willing to go to the lengths he did to harm others, the only thing we need to be looking at is who indoctrinated him and how to stop them indoctrinating others. It's really that simple. Far right ideology and those that use it to galvanise people into committing terrorist acts is the reason this man became a terrorist. To suggest other factors is disingenuous and very murky.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Also rather interesting is that while (as you said) Asylum applications are half what they were 20 years ago they are now rising quite sharply.

The annual number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010. It rose steadily again throughout the 2010s and then sharply in 2021, to 48,540, which was the highest annual number since 2003.​

As an aside here. How many people per year do you think should be granted asylum in the UK?
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I never said a number. I said it should be fair. Do you not read what I write mate lol?
 
AuroRaman said:
Mad that I have to walk you through this. Not sure how genuine you're being but anyway.

You suggested that immigration policy needs to be looked at as a reason for this mans actions which is ludicrous. If someone is willing to go to the lengths he did to harm others, the only thing we need to be looking at is who indoctrinated him and how to stop them indoctrinating others. It's really that simple. Far right ideology and those that use it to galvanise people into committing terrorist acts is the reason this man became a terrorist. To suggest other factors is disingenuous and very murky.
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The solution to all terrorism is to deal with the causes. And they are usually poverty and/or social isolation. So reducing wealth inequality and pro-actively fostering community are the ways to deal with.

Terrorism largely went away in NI not because of policing, or because the two communities hate each other any less. It was because in the 90s they all got a bit richer and became a bit more lower middle class.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The solution to all terrorism is to deal with the causes. And they are usually poverty and/or social isolation. So reducing wealth inequality and pro-actively fostering community are the ways to deal with.

Terrorism largely went away in NI not because of policing, or because the two communities hate each other any less. It was because in the 90s they all got a bit richer and became a bit more lower middle class.
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Im on board with this but I think singular acts of terror unlinked to a specific group or organisation (such as the one being discussed) is much more simply defined.
 
AuroRaman said:
Mad that I have to walk you through this. Not sure how genuine you're being but anyway.

You suggested that immigration policy needs to be looked at as a reason for this mans actions which is ludicrous. If someone is willing to go to the lengths he did to harm others, the only thing we need to be looking at is who indoctrinated him and how to stop them indoctrinating others. It's really that simple. Far right ideology and those that use it to galvanise people into committing terrorist acts is the reason this man became a terrorist. To suggest other factors is disingenuous and very murky.
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No I didn't suggest that this countries immigration policy is an excuse for that persons behaviour, you have tied the two things together unfairly trying to paint me as something that I am not. I worry slightly that you have interpreted my words as me saying that as I have made no suggestion of the type.

I simply said that I think both extremism and badly controlled immigration need to be controlled. They are mutually exclusive things and I didn't link the two together with any suggestion that one causes the other, you have done that all in your own mind.

I wish extremism was eradicated from the world. Immigration to the UK (and I expect many other countries) I think requires a far better system than the one that exists now that simply favours those with the means to get here.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
I never said a number. I said it should be fair. Do you not read what I write mate lol?
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I know you never said a number, that's why I asked you what number you think the UK should take? Should it be unlimited? Should it be capped at X% of existing population? Should it be worked out via GDP and all countries with Western values take a number in proportion? I am genuinely interested in your view here.
 
i see we're still talking about immigration and just ignoring the facts that the Tories have lumped thousands onto everyones mortgages and people are dying waiting for an ambulance.

Good times. Can't wait to see millions vote for this lot again in 2024. Cant imagine who's been running it for the last 12 years
 
Diamond Lights said:
i see we're still talking about immigration and just ignoring the facts that the Tories have lumped thousands onto everyones mortgages and people are dying waiting for an ambulance.

Good times. Can't wait to see millions vote for this lot again in 2024. Cant imagine who's been running it for the last 12 years
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I don't think they''ll get in power at all in 2024, let alone into power with a workable majority.
 
Finney Is Back said:
No I didn't suggest that this countries immigration policy is an excuse for that persons behaviour, you have tied the two things together unfairly trying to paint me as something that I am not. I worry slightly that you have interpreted my words as me saying that as I have made no suggestion of the type.

I simply said that I think both extremism and badly controlled immigration need to be controlled. They are mutually exclusive things and I didn't link the two together with any suggestion that one causes the other, you have done that all in your own mind.

I wish extremism was eradicated from the world. Immigration to the UK (and I expect many other countries) I think requires a far better system than the one that exists now that simply favours those with the means to get here.
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I would suggest if the two are mutually exclusive, not to lump them both together when responding to my post which was very clearly and exclusively about the terrorist attack. That will avoid any unnecessary confusion for you or anyone else.
 
AuroRaman said:
Im on board with this but I think singular acts of terror unlinked to a specific group or organisation (such as the one being discussed) is much more simply defined.
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They are still people that individualistic capitalism leaves behind. In other socio-economic systems they'd maybe have a more purposeful role earlier in life, so wouldn't ever become so dangerously dislocated.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I know you never said a number, that's why I asked you what number you think the UK should take? Should it be unlimited? Should it be capped at X% of existing population? Should it be worked out via GDP and all countries with Western values take a number in proportion? I am genuinely interested in your view here.
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No view whatsoever. I just want the policy to not be racist.
 
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