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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

monkeybarry said:
I think EFTA membership, and therefore Single Market, could be easily sold in the next parliament, especially if it's isn't a Tory Govt.
Joining the customs union would be very tricky though.

The issue is likely to be whether Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Iceland want the UK in the EFTA. It could be a bit like an aging top level footballer joining a stable mid table team, but coming with their Billy big bollox ego, throwing their weight around and just doing their own thing instead of following tactics. So you'd get the odd unexpected win, but overall it'd destabilise the group.
(Or as it's otherwise known.... Ronaldo & Man U)
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The other thing is once you start to unravel brexit, you start to say, why take all the rules and not make them? This logic is how we got to such a hard brexit, in reverse :) A 'soft Brexit' is just less sovereignty. The uncomfortable truth is, it is better to be issued rules by the EU and have access to the customs union, than not. But it is better to have full membership and input into the rules - which is as we were before we left.
 
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monkeybarry said:
I'd even back Jeremy Corbyn running on a ticket to take broadband into public ownership and give everyone a free badger to win at this rate.
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The issue is, whoever picks up the baton has no money and massive debt to service. Truss gambled on bluffing their way out of it. That didn't wash. Now what?
 
monkeybarry said:
I think EFTA membership, and therefore Single Market, could be easily sold in the next parliament, especially if it's isn't a Tory Govt.
Joining the customs union would be very tricky though.

The issue is likely to be whether Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Iceland want the UK in the EFTA. It could be a bit like an aging top level footballer joining a stable mid table team, but coming with their Billy big bollox ego, throwing their weight around and just doing their own thing instead of following tactics. So you'd get the odd unexpected win, but overall it'd destabilise the group.
(Or as it's otherwise known.... Ronaldo & Man U)
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Labour won't win a GE if there's any hint of Brexit reversal in their manifesto. The whole red wall will be watching that intently. Luckily Starmer seems like he has sussed that
 
SpurMeUp said:
The issue is, whoever picks up the baton has no money and massive debt to service. Truss gambled on bluffing their way out of it. That didn't wash. Now what?
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No different to 1945, when we went on a massive splurg of public spending, which was incredibly successful
 
I actually think the scene is nicely set for Starmer. We've had flashy Boris. We've had people promising the earth, and trying to bluff through it all. Starmer is pragmatic. Safe. Boring. Exactly what is required. Shame there is no way to get him in power now. The Tory party would benefit from a reset itself, and we could refresh politics too. But we have to wait until 2025!
 
I think labour just need to say we're going to raise taxes, particularly on the rich and big businesses, and we're going to mend everything that has gotten so broken. A proper reconstruction job. Job done
 
Gutter Boy said:
No different to 1945, when we went on a massive splurg of public spending, which was incredibly successful
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And what has happened post-budget where they tried to do the very same? £100B on energy subsidisy. Huge debt. And tax breaks. What was the outcome? Our national bank had to print money to rescue our financial system? Buying up bonds to protect borrowing costs from exploding more than it has already.

Again. What now?
 
SpurMeUp said:
The issue is, whoever picks up the baton has no money and massive debt to service. Truss gambled on bluffing their way out of it. That didn't wash. Now what?
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Honesty and stable govt.
The Tories have crashed the economy.
Labour don't need to promise the earth now - they just need to promise not to raise everyone's mortgages to default risk, to manage the economy sensibly and look for opportunities for growth.
"This may include difficult and unpopular decisions" - EFTA being one of them. "The Tories broke it. We can't unbreak it. But we will patch up it and make it better than it is now."

I think you'll find a lot of people will put their ideology aside if the choice is that Vs paying the mortgage/the holiday in Turkey/sending the kids to a good school/turning the heating on/eating etc etc.

Even Tories understand you can't eat money.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The other thing is once you start to unravel brexit, you start to say, why take all the rules and not make them? This logic is how we got to such a hard brexit, in reverse :) A 'soft Brexit' is just less sovereignty. The uncomfortable truth is, it is better to be issued rules by the EU and have access to the customs union, than not. But it is better to have full membership and input into the rules - which is as we were before we left.
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Absolutely.
But that ship has sailed.
The task of government now is to choose* where we position ourselves to make the best for the country from where we currently are, not where we were.

*And that's a fair position - many Brexit peeps wanted just that. We've tried hard distancing, go it alone politics and found out we don't have the set up or political ability to achieve it.
If EFTA or customs union (which seems highly unlikely outside of the EU - Monaco isn't really a worthwhile comparison) is the way we create the most prosperity, then we go that way. But it's out of choice.

(Annoyingly, we are on the exact timeline and trajectory I predicted in 2016/17.
I didn't anticipate Covid or Bojo though!)
 
Rorschach said:
Thanks. Will have a listen.

From just reading the first paragraph, I can't say I recognise any of that in the current Tory party.
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Hunt and Gove have bits of it.
There might be a few back benchers?
But in general it wouldn't survive in the current Tory party.

It's what the extreme parts of Labour think Starmer and Blair are. And they aren't that far wrong - just neither are right of the line.

It also shows how far the needle has shifted from the start of Thatcher and especially in the last decade.
 
Diamond Lights said:
4th Chancellor in 5 months. FIVE. MONTHS.

For context in the previous 20 years before Brexit we had 3 Chancellors of the Exchequer.

Again, we all lose. Every. One. Of. Us.
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Don’t hear much on here from the pro-Brexiteers these days. Perhaps that sound we can hear is the sound of pennies eventually dropping.

SpurMeUp said:
To be honest I don’t think they are necessarily so ideologically extreme.
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You may want to have a quick read through Britannia Unchained (which, after today, has been moved to the Fantasy section of your local library).
 
SpurMeUp said:
And what has happened post-budget where they tried to do the very same? £100B on energy subsidisy. Huge debt. And tax breaks. What was the outcome? Our national bank had to print money to rescue our financial system? Buying up bonds to protect borrowing costs from exploding more than it has already.

Again. What now?
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Now is borrowing to syphon money to the wealthy. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure and skills is very different
 
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