Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[DTA]

Thanks, its interesting to me how customs and traditions develop and evolve.
It kind of shames me to say that I'm almost totally ignorant of arab and muslim culture, as well as many other cultures.

Wear what you want and for whatever reason you want, for all that to me its only clothes for others these items can mean so much more.

dont be shamed bruv you are open to learn. Which we all should be, it makes us more understanding and rounded individuals

To be honest there is no one ‘Muslim’ culture.

a few facts that many wouldn’t know. Muslim countries like Turkey allowed women to vote before countries like France.

I just read today, that the Ottoman Empire brought in some LGBT rights in the 1800s, I will have to read more about it and see what they were, but it does challenge common narratives about ‘the muslims’

 

[LutonSpurs]

We are not homogenous. We are not a monolith. We are individuals. Some of us are cultural. Some secular. Some conservative. Some extreme. Some liberal. Some stupid. Some intelligent (me).

The broad brush to try and understand us as one entity is not possible because we are not one.

Also fudge Iranian authorities.

 

[SpurMeUp]

To be fair I voted for the Norway style deal as I thought that was the best we could get.

What we actually got was better then my wildest dreams.

I take your point and actually have to agree a little with the romoaners that the were so many different brexits that such a small win in the vote should have meant the most small types of brexit. Personally I'm glad for the brexit we got as I value freedom and am not a Nazi.

Great you're not a Nazi! Not sure the board are ready for such a revelation! Unless it involves stockings a la Max Mosely, I could take that

What are taxpayers due to shell out to subsidise energy costs? Yes the way this government have done it is wasteful, with no onus on a collective (as in France), and they are not using our resources smartly to invest in solar etc. Another shambles. But however many billions it is costing the UK, it is still less than Brexit costs us. Same applies to the billions washed down the toilet during Covid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions

Money isn't everything though. I could get on board if there was some kind of national drive for a more harmonious, collective spirit, where people were energised to make a difference and improve the quality of life for themselves and their communities. We could be poorer but have a better social existence with a greater focus on local community. But there is none of that. We have taken away wealth but replaced it with nothing. We have the same society, morals, ethics which are all built around wealth creation, with less cash coming in. If you are going to rip up the hegemony at least replace it with something.

 

[Mikey10]

Great you're not a Nazi! Not sure the board are ready for such a revelation! Unless it involves stockings a la Max Mosely, I could take that

What are taxpayers due to shell out to subsidise energy costs? Yes the way this government have done it is wasteful, with no onus on a collective (as in France), and they are not using our resources smartly to invest in solar etc. Another shambles. But however many billions it is costing the UK, it is still less than Brexit costs us. Same applies to the billions washed down the toilet during Covid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions

Money isn't everything though. I could get on board if there was some kind of national drive for a more harmonious, collective spirit, where people were energised to make a difference and improve the quality of life for themselves and their communities. We could be poorer but have a better social existence with a greater focus on local community. But there is none of that. We have taken away wealth but replaced it with nothing. We have the same society, morals, ethics which are all built around wealth creation, with less cash coming in. If you are going to rip up the hegemony at least replace it with something.

Thatcher stripped away much of the community aspect of life in Britain (“There is no such thing as society”), as well as redeveloping the economy to be nothing more that a giant glorified service industry.

There is a lot of reclaiming to be done. It’s the job of a couple of decades at least.

 

[parklane1]

He’s been replying to my posts with irrelevant gash for a sustained period of time.

He’s having a public crying toss shouting Brexit over and over. Do not need it.

He is obsessed with it just because it did not go his way.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He is obsessed with it just because it did not go his way.

That is just natural human nature though.... Lots of Brexiteers were obsessed with getting Brexit for many years prior to it eventually (unfortunately) happening. There is nothing wrong with somebody wanting a different future, especially if one perceives that different future to be a better one.

 

[SpurMeUp]

He is obsessed with it just because it did not go his way.

People on here sent me private messages when I'd got bored posting about Brexit. They asked why I'd not mentioned it.

Brexit still has huge implications for the UK. It still motivates people too, as your and @johnola posts show. Why so rilled? Maybe because deep down you now appreciate it is a bit of a brick show. Its conspicuous how few defend Brexit anymore. Hailed by many as having great promise and no drawbacks, that narrative seems to have died. The advantages are still to be identified, let alone seen, but the drawbacks are increasingly evident. No wonder you're triggered. What we have got - it wasn't what we were promised.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Thatcher stripped away much of the community aspect of life in Britain (“There is no such thing as society”), as well as redeveloping the economy to be nothing more that a giant glorified service industry.

There is a lot of reclaiming to be done. It’s the job of a couple of decades at least.

Agreed. The frustrating thing is, there is a lack of innovation in politics. Same old same old. Brexit, Corbyn...the more radical movements have been false dawns for various reasons. The last progressive government was under Blair really. They were able to bring fresh ideas and innovations. Cameron too to some extent. But since, wow we've lacked any real vision. It does feel like the UK has stagnated over this time. So much could be done to refresh politics and government.

 

[Grays_1890]

Agreed. The frustrating thing is, there is a lack of innovation in politics. Same old same old. Brexit, Corbyn...the more radical movements have been false dawns for various reasons. The last progressive government was under Blair really. They were able to bring fresh ideas and innovations. Cameron too to some extent. But since, wow we've lacked any real vision. It does feel like the UK has stagnated over this time. So much could be done to refresh politics and government.

This is where I am with politics now, having alot of time to reflect and look at the landscape over Covid.

Ultimately the realisation that like you say politics has not changed for years and unlikely to and that we are here for 3 score and 10 means we are only dust in the scheme of it so now I don't let any of it get to me, roll with it and maybe selfishly get my head down and try (try being the key word) to roll with it, I won't change it so why try. Maybe people will read that as a sad view but as a social, history and psychology graduate I spent time reflecting on people that really make a difference to the world and not many do in the grand scheme despite our own inherent arrogance to believe we do, so for me now its all about family and personal happiness and the fight to make that happen. Howling at the moon about things either way, for me personally is not healthy or logical anymore.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It's all subjective interpretation tbh. I'm with you. It's just a choice. And nothing to do with us men.

It's like my wife going to the supermarket in gym wear when she has and is not going to the gym.

It is a uniform to protect them from the world. Same reason why I sometimes go weeks without shaving.

Totally get why the Muslim women do it.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Great you're not a Nazi! Not sure the board are ready for such a revelation! Unless it involves stockings a la Max Mosely, I could take that

What are taxpayers due to shell out to subsidise energy costs? Yes the way this government have done it is wasteful, with no onus on a collective (as in France), and they are not using our resources smartly to invest in solar etc. Another shambles. But however many billions it is costing the UK, it is still less than Brexit costs us. Same applies to the billions washed down the toilet during Covid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#assumptions

Money isn't everything though. I could get on board if there was some kind of national drive for a more harmonious, collective spirit, where people were energised to make a difference and improve the quality of life for themselves and their communities. We could be poorer but have a better social existence with a greater focus on local community. But there is none of that. We have taken away wealth but replaced it with nothing. We have the same society, morals, ethics which are all built around wealth creation, with less cash coming in. If you are going to rip up the hegemony at least replace it with something.

I agree with pretty much all of that. Guess which bits I did not agree with. Yes we need Labour in government to give us a good brexit.

The EU do well on a few things, but doing better then the Conservatives is not difficult.

 

[parklane1]

People on here sent me private messages when I'd got bored posting about Brexit. They asked why I'd not mentioned it.

Brexit still has huge implications for the UK. It still motivates people too, as your and @johnola posts show. Why so rilled? Maybe because deep down you now appreciate it is a bit of a brick show. Its conspicuous how few defend Brexit anymore. Hailed by many as having great promise and no drawbacks, that narrative seems to have died. The advantages are still to be identified, let alone seen, but the drawbacks are increasingly evident. No wonder you're triggered. What we have got - it wasn't what we were promised.

Blah, blah, blah as usual from you over Brexit. Your like a broken record.

 

[LutonSpurs]

It's like my wife going to the supermarket in gym wear when she has and is not going to the gym.

It is a uniform to protect them from the world. Same reason why I sometimes go weeks without shaving.

Totally get why the Muslim women do it.

Cheers mate.

 

[Jurgen the German]

There’s a whole thread on one here



I can only go by your posts. Your original post seemed like a clear attempt to ‘own the libs’ as opposed to any care for the empowerment of women.



Did you hold your hands up about Tom Daley? I don’t recall that but happy to be corrected. You seemed to go silent.



This whole bit says so much more about what you’re projecting than anything about me. I’m not fishing for likes or looking to change hearts and minds. This is the internet not a debate hall. Simply calling out flimflam. If you think I’m being sanctimonious or patronising, I’m afraid I just don’t care. My tolerance level for what is actually dangerous to society has gone to zero.

Assume you are referring to Jordan Peterson? I don’t agree with everything he says but I think he talks common sense most of the time. Would I like him to criticise the right more? Yes but I don’t see harm in him calling out the left either just as Richard Dawkins does and Stephen Fry does.

It comes from a place of wanting liberals to do better and argue better. I don’t believe lecturing and insincere moralising that condescends to people is an effective way to bring people on board.

I don’t think I needed to hold my hands up about Tom Daley. Could I have added more balance to what I said? Perhaps yes. I could have said he’s got it half right but he’s only telling half the story, but I don’t think I was wrong to air my views on him. Some people won’t like it but that’s the nature of life in 2022 I guess.

 

[AuroRaman]

Assume you are referring to Jordan Peterson? I don’t agree with everything he says but I think he talks common sense most of the time. Would I like him to criticise the right more? Yes but I don’t see harm in him calling out the left either just as Richard Dawkins does and Stephen Fry does.

It comes from a place of wanting liberals to do better and argue better. I don’t believe lecturing and insincere moralising that condescends to people is an effective way to bring people on board.

I don’t think I needed to hold my hands up about Tom Daley. Could I have added more balance to what I said? Perhaps yes. I could have said he’s got it half right but he’s only telling half the story, but I don’t think I was wrong to air my views on him. Some people won’t like it but that’s the nature of life in 2022 I guess.

This is why it’s dangerous. Your first and second paragraphs read exactly from the same though process and playbook as a bog standard MAGA or incel just with longer words and more eloquent. Peterson is becoming more of a laughing stock each day as he’s getting more publicity to the wider public.

You didn’t need to hold your hands up about Tom Daley, you just said you did. There were no half-rights, you got it completely wrong and were rightly called out for it with links for receipts.

You’re right, the left should be held accountable when they get things wholly wrong. As they often are and do. In this specific scenario, and why we’re having this conversation (just so you don’t attempt to shift goal posts again), you tried to use the situation in Iran and the banner of women empowerment to own the libs and make lazy, tiresome assumptions about the so-called liberal media.

 

[Jurgen the German]

This is why it’s dangerous. Your first and second paragraphs read exactly from the same though process and playbook as a bog standard MAGA or incel just with longer words and more eloquent. Peterson is becoming more of a laughing stock each day as he’s getting more publicity to the wider public.

You didn’t need to hold your hands up about Tom Daley, you just said you did. There were no half-rights, you got it completely wrong and were rightly called out for it with links for receipts.

You’re right, the left should be held accountable when they get things wholly wrong. As they often are and do. In this specific scenario, and why we’re having this conversation (just so you don’t attempt to shift goal posts again), you tried to use the situation in Iran and the banner of women empowerment to own the libs and make lazy, tiresome assumptions about the so-called liberal media.

You really do like to read what people say and then tell THEM what they are actually saying don’t you? Funny you mention Jordan Peterson as I was reading the thread about him and you did the same thing to Lilbaz. You were debating about white privilege and class. He quite clearly stated he thinks race plays a part, but you cut his post down to size and made it seem like he was dismissing race as a factor. He said class is the factor for most. But you managed to put him in the racist box so you automatically win the argument. Here’s what he said. The bolded part is thr but you cut to size and Called him ignorant. So I’m going to bow out of this conversation now before you think I’m going silent. I’d just rather not debate with someone who uses cheap tactics and paints everyone as a bigot to win the debate by default.

I see it more as a class or wealth issue rather than skin colour. People judge others on appearance but also how they speak. Yes skin colour can be a factor for some, but how you dress, how good looking you are, if you're over weight, aggressive or charming, if you remind them of someone they hate/love. All have a factor in how people react to you.
The police get a lot of stick, some deserved, some not. But it was the officers that asked for bodycams. Because they wanted interactions with the public recorded.

 

[AuroRaman]

You really do like to read what people say and then tell THEM what they are actually saying don’t you? Funny you mention Jordan Peterson as I was reading the thread about him and you did the same thing to Lilbaz. You were debating about white privilege and class. He quite clearly stated he thinks race plays a part, but you cut his post down to size and made it seem like he was dismissing race as a factor. He said class is the factor for most. But you managed to put him in the racist box so you automatically win the argument. Here’s what he said. The bolded part is thr but you cut to size and Called him ignorant. So I’m going to bow out of this conversation now before you think I’m going silent. I’d just rather not debate with someone who uses cheap tactics and paints everyone as a bigot to win the debate by default.

I see it more as a class or wealth issue rather than skin colour. People judge others on appearance but also how they speak. Yes skin colour can be a factor for some, but how you dress, how good looking you are, if you're over weight, aggressive or charming, if you remind them of someone they hate/love. All have a factor in how people react to you.
The police get a lot of stick, some deserved, some not. But it was the officers that asked for bodycams. Because they wanted interactions with the public recorded.

You do love a goal post move. It’s probably best you bow out before you make yourself look even sillier. As I said, this isn’t a debate. I’ve got your number mate

 

[glasgowspur]

This is why it’s dangerous. Your first and second paragraphs read exactly from the same though process and playbook as a bog standard MAGA or incel just with longer words and more eloquent. Peterson is becoming more of a laughing stock each day as he’s getting more publicity to the wider public.

You didn’t need to hold your hands up about Tom Daley, you just said you did. There were no half-rights, you got it completely wrong and were rightly called out for it with links for receipts.

You’re right, the left should be held accountable when they get things wholly wrong. As they often are and do. In this specific scenario, and why we’re having this conversation (just so you don’t attempt to shift goal posts again), you tried to use the situation in Iran and the banner of women empowerment to own the libs and make lazy, tiresome assumptions about the so-called liberal media.

I often find that people like JP who start off walking a debatable position soon veer off into idiocy the more desperate they get for publicity.
His original position on his rights on nouns/pronouns and gender was ok, if only because his rights should not be trumped by someone else's.
If it had stopped there then fair enough, but he has continued feed the media monster, so to me it has been just a push for fame and notoriety.

 

[AuroRaman]

I often find that people like JP who start off walking a debatable position soon veer off into idiocy the more desperate they get for publicity.
His original position on his rights on nouns/pronouns and gender was ok, if only because his rights should not be trumped by someone else's.
If it had stopped there then fair enough, but he has continued feed the media monster, so to me it has been just a push for fame and notoriety.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I think this is the same for many political and social commentators who have achieved notoriety.

 

[monkeybarry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63173533

Italy actively restricting energy use