To increase to 8% of the population by 2050 they probably would have to treble. It's not inconsistent with my figures....which are not my figures BTW, they're official census figures, the most reliable population statistics that exist....I would like to get my hands on the report/study to see for myself, but I would rather trust their figures, not yours. Coz quite frankly you work in bank.
Like I said, would rather read the report myself, and they are far more qualified than you.
UK’s Muslim population could treble by 2050, research finds
The size of the UK’s Muslim population could treble by 2050 and will increase by more than half even if migration falls to zero, according to projections.The Pewww.thetimes.com
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Mohammed is the most popular name of babies born in this country....
there were over 300,000 male births in England & Wales in 2023. Mohammad made no. 1 with about 4,500. In all it's various spellings looked like it might have peaked at around 6,000. So i won't be getting measured for my mandatory shelwar kameez just yet....
I'm sure it's fine. Nothing to worry about.
Our culture is not worth defending. It's just a small minority. I'm sure this is just a blip.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
They will grow up in a culture that is the opposite of western ideals. That's fine. Live your life. But not in our country. We have moved on.
Islam is first for them. Even the most moderate Muslim believes Allah is all. It's not conducive to have sensibilities other than this.
We had the diet of worms over 500 years ago that said religion wasn't correct. We have evolved. GHod is not everything
Diet of Worms (1495) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
These idiots still think women are a sub species. They are backward. Medieval
But of course.... Diversity is our strength.
I understand why people have concerns, but it is all a bit circular. There is a natural tendency for people to congregate with 'their own'. It’s not all for bad reasons, there is just a level of comfort in being with what you ‘know’. So we see different nationalities moving into areas that were previously white British, so the latter move out, leaving more housing for the former to occupy. And then the white British complain that the immigrants do not integrate but choose to live in their own communities and the immigrants complain that they are ostracised from the rest of the local population. Chicken and egg.
I don't have any scientific evidence, only anecdotal, but I know women who are muslim and they are they are working full time in management positions, or mixing in the general workforce, or going to college/uni where they are doing part time work in restaurants/bars whilst studying, they have boyfriends/partners (not necessarily muslim, but sometimes they are, but nothing to indicate those boyfriends/partners are in any way controlling of them)/- they are living a life, as far as I can tell, that I would be happy for any of my family to be living.
The danger is that the broad brush approach that everything Islam is bad leads to people of that persuasion becoming defensive and insular (I am now anti-religion myself. Having been a practising catholic for many years, I do now have an aversion to anything religion but I know how criticism would rile me in the past). Maybe look at things differently : why not be welcoming, why not welcome and encourage the young (and older) women you think are so badly treated to pursue their ambitions? Why not help create a positive atmosphere rather than spewing bile? Yes, that is all quite idealistic and easier said than done. But hatred breeds hatred and we need to move away from that. Rather than giving snide or dirty looks at someone different when you see them on the train/in the pub/in the street/in the shops (not directed at you personally but I’ve seen plenty do it), smile, nod ‘hello’, or just ignore and walk on by. Stop judging based on appearance and pre-defined prejudice. Let people prove you wrong rather than expect them to prove you right.
And to be clear, I don't think criticism of Islam should be in anyway more restricted than criticism of any other religion. The problem is that critiscm of Islam is so closely intertwined with race that the boundaries between valid critique of religious orthodoxy vs plain rascim are so blurred that preventing the latter inhibits the former and they become interchangeable.
Stop assuming that everyone who is part of a muslim community thinks and behaves in exactly the same way and has the same adherence to strict religious dogma, and we might have half a chance of finding a harmonious co-existence.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Looking at it from that perspective it's hard to disagree with what you're saying. I suppose it's worth reiterating that my thought has always been staple utilities should not be in private hands, having said that, given the model in place, what you're saying makes sense.
I think that is a fair and balanced viewpoint. And from someone who is a clearly decent human being. I wish everyone was like you. Problem is I don't think everyone is like you. I think folks that follow the religion of peace put Allah above all. I think they are backward. I think they are not compatible to modern western values.
Why do we have to put up anti Muslim brick barriers in front of all our bridges, in front of our special buildings? Why do we have to accept honour killings? Why do we have to accept grooming gangs? This isn't our culture. Why do we have to accept they treat women as second class citizens?
Islam is a cancer. It has been for 15 hundred years. It adds nothing to our culture. I honestly don't know what Islam adds for the world. I would genuinely be happy and be educated to know what it adds to the world. I do accept that in the first stages of their enlightenment mathematics was wonder. But it was based on Isaac Newtons laws.
I'm not religious, but like you had a catholic upbringing. I can see what that did in shaping the world. But islam? Please educate me.
There's a problem with privatisation when you look at basic infrastructure.
You can't expect a franchise operator to build a joined up network of underlying structure. You need a separate company to do that part.
It worked really well with BT. Not so well with the railways. I don't know enough about these kinds of projects to tell you why one works and one doesnt.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Indeed...which makes me wonder why governments in the past allowed important utilities to be privatised...beyond the making money bit of course. It comes down (again) to economics versus service? Ah well, I suppose if I go on about it for another couple of years, the cobwebs of idealism will eventually cease to exist altogether and the history of a few decades plus reality will finally establish themselves in my stubborn mind!!!
The main reason is to improve service at a lower price to taxpayers - like BT.
There's also been a lot of improvement on the billing/switching side with utilities. Although in recent years the price cap has meant that the govt have unwittingly created a pricing cartel.
The important part of privatisation is to allow the consumer choice. If I don't like the service from BT, I can move to any one of dozens of telecoms suppliers - thst makes them both efficient and higher quality. My kids' school is better than most partly because of funding but heavily because it has to be. It wouldn't have any pupils if it weren't better than most other schools.
There's not much crossover in service on, for example, railways. From where I live I can choose between Southern and South Western railways to head into London. I don't get the train often enough to tell you which is the good one, but I do remember one is fudging terrible and I will go out of my way to avoid it. Most can't do that. So there's no imperative to be good, no drive to improve, no price to beat, etc.
How does that trend work in religions that ban the emancipation and equal rights of women?
Usually that kind of nonsense results in steadily high birth rates.
richie_spur
Stephen Kelly
We can sort out the issue easily enough. From now on, every first born lad must be called 'Brian', with every second born called 'Steve'. Girls can be called Sharon and Tracy. We'll have sorted this in few years and show 'em, eh?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
We can sort out the issue easily enough. From now on, every first born lad must be called 'Brian', with every second born called 'Steve'. Girls can be called Sharon and Tracy. We'll have sorted this in few years and show 'em, eh?
Brian is a French name though, doesn’t that mean we’ll be overtaken by French culture?
Sharon is another religious based name, non Christian, so that’s gonna have the same problem as Mohammed.
Who knew peoples entire life was laid out the second they were given a name.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Spot on, great post
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I appreciate this is the intended aim for many, alas I feel it is simply not really ever achieved when it comes to fundamental services within society. For me anyway, it's a bit like the concept of trickle down economics, which as I understand, essentially says that if a company is having huge successes then that success is shared with everyone involved. I do not believe that is the case in practice, however.
spurspinter1
Pat van den Hauwe
It seems like you've glanced at Glenda's post (a tremendous one I should say), shrugged and then reverted to whatever it is you were hellbent on saying anyway.
Who is asking you to accept grooming gangs? I'm not sure if you're aware but Catholism has had what some might call a PR problem in regards to child abuse in various forms, are you being asked to accept that? Is it more agreeable because it's something more like "our culture"?
Have you had many negative experiences with Muslims in real life? Like actual instances, of the things you're clearly so worried about, so they must have impacted you in actuality. I can't remember who it was but another poster was having fits about non binary people, but couldn't actually say how it affected them if people would be referred to using a different personal pronoun than what you might assume. Now, I might regret bringing that up as its a whole different issue, but I hope you see there's a slight link.
I've got lots of muslim students, in recent times numerous Egyptian ladies, who yes, may be wearing some kind of hair covering, shock horror. They're lovely people who are by choice looking to improve their language skills, I don't think it's part of some evil plot to enforce the rules of their religion on the world. Sure it's anecdotal to a point, but lived experiences are fairly important.
Would you say "Islam is a cancer" to someone who you knew is a Muslim? Or is it something you feel more comfortable sharing on the Internet?
FWIW I'm not really all that into organised religion, but it can be a positive thing for people, much like it can be negative, so cancer comes across as a rather strong label that only acknowledges one side. Whilst there's a lot of wisdom to be found in various stories, it's not be taken literally, separation of church and state should be a given.
I bet loads of scousers with no links to Islamic culture have probably named their kids Mo for obvious reasons, perhaps that's what has tipped the balance! But what's in a name? Without wanting to come off as mocking you (is this what they call personal development!?!?), I find it hard to understand what you're upset / worried about.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Key part for me, I always wonder what personal experiences people have had in order to form these levels of bigotry or is it out the Daily Mail/Twitter fact finding playbook. I always wonder if people purposely exclude certain types from their circles (the posts certainly suggest they would do given the hate of certain types) that IMO would only create further lack of knowledge that there are good people out in the world. Like you mate I have many an experience of absolutely lovely people who are Muslim, just like many other races and religions, then like everything there are terrible people in all walks of life who I have personal experience of, I can honestly say hand on heart given the random nature of horrible people you could not place them in any category, they just appear from anywhere.
Thats why IMO individuals get attacked on the street at work on on public transport, people forming and putting out blanket ideas about certain races and religions which are not indicative of the individuals, its a sad thing TBH
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I think those outlets actively cause radicalisation as well, they don't just reflect it. They make people feel afraid of things that aren't real.
As you say, people all over the world fit into the 90:10 categorisation. 90% are lovely, 10% are clams. Maybe inland America skews slightly higher to the later.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
I was actually going to say yesterday that some views on here could be deemed extreme by definition, like you say people living in some level of irrational fear
Pete and Repeat will be on later to give it some Tommy Robinson as Jive Bunny action
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Read my posts on this thread. I'm in favour of zero net migration policy for the next few decades. My guess is i'd be described as "right wing" or whatever.
BUT:
- Muslims have lived in this country in significant numbers since workers from Pakistan and the rest of the sub-continent were invited over to fill post-war labour shortages.
- The people that came over in the 60s and 70s were young and childless. They settled here in significant numbers and had children.
- The growth figures you're worried about are largely driven by this organic population growth to start with, with immigration exacerbating it.
- This is because the people that originally came here only just started dying, therefore you've only just started to reach the "stabilisation point" of that population.
- The "White British" population is relatively stable as people are dying all the time that babies are being born (although actually, birth rates even among white British are still exceeding death rates due to modern medicine and rising living standards and this contributes to the rapid population growth we've seen over the last few decades
- You've started to see trends point to a slowing of the growth rate in the Muslim population as a proportion and also a lot of that growth rate was artificial anyway as for example religion isn't a mandatory census question and the proportion filling it in increased dramatically from 2001 to 2011 and then increased from circa 92% in 2011 to 94% in 2021 and a disproportionate number of those are thought to be in Muslim and Jewish communities that feel threatened by disclosing their religion but have started to feel more comfortable in recent years...
So unless we are saying "deport all muslims", they're here to stay and part of our country and other than a minority of nut jobs aren't really threatening to destroy our culture.
The people that are threatening to destroy our culture are liberal left idiots that think that because we now have Muslims living in the country we need to change Christmas to "winter festival" and other garbage which most British Muslims roll their eyes at just as much as we do...