Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Lilbaz]

If only it were that simple...

It is. As for your observation on productivity. Cheap labour hinders productivity.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...h-worker-jibe-fails-to-understand-the-problem

 

[Lilbaz]

We don't want cheap labour. The country and businesses need to fully embrace the 4th industial revolution. If we don't we'll be left behind.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The question is why does it not have this money and the reasons are ideology, waste and corruption by this current government. That the same mistake of going down the road of austerity is being touted again shows they have either learned nothing or they don't give a fudge about people (hint: it's the 2nd one)

Waste, waste and waste
I left a government role for that reason
You can’t change civil servants
I know someo whose company is charging a gov body £111k a year and she literally has nothing to do. He is hating every minute of it as she is bored to death
I saw loads of it in my 30 months there
I sat down with some SCS2s and they asked me what would I do… I sack half the team and replace them with 2/3rds the staff big on the same total wages. You would get better motivated and capable people who do more work with less bodies… blew their mind

 

[Gutter Boy]

But the problem is lop sided population growth. A less productive and older population when what we need are younger, fitter people to come in and fill vacancies and plug skill shortages. Which is generally what immigration brings. One of the reasons the economy is struggling particularly in sectors such as hospitality and logistics is that there are not enough able people to fill the vacancies. It's limits the productivity of the economy and therefore even less money comes into the treasury.

We need to shrink the population gradually. Constantly increasing it with immigration is just a ponzi scheme. I would set immigration numbers at a level that very deliberately gradually shrinks the population.

I'd also solve the short term problem by cutting student loans and getting back to the situation where students work hospitality and retail jobs around their studies. Get off the East Asian sausage factory approach to education

 

[Rorschach]

Waste, waste and waste
I left a government role for that reason
You can’t change civil servants
I know someo whose company is charging a gov body £111k a year and she literally has nothing to do. He is hating every minute of it as she is bored to death
I saw loads of it in my 30 months there
I sat down with some SCS2s and they asked me what would I do… I sack half the team and replace them with 2/3rds the staff big on the same total wages. You would get better motivated and capable people who do more work with less bodies… blew their mind

Yes, there are inefficiencies and waste in the civil service. I'm not UK based so can't comment too much on what happens there but it is the same everywhere to a greater or lesser degree I would think. However, the waste I was referring to is not productivity or even stupidity, but rather political choices that result in exorbitant waste for no return. This could fill a thread on its own.

The reason given for austerity 2.0 is a 'hole' in the government finances that needs to be plugged by cuts, and this sounds reasonable to the casual observer. This however is just one of many options that can be taken.. Government finances are not constrained like a household budget, despite it being frequently portrayed that way in the media. There are alternative approaches.

 

[Gutter Boy]

In my experience the biggest issue with public sector waste is public sector tendering laws. These are politically designed to siphon money out into the private sector

For example a public sector worker can't go to Staples to buy a standard 50p pen. Instead they have to order 10000 expensive defective ones from some Tory doner's company. That sort of thing

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yes, there are inefficiencies and waste in the civil service. I'm not UK based so can't comment too much on what happens there but it is the same everywhere to a greater or lesser degree I would think. However, the waste I was referring to is not productivity or even stupidity, but rather political choices that result in exorbitant waste for no return. This could fill a thread on its own.

The reason given for austerity 2.0 is a 'hole' in the government finances that needs to be plugged by cuts, and this sounds reasonable to the casual observer. This however is just one of many options that can be taken.. Government finances are not constrained like a household budget, despite it being frequently portrayed that way in the media. There are alternative approaches.

I think Truss largely killed off alternative approaches short term. Any more borrowing would affect the pound and rate at which we can borrow. Increasing mortgages etc.

There is a culture of acceptance among government/tax payer funded industries that there is waste. It is shocking. It is our money, and there is no incentive to run schemes with efficiency. How poorly our civil service perform in efficiency and productivity is an issue no one wants to look at or admit. Keep your head down and pick up a tidy pension is the mantra.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yes, there are inefficiencies and waste in the civil service. I'm not UK based so can't comment too much on what happens there but it is the same everywhere to a greater or lesser degree I would think. However, the waste I was referring to is not productivity or even stupidity, but rather political choices that result in exorbitant waste for no return. This could fill a thread on its own.

The reason given for austerity 2.0 is a 'hole' in the government finances that needs to be plugged by cuts, and this sounds reasonable to the casual observer. This however is just one of many options that can be taken.. Government finances are not constrained like a household budget, despite it being frequently portrayed that way in the media. There are alternative approaches.

It could be plugged by taxing businesses and rich people, like we've avoided doing for the last 40 years.

It's an old saying, but you don't get European public services for American level taxes. So cutting services more is one option. But actually paying taxes is the other. Half of the wealth of this country is held by 10% of the people.

We should also do temporary emergency nationalisation of private hospitals and schools to help get the country through the current crisis.

 

[Rorschach]

It could be plugged by taxing businesses and rich people, like we've avoided doing for the last 40 years.

It's an old saying, but you don't get European public services for American level taxes. So cutting services more is one option. But actually paying taxes is the other. Half of the wealth of this country is held by 10% of the people.

We should also do temporary emergency nationalisation of private hospitals and schools to help get the country through the current crisis.

And of course rejoining the single market would help

 

[DTA]

And of course rejoining the single market would help

if we rejoined the CU and SM a that would be a remarkable boost to the economy. A lot of the pain that a lot of people are feeling will be lessened.

but it would mean those pesky Europeans would be coming back into this country to:

- drive our ambulances, so your elderly relative doesn’t have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance (it’s happening look it up)
- care for our sick and frail
- pick and process our food so the price doesn’t increase beyond what people can afford

now obviously they do a lot more… but I thought I would just pick these three, as hopefully it hit home to some… probably not though.

the economic boost will also mean that interest rates would likely fall, because of the easing of supply led inflation brought about in a small part from reducing friction in supply lines and the steady stream of willing workers which are missing in our economy today (ask anyone in health, care or hospitallity recruitment to name a few).

 

[Lilbaz]

if we rejoined the CU and SM a that would be a remarkable boost to the economy. A lot of the pain that a lot of people are feeling will be lessened.

but it would mean those pesky Europeans would be coming back into this country to:

- drive our ambulances, so your elderly relative doesn’t have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance (it’s happening look it up)
- care for our sick and frail
- pick and process our food so the price doesn’t increase beyond what people can afford

now obviously they do a lot more… but I thought I would just pick these three, as hopefully it hit home to some… probably not though.

the economic boost will also mean that interest rates would likely fall, because of the easing of supply led inflation brought about in a small part from reducing friction in supply lines and the steady stream of willing workers which are missing in our economy today (ask anyone in health, care or hospitallity recruitment to name a few).

You realise there isn't a ban on immigrants? We will still have immigration it will just be controlled. European citizens will just face the same rules as people from canada or australia.
If we are short in a sector whatever that may be we can bring in immigrants.

Think of it as like a pub with a doorman. He will only turn away people that they don't want coming in.

 

[Gutter Boy]

if we rejoined the CU and SM a that would be a remarkable boost to the economy. A lot of the pain that a lot of people are feeling will be lessened.

but it would mean those pesky Europeans would be coming back into this country to:

- drive our ambulances, so your elderly relative doesn’t have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance (it’s happening look it up)
- care for our sick and frail
- pick and process our food so the price doesn’t increase beyond what people can afford

now obviously they do a lot more… but I thought I would just pick these three, as hopefully it hit home to some… probably not though.

the economic boost will also mean that interest rates would likely fall, because of the easing of supply led inflation brought about in a small part from reducing friction in supply lines and the steady stream of willing workers which are missing in our economy today (ask anyone in health, care or hospitallity recruitment to name a few).

Why discriminate against non-white people?

Where would you build a city new the size of Manchester every decade to accommodate the enormous population growth?

 

[DTA]

Why discriminate against non-white people?

Where would you build a city new the size of Manchester every decade to accommodate the enormous population growth?

no one is discriminating against anyone. even in the EU the UK are free to allow any amount of non EU immigrants they want into the country.

the city the size of Manchester is hyber flimflam there are plenty of places up north which are underpopulated, Middlesbrough was in population decline even pre Brexit. it’s about investments in these places with the supply of good jobs that would make them attractive to live in.

 

[DTA]

You realise there isn't a ban on immigrants? We will still have immigration it will just be controlled. European citizens will just face the same rules as people from canada or australia.
If we are short in a sector whatever that may be we can bring in immigrants.

Think of it as like a pub with a doorman. He will only turn away people that they don't want coming in.

amazing in theory in practice it’s been a brick show.

there are shortages everywhere, and this one of (not the only one obviously) the drivers of inflation

 

[Finney Is Back]

The question is why does it not have this money and the reasons are ideology, waste and corruption by this current government. That the same mistake of going down the road of austerity is being touted again shows they have either learned nothing or they don't give a fudge about people (hint: it's the 2nd one)

Perhaps... Though I'm not sure that is restricted to this current government.

The NHS is probably where a majority of government money is wasted but it is almost impossible for political parties to have a sensible conversation with regards this as the opposition use it as a stick to beat (and take votes) with.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But the problem is lop sided population growth. A less productive and older population when what we need are younger, fitter people to come in and fill vacancies and plug skill shortages. Which is generally what immigration brings. One of the reasons the economy is struggling particularly in sectors such as hospitality and logistics is that there are not enough able people to fill the vacancies. It's limits the productivity of the economy and therefore even less money comes into the treasury.

The problem being that many of those sectors do not pay particularly high wages and the overall cost of the people filling those jobs isn't necessarily a net gain to the state in terms of taxation in and spending out.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Youth unemployment is at 10%, while for the entire population it is 3.5%. If hospitality and logistics are struggling to find workers they need to train them and offer decent wages. But that costs money and cuts into profits.

Much of the hospitality sector has very little in the way of profits. Restaurants and bars are probably the most likely new businesses to fail (will be even more likely in the coming high energy cost, higher interest climate).

 

[Finney Is Back]

It could be plugged by taxing businesses and rich people, like we've avoided doing for the last 40 years.

It's an old saying, but you don't get European public services for American level taxes. So cutting services more is one option. But actually paying taxes is the other. Half of the wealth of this country is held by 10% of the people.

We should also do temporary emergency nationalisation of private hospitals and schools to help get the country through the current crisis.

Taxing businesses and 'rich people' in what particular way? Also what is your definition of a 'rich person'.

'Nationalisation' of hospitals and schools meaning what? How is this paid for? Or will these simply be 'taken' with no compensation paid? Who will foot (the no doubt huge) legal costs?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Why discriminate against non-white people?

Where would you build a city new the size of Manchester every decade to accommodate the enormous population growth?

There actually tends to be less need to increase the size of the population when taking your immigrant workers from Europe than Asia/Africa. Young European workers tend to return home in their later years (when they become more of a burden to the state). Migrant workers from Asia and Africa are far more likely to remain. One of the things that I like to point out to some of the racist brexiteers of the generation older than me is that they have done more than anyone to ensure this country is far less white in the future. It's an absolute delicious irony I think and the only bright side and bit of joy that I get out of Brexit.

 

[Rorschach]

if we rejoined the CU and SM a that would be a remarkable boost to the economy. A lot of the pain that a lot of people are feeling will be lessened.

but it would mean those pesky Europeans would be coming back into this country to:

- drive our ambulances, so your elderly relative doesn’t have to wait 5 hours for an ambulance (it’s happening look it up)
- care for our sick and frail
- pick and process our food so the price doesn’t increase beyond what people can afford

now obviously they do a lot more… but I thought I would just pick these three, as hopefully it hit home to some… probably not though.

the economic boost will also mean that interest rates would likely fall, because of the easing of supply led inflation brought about in a small part from reducing friction in supply lines and the steady stream of willing workers which are missing in our economy today (ask anyone in health, care or hospitallity recruitment to name a few).

Interest rates are an interesting one. I've seen a few economists comment on this already, that raising rates is a pretty bad move but they will happen anyway. Central banks are raising the rates as it is the lever they pull to dampen consumer spending to control inflation. But inflation rates will fall next year anyway as current rates reflect pre and post war figures. So this is somewhat baked in and although prices will not drop much, if at all, inflation rates will as they are relative. So the blunt force instrument that is rate increases will really only serve to dampen economic activity further as worried householders spend less to compensate for mortgage and rent increasess. This is going to drive economies into recession.