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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

markysimmo said:
The six "milestones", external, which the government is aiming to meet by 2029 when the next election is likely to be held, are:

  • raising living standards in every part of the UK, as part of the government's aim to deliver the highest sustained economic growth in the G7 group of rich nations
  • building 1.5 million homes to give to illegal immigrants in England and fast-tracking planning decisions on at least 150 major infrastructure projects
  • ending hospital backlogs to meet the NHS target that 92% of patients in England wait no longer than 18 weeks for planned treatment
  • a named police officer for every neighbourhood in England and Wales, with the recruitment of 13,000 additional officers, Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) and special constables
  • increasing the proportion of children in England who are "ready to learn" when they start school at the age of five, to 75%
  • putting the country on track for at least 95% clean power by 2030
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What is the source for this?
 
Kompakted said:
Read my posts on this thread. I'm in favour of zero net migration policy for the next few decades. My guess is i'd be described as "right wing" or whatever.

BUT:
- Muslims have lived in this country in significant numbers since workers from Pakistan and the rest of the sub-continent were invited over to fill post-war labour shortages.
- The people that came over in the 60s and 70s were young and childless. They settled here in significant numbers and had children.
- The growth figures you're worried about are largely driven by this organic population growth to start with, with immigration exacerbating it.
- This is because the people that originally came here only just started dying, therefore you've only just started to reach the "stabilisation point" of that population.
- The "White British" population is relatively stable as people are dying all the time that babies are being born (although actually, birth rates even among white British are still exceeding death rates due to modern medicine and rising living standards and this contributes to the rapid population growth we've seen over the last few decades
- You've started to see trends point to a slowing of the growth rate in the Muslim population as a proportion and also a lot of that growth rate was artificial anyway as for example religion isn't a mandatory census question and the proportion filling it in increased dramatically from 2001 to 2011 and then increased from circa 92% in 2011 to 94% in 2021 and a disproportionate number of those are thought to be in Muslim and Jewish communities that feel threatened by disclosing their religion but have started to feel more comfortable in recent years...

So unless we are saying "deport all muslims", they're here to stay and part of our country and other than a minority of nut jobs aren't really threatening to destroy our culture.

The people that are threatening to destroy our culture are liberal left idiots that think that because we now have Muslims living in the country we need to change Christmas to "winter festival" and other garbage which most British Muslims roll their eyes at just as much as we do...
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I think having an eye on migration, dealing with illegal immigration is far from being right wing TBF, where it becomes right wing is when people make blanket statements about "migration" being an issue full stop, especially as you have pointed out many were invited, many here are essential to the working future of this country. What is it now, nearly a third of the UK working population is migrant, many of whom are
taking high skill jobs (so not only the cheap driving down work thats made out), 19% of the NHS is made up of migrants, again many of the upper workings like Drs and Nurses, many in the care side.

I keep churning on about blanket statements being unhelpful but its something I see as an important point. For years the Bangla/Muslim population of areas of Whitechapel and Bricklane etc all flew under the radar because they have been here since the 50s and have pretty much integrated into East London life, spent many years of my formative city life in the area and it was and still is brilliant. Now we have reform and Britain first nutters filming the Bangla signs of the train stations and streets and making out its something new and conflating there presence with the go to issues "Rotherham". And people drink it up "look whats happening to our country" when these people and those signs have existed for decades without issue what so ever.

People are being whipped up into a frenzy to be scared of something there is no reason to be scared about.
 
SkipRat said:
This is just insane... The protection that Islam/Muslims get... This is from Germany.

I women who criticised Muslim rapists of a child, got a longer prison sentence, than the rapists. All but one got off free, despite a video being made, with witnesses to teh video and DNA evidence.

humanevents.com

German woman sent to prison for ‘insulting’ migrants who gang raped child—her sentence is longer than theirs

humanevents.com humanevents.com
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Sums up the constant free passes the religion of peace seems to get in the modern world
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think having an eye on migration, dealing with illegal immigration is far from being right wing TBF, where it becomes right wing is when people make blanket statements about "migration" being an issue full stop, especially as you have pointed out many were invited, many here are essential to the working future of this country. What is it now, nearly a third of the UK working population is migrant, many of whom are
taking high skill jobs (so not only the cheap driving down work thats made out), 19% of the NHS is made up of migrants, again many of the upper workings like Drs and Nurses, many in the care side.

I keep churning on about blanket statements being unhelpful but its something I see as an important point. For years the Bangla/Muslim population of areas of Whitechapel and Bricklane etc all flew under the radar because they have been here since the 50s and have pretty much integrated into East London life, spent many years of my formative city life in the area and it was and still is brilliant. Now we have reform and Britain first nutters filming the Bangla signs of the train stations and streets and making out its something new and conflating there presence with the go to issues "Rotherham". And people drink it up "look whats happening to our country" when these people and those signs have existed for decades without issue what so ever.

People are being whipped up into a frenzy to be scared of something there is no reason to be scared about.
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Migration is an issue when it is enmass. 200,000+ people a year net, is massive problem for us. Food, infrastructure, housing, energy... The list goes on.

You just bury your head in the sand and pretend that consequences don;t exist. You are literally living in a land of fantasy and make believe.

You even had the audacity to call me a liar... When I was actually factually correct. Migrants, have higher unemplyment figures than White British, the only ones less likely to unemplyed, are white Europeans.

Nearly 10% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi migrants are unemployed.

You're just spewing out the same garbage rhetoric the likes of the guardian et al spew out.

We don't need mass migration to the UK to provide a working future. One of the biggest lies that has ever been told. The insanely greedy 1% need migration, as all they care about are bigger profit margins, or government being lazy to deal with pensions.... All mass migration is doing is feeding a downward spiral into oblivion.

Just utterly brainwashed.
 
thfcsteff said:
I appreciate this is the intended aim for many, alas I feel it is simply not really ever achieved when it comes to fundamental services within society. For me anyway, it's a bit like the concept of trickle down economics, which as I understand, essentially says that if a company is having huge successes then that success is shared with everyone involved. I do not believe that is the case in practice, however.
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A successful company employs more people, invests in more plant & equipment, pays dividends to shareholders who then spend their money in ways others can earn from, etc.

It does work, a global society makes it less effective (but then we also get a trickle down from other countries). But most of those labelling it as a failure do so because the wealth of those at the top isn't redistributed and that's somehow seen as unfair.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I understand why people have concerns, but it is all a bit circular. There is a natural tendency for people to congregate with 'their own'. It’s not all for bad reasons, there is just a level of comfort in being with what you ‘know’. So we see different nationalities moving into areas that were previously white British, so the latter move out, leaving more housing for the former to occupy. And then the white British complain that the immigrants do not integrate but choose to live in their own communities and the immigrants complain that they are ostracised from the rest of the local population. Chicken and egg.

I don't have any scientific evidence, only anecdotal, but I know women who are muslim and they are they are working full time in management positions, or mixing in the general workforce, or going to college/uni where they are doing part time work in restaurants/bars whilst studying, they have boyfriends/partners (not necessarily muslim, but sometimes they are, but nothing to indicate those boyfriends/partners are in any way controlling of them)/- they are living a life, as far as I can tell, that I would be happy for any of my family to be living.

The danger is that the broad brush approach that everything Islam is bad leads to people of that persuasion becoming defensive and insular (I am now anti-religion myself. Having been a practising catholic for many years, I do now have an aversion to anything religion but I know how criticism would rile me in the past). Maybe look at things differently : why not be welcoming, why not welcome and encourage the young (and older) women you think are so badly treated to pursue their ambitions? Why not help create a positive atmosphere rather than spewing bile? Yes, that is all quite idealistic and easier said than done. But hatred breeds hatred and we need to move away from that. Rather than giving snide or dirty looks at someone different when you see them on the train/in the pub/in the street/in the shops (not directed at you personally but I’ve seen plenty do it), smile, nod ‘hello’, or just ignore and walk on by. Stop judging based on appearance and pre-defined prejudice. Let people prove you wrong rather than expect them to prove you right.

And to be clear, I don't think criticism of Islam should be in anyway more restricted than criticism of any other religion. The problem is that critiscm of Islam is so closely intertwined with race that the boundaries between valid critique of religious orthodoxy vs plain rascim are so blurred that preventing the latter inhibits the former and they become interchangeable.
Stop assuming that everyone who is part of a muslim community thinks and behaves in exactly the same way and has the same adherence to strict religious dogma, and we might have half a chance of finding a harmonious co-existence.
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Post of the year.

Batspur said:
Why do we have to put up anti Muslim brick barriers in front of all our bridges, in front of our special buildings?
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They’re probably left over from when the white, largely Catholic IRA were trying to blow them up.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Key part for me, I always wonder what personal experiences people have had in order to form these levels of bigotry or is it out the Daily Mail/Twitter fact finding playbook. I always wonder if people purposely exclude certain types from their circles (the posts certainly suggest they would do given the hate of certain types) that IMO would only create further lack of knowledge that there are good people out in the world. Like you mate I have many an experience of absolutely lovely people who are Muslim, just like many other races and religions, then like everything there are terrible people in all walks of life who I have personal experience of, I can honestly say hand on heart given the random nature of horrible people you could not place them in any category, they just appear from anywhere.

Thats why IMO individuals get attacked on the street at work on on public transport, people forming and putting out blanket ideas about certain races and religions which are not indicative of the individuals, its a sad thing TBH
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No response to any of my questions from @Batspur either, and I was coming from a place of genuinely trying to understand. I appreciate my posting style isn't always of that mindset and isn't to everyone's taste, especially whiny right wing precious little snowflakes, I can't understand why! Boohoo isn't the world a tough place, there might might potentially be a female MOTD presenter, isn't life tough. Toughness has been mixed up with tediousness and a desperation to feel oppressed it seems, that's a privileged situation but oops there's another triggering word for folks...

People on both "sides" do it to a degree, some people's minds immediately go to the worst example of that thing and others are able to think beyond generalisations.

Take your picture posted later on (which was amusing, but perhaps not helpful much like some parts of this post for sensituve souls lol), if someone says the phrase "Brit on holiday", that's could be where people'smind goes. And others would upon hearing the phrase "British muslim" immediately jump to grooming gangs and whatever else. I guess some people are influenced by what they see in the real world but others just want some distraction doommongering to tell them who to blame. It's easier to put people into a category and our minds naturally focus on negatives a lot of the time. I'm not saying i'm beyond it either, there was a great line from Bill Burr about division and the current age where he said people just go to www.i'mright.com to confirm what they already believe - there's enough "information" out there that you can be convinced of anything despite the repressed cognitive dissonance bubbling under the surface.
 
scaramanga said:
A successful company employs more people, invests in more plant & equipment, pays dividends to shareholders who then spend their money in ways others can earn from, etc.

It does work, a global society makes it less effective (but then we also get a trickle down from other countries). But most of those labelling it as a failure do so because the wealth of those at the top isn't redistributed and that's somehow seen as unfair.
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No, trickle down doesn't work.

It works for a minoroty at the tap...

Whilst the rest slowly run into ground. Trickle down is the biggest lie ever told.

Edit -Here is the original one i was looking for


This one is still intetesting though.

 
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SkipRat said:
No, trickle down doesn't work.

It works for a minoroty at the tap...

Whilst the rest slowly run into ground. Trickle down is the biggest lie ever told.

Edit -Here is the original one i was looking for


This one is still intetesting though.

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The theory of trickle down is wrong in itself. Because it implies that people being trickled on can't be the ones doing the trickling. The thing is cyclical. If as a government you create a good economc environment, you get more wealthy people and more big companies that provide anchors, stable employment for lots of people.

Actually, if you have better opportunities at the bottom you end up with more at the top.
 
Its quite exciting what is going on in Syria. I like how Russia's frozen conflicts are steadily unfreezing as they become weaker.

I hope they go fully east after Damascus and kick the Russians and Israelis out for good too. And obviously that the moderates keep balancing the rebel alliance and initiate the journey to democracy. Syria is a country that has so much potential.

A nice side outcome will be if this finally helps the Kurds get a nation of their own (perhaps merging their Iraqi and Syrian held territories). Theyve been screwed over by the world more than about any people this last century.
 
SkipRat said:
No, trickle down doesn't work.

It works for a minoroty at the tap...

Whilst the rest slowly run into ground. Trickle down is the biggest lie ever told.

Edit -Here is the original one i was looking for


This one is still intetesting though.

Click to expand...
You'll have to define not working for me.

Not working as in the poor getting poorer or not working in that nonsensical gap getting larger flimflam?

Because in the former, successful businesses employ more people. More people have jobs and are therefore richer than they otherwise would be. Because of that they spend more money, some of which will be spent at the businesses at the start of the cycle. They will then employ more people, etc, etc.

Now in the latter case (the "not working" most people attribute to this form of economics) everyone's getting richer, everyone's improving their lot. But because the gap is widening and because jealousy, some people claim that as failure.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Its quite exciting what is going on in Syria. I like how Russia's frozen conflicts are steadily unfreezing as they become weaker.

I hope they go fully east after Damascus and kick the Russians and Israelis out for good too. And obviously that the moderates keep balancing the rebel alliance and initiate the journey to democracy. Syria is a country that has so much potential.

A nice side outcome will be if this finally helps the Kurds get a nation of their own (perhaps merging their Iraqi and Syrian held territories). Theyve been screwed over by the world more than about any people this last century.
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Kurds are never getting their own land.

People need to keep an eye on what Turkey is doing.#

 
scaramanga said:
You'll have to define not working for me.

Not working as in the poor getting poorer or not working in that nonsensical gap getting larger flimflam?

Because in the former, successful businesses employ more people. More people have jobs and are therefore richer than they otherwise would be. Because of that they spend more money, some of which will be spent at the businesses at the start of the cycle. They will then employ more people, etc, etc.

Now in the latter case (the "not working" most people attribute to this form of economics) everyone's getting richer, everyone's improving their lot. But because the gap is widening and because jealousy, some people claim that as failure.
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Successful businesses do hire more people....

Infact they do as much as the can not to, unless it is absolutely neccassry.

And you have clearly never struggled have?

You really haven't got a clue about living on £10 a week, or despite working, not being able to put heating on over winter, becaue you can't afford it.

It's not working, because more and more people are struggling to make ends meet... Not being able to afford a healthly diet...

Sorry, but on this subject you are clueless... Just becaue it worked for you, doesn;t mean it is working for everyone else.

It's not working, because people who are working, even minimum wage, should have to worry about about rent, bills, and struggle to raise their children.

The system is brick, it only benfits the few.
 
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