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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Jurgen the German said:
You really do like to read what people say and then tell THEM what they are actually saying don’t you? Funny you mention Jordan Peterson as I was reading the thread about him and you did the same thing to Lilbaz. You were debating about white privilege and class. He quite clearly stated he thinks race plays a part, but you cut his post down to size and made it seem like he was dismissing race as a factor. He said class is the factor for most. But you managed to put him in the racist box so you automatically win the argument. Here’s what he said. The bolded part is thr but you cut to size and Called him ignorant. So I’m going to bow out of this conversation now before you think I’m going silent. I’d just rather not debate with someone who uses cheap tactics and paints everyone as a bigot to win the debate by default.

I see it more as a class or wealth issue rather than skin colour. People judge others on appearance but also how they speak. Yes skin colour can be a factor for some, but how you dress, how good looking you are, if you're over weight, aggressive or charming, if you remind them of someone they hate/love. All have a factor in how people react to you.
The police get a lot of stick, some deserved, some not. But it was the officers that asked for bodycams. Because they wanted interactions with the public recorded.
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Let’s face it Jurgen, Jordan Peterson (much like Joe Rogan) is a ‘pub bore’ who believes he’s a ‘philosopher’. He appears to me to simply parrot the sort of ‘discourse and discussions’ which parrot and reflect what the populist think-tanks are spinning. In fact, it is no mistake that the likes of Peterson and Rogan had little traction until media companies understood the power of a loud opinion dressed up as ‘debate/fact’. Thanks to the like of Peterson, entire ideals are grossly misrepresented and turned into ‘fear’ factors. I guarantee you that wherever the money flows in terms of clicks and poplar public manipulations, he will go. FWIW, the paragraph you have isolated is (IMO) a ‘nothing’ collection of general platitudes presented as some cheap faux-intellectualism. It is the sort of ‘who me’ stuff I’d expect from the Daily Mail, you know, sort of like when someone says, “I don’t hate ‘them’, some of ‘them’ are my friends…”
I sincerely, and I mean this genuinely, hope that Jordan Peterson does not form any important part of your critical thinking or world view.
 
glasgowspur said:
I often find that people like JP who start off walking a debatable position soon veer off into idiocy the more desperate they get for publicity.
His original position on his rights on nouns/pronouns and gender was ok, if only because his rights should not be trumped by someone else's.
If it had stopped there then fair enough, but he has continued feed the media monster, so to me it has been just a push for fame and notoriety.
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He’s a self-interested predator feeding off the fires of populism and dressing it up as ‘intellectual debate’…I think it’s scumbag territory.
 
thfcsteff said:
Let’s face it Jurgen, Jordan Peterson (much like Joe Rogan) is a ‘pub bore’ who believes he’s a ‘philosopher’. He appears to me to simply parrot the sort of ‘discourse and discussions’ which parrot and reflect what the populist think-tanks are spinning. In fact, it is no mistake that the likes of Peterson and Rogan had little traction until media companies understood the power of a loud opinion dressed up as ‘debate/fact’. Thanks to the like of Peterson, entire ideals are grossly misrepresented and turned into ‘fear’ factors. I guarantee you that wherever the money flows in terms of clicks and poplar public manipulations, he will go. FWIW, the paragraph you have isolated is (IMO) a ‘nothing’ collection of general platitudes presented as some cheap faux-intellectualism. It is the sort of ‘who me’ stuff I’d expect from the Daily Mail, you know, sort of like when someone says, “I don’t hate ‘them’, some of ‘them’ are my friends…”
I sincerely, and I mean this genuinely, hope that Jordan Peterson does not form any important part of your critical thinking or world view.
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Rogan, shudder!
 
thfcsteff said:
Let’s face it Jurgen, Jordan Peterson (much like Joe Rogan) is a ‘pub bore’ who believes he’s a ‘philosopher’. He appears to me to simply parrot the sort of ‘discourse and discussions’ which parrot and reflect what the populist think-tanks are spinning. In fact, it is no mistake that the likes of Peterson and Rogan had little traction until media companies understood the power of a loud opinion dressed up as ‘debate/fact’. Thanks to the like of Peterson, entire ideals are grossly misrepresented and turned into ‘fear’ factors. I guarantee you that wherever the money flows in terms of clicks and poplar public manipulations, he will go. FWIW, the paragraph you have isolated is (IMO) a ‘nothing’ collection of general platitudes presented as some cheap faux-intellectualism. It is the sort of ‘who me’ stuff I’d expect from the Daily Mail, you know, sort of like when someone says, “I don’t hate ‘them’, some of ‘them’ are my friends…”
I sincerely, and I mean this genuinely, hope that Jordan Peterson does not form any important part of your critical thinking or world view.
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Not exclusively. He’s just one voice I listen and often agree with. I don’t agree with everything he says. On the whole, the people I listen to in terms of intellectuals at the moment are Stephen Fry, John McWhorter, Glenn Loury, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, Ricky Gervais, Richard Dawkins, Jonathan Haidt, Neil Degrasse Tyson. Some of those are comedians and not intellectuals but I usually find myself agreeing with them. On the whole I like people who are contrarians and don’t just go with the flow. You mentioned Joe Rogan, I think he’s a great interviewer, wouldn’t necessarily say I’m aligned with his political views, but again I do find myself agreeing with him. Not always on politics, but on sports and particularly trans participation in sport. He’s an expert when it comes to UFC so I think his views carry weight. Wouldn’t listen to his views on vaccines though. Could never quite understand the furore when people tried to get him thrown off Spotify for his views on the vaccine. If you don’t like him, switch him off and don’t listen to him.
 
3 Prime Ministers and 5 Chancellors in the six years since Brexit - highly possible that those numbers change to 4 and 6 very soon.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Until it's accepted that we need to re-join the single market, and until that then happens, the economy cannot begin to be fixed.
 
Mikey10 said:
3 Prime Ministers and 5 Chancellors in the six years since Brexit - highly possible that those numbers change to 4 and 6 very soon.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Until it's accepted that we need to re-join the single market, and until that then happens, the economy cannot begin to be fixed.
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9 Education secretaries in the last 12 years,so on average just over 1 year in the job. How can anyone think that will help develop children's education and continue to vote for this lot?
 
Mikey10 said:
3 Prime Ministers and 5 Chancellors in the six years since Brexit - highly possible that those numbers change to 4 and 6 very soon.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Until it's accepted that we need to re-join the single market, and until that then happens, the economy cannot begin to be fixed.
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I think it could hit 6 chancellors as early as today. Brexit is less than 2 years old really, not that it makes a difference.
 
KK's resignation letter....bazinga!

"Your (IE Truss') political outlook on fiscal policy"

"My (KKs) team worked hard to minimise the impacts"

Makes her upcoming U-turn impossible. She can't just palm it off on Kwarteng (I would rephrase that. But now you all have to think about Truss palming it off on Kwarteng now!) - it's unequivocally her policy too. So even if she claimed to have a mandate form the Tory party members, a U-turn destroys.
Credibility gone under absolutely any line of query now.
 
Mikey10 said:
3 Prime Ministers and 5 Chancellors in the six years since Brexit - highly possible that those numbers change to 4 and 6 very soon.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Until it's accepted that we need to re-join the single market, and until that then happens, the economy cannot begin to be fixed.
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Sad but true.

Market faith is partly suffering because - we ourselves, our government - say Brexit will impact the UKs GDP. Each year we’ll be worse off for being out by many billions. So of course this will be factored into market pricing. Our AAA rating is reduced and all our imports cost more. Then ontop of that we have the dregs of the Tory party undermining any faith that there is accountability and a realistic plan.

We could keep Brexit and re-enter the single market. As things stand we are largely open to imports from the EU. We mostly have open boarders. The reverse is not true and our exporters are impacted.

It is extremely hard to see how we could rejoin the single market however, what the political mechanism would be to make this fix. It would still be Brexit a la Norway. But I don’t believe any politicians have the vision and charisma to pull this off, even though it would be in the best interests of the nation.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Sad but true.

Market faith is partly suffering because - we ourselves, our government - say Brexit will impact the UKs GDP. Each year we’ll be worse off for being out by many billions. So of course this will be factored into market pricing. Our AAA rating is reduced and all our imports cost more. Then ontop of that we have the dregs of the Tory party undermining any faith that there is accountability and a realistic plan.

We could keep Brexit and re-enter the single market. As things stand we are largely open to imports from the EU. We mostly have open boarders. The reverse is not true and our exporters are impacted.

It is extremely hard to see how we could rejoin the single market however, what the political mechanism would be to make this fix. It would still be Brexit a la Norway. But I don’t believe any politicians have the vision and charisma to pull this off, even though it would be in the best interests of the nation.
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The first step is to get rid of this useless shower. We are currently governed by ultra-nationalist hard-right ideologues.
 
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