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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
I think the Britain should only let in people from countries they've invaded. That seems a fair compromise.
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fudge off all Swedes then

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Lilbaz said:
What is a legal route and who arranges it?
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The ones the Ukrainians have

Finney Is Back said:
By ‘non whites’. Do you mean ‘non Ukrainians’?
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Ukrainians are the only non white refugees we have right now

Finney Is Back said:
How many Ukrainian refugees have the UK taken in the last (say) year? And how many immigrants have come here in total in that time?
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120000 visas issues for Ukrainians and about 15000 brown and black ones.
 
I always see a common theme in here on the asylum debate. The posters who for years shot down people who had a different view to them as racist are the same ones that always (like the civil servants) put up complaints about any reform of the whole situation.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in it continuing(political point scoring)

Seems to me no one on either side is really thinking about the poor buggers being used by people traffickers.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I always see a common theme in here on the asylum debate. The posters who for years shot down people who had a different view to them as racist are the same ones that always (like the civil servants) put up complaints about any reform of the whole situation.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in it continuing(political point scoring)

Seems to me no one on either side is really thinking about the poor buggers being used by people traffickers.
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This isn't true. I'm one of those posters and I support those poor buggers once they get here. I stand outside their hotels when far right clams turn up abusing them. You don't know brick about me mate.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Also all the people from Andrew Leaks denomination are eerily lacking rage about a terror attack on British soil. Have a look at yourselves for a second lads.
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You will see more and a push further to the right. We've seen italy and sweden already vote in far right leaders. Unless we get control of it.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I always see a common theme in here on the asylum debate. The posters who for years shot down people who had a different view to them as racist are the same ones that always (like the civil servants) put up complaints about any reform of the whole situation.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in it continuing(political point scoring)

Seems to me no one on either side is really thinking about the poor buggers being used by people traffickers.
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No-one has called anyone else a racist in this ‘debate’

Everyone involved seems to want reform but disagrees on what that reform looks like

As for your last comment, I’ll spare the details and simply echo Luton’s sentiments to you about that.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Because there's no war zone within 1500 miles of Dover.

And why not think big if you want to improve the world? Never try and mend a broken system - create a better system instead.
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Giving the UN custody of processing these matters will potentially create some serious issues revolving around matters such as 'priorities' of countries involved and corruption. They could, under your suggestion, become the FIFA of their realm.

If we REALLY wanted change, why not finance a group like Amnesty International to process such applications? Of course, that's really stretching utopia, but if that's on the table...
 
thfcsteff said:
Giving the UN custody of processing these matters will potentially create some serious issues revolving around matters such as 'priorities' of countries involved and corruption. They could, under your suggestion, become the FIFA of their realm.

If we REALLY wanted change, why not finance a group like Amnesty International to process such applications? Of course, that's really stretching utopia, but if that's on the table...
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Sounds a great idea to me.

The best thing to do with power is always to give it to those who don't seek it
 
Gutter Boy said:
Sounds a great idea to me.

The best thing to do with power is always to give it to those who don't seek it
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Might get in the way of their political point scoring though.

I used to think the right were in the wrong on this issue. But watching from the outside I really don't think the far left want to see the issue resolved. Even the lawyers are making so much money from processing the claims and appeals why would they want to see the issue resolved.

Ever more so people risk their lives as well but hey that doesn't matter to some.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I always see a common theme in here on the asylum debate. The posters who for years shot down people who had a different view to them as racist are the same ones that always (like the civil servants) put up complaints about any reform of the whole situation.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in it continuing(political point scoring)

Seems to me no one on either side is really thinking about the poor buggers being used by people traffickers.
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I am definitely not on a 'side' here. It seems to be a polarised topic - on both sides. Either 'I'm progressive and we should help people more' vs 'we need to control immigration more'. Broadly speaking a left vs right approach to the issue?

To me immigration is one of those issues that is, for want of a better term, popularist. It riles people and is extensively covered in media. People love to read about it! It triggers something highly emotive in them. Images of boats 'invading' our island, understanding the plight of fellow humans...etc. But a bit like gender rights it seems to consume people's attention completely disproportionally. There aren't the 'hoards' of people you'd imagine there were. For every 100,000 people who roll their eyes reading the latest gender terms story, there is probably 1 person who's changed their gender. It is a form of entertainment, rather than a real issue that affects people day to day - if we are honest. The asylum system works to some degree. It's certainly not perfect, but we take in, care for and process people. Yes we need to work with France, possibly use some deterrents and control government spending. But aren't there more important things to exercise our minds and souls? Just seems to be the same old polarised sides, with little constructive coming out of it.

I'd be fascinated to know from those who've invested time in this standing outside hotels, and those who've called for reform and feel exercised by it, what are you suggesting should change and be different about our asylum system?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I'd be fascinated to know from those who've invested time in this standing outside hotels, and those who've called for reform and feel exercised by it, what are you suggesting should change and be different about our asylum system?
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It needs to be fair and legal. It also is important to recognise if a claim is legit the humans can live and work and contribute to our economy and there is a labour shortage. Immigration is a net positive economically. If the Home Office wasn't so focused on hate mongering they could process the claims. All of this is driven by loud echo chambers, especially on the right that has convinced some on here (especially those who are already convinced Muslims are taking over and no go zone's exist) to hate and/or fear the desperate people on the boats.
 
And let's not forget that we had a terrorist attack on UK soil that was driven by this incendiary propaganda driven by Farage and Boris and Truss and Braverman. And unfortunately by assholes like Rachel Reeves on the Labour front benches. They aren't challenging the racist and hate filled rhetoric as they are so desperate to not upset the red wall Brexit folk.
 
LutonSpurs said:
It needs to be fair and legal. It also is important to recognise if a claim is legit the humans can live and work and contribute to our economy and there is a labour shortage. Immigration is a net positive economically. If the Home Office wasn't so focused on hate mongering they could process the claims. All of this is driven by loud echo chambers, especially on the right that has convinced some on here (especially those who are already convinced Muslims are taking over and no go zone's exist) to hate and/or fear the desperate people on the boats.
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What is not fair and legal at the moment? I guess it is extremely hard to decide if a claim is legitimate. You can see the argument that if you are seen as 'open' and treat people well, you attract a lot more. Hence people not wishing to stay in France, with the UK seen as a good destination. But broadly speaking I agree with you. It is a crude vote winner. When the Torys are desperate for something to hang their hat on.
 
SpurMeUp said:
What is not fair and legal at the moment? I guess it is extremely hard to decide if a claim is legitimate. You can see the argument that if you are seen as 'open' and treat people well, you attract a lot more. Hence people not wishing to stay in France, with the UK seen as a good destination. But broadly speaking I agree with you. It is a crude vote winner. When the Torys are desperate for something to hang their hat on.
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What is not fair is how Afghan and Iraqi and Libyan refugees are not allowed to enter or apply in the same way Ukrainians are.

What is not legal is the routes all closed except for Ukrainians
 
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