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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur Vs Watford***

Hotshot-Tottenham said:
Wha?

Look at the picture. The ball is about halfway across the thickness of the line.

That is a dead straight angle. It's the still taken where the 'camera' zooms in, goes through the post and goes in for the close up in the replay.

I'd estimate there's 1.5 to 2 inches of line to go there. Not millimetres.
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Ignore him.
 
StephenH said:
Overall my take was we were poor at times for us compared to resent games, but we worked our arses off and Watford were good fighters.
This was our second game in 48 hours and we got 3 points = Happy
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Exactly.
And every team splutters a bit around Xmas time - spluttering and winning is certainly a habit I like
 
Jurgen the German said:
I assume you were quoting Modric because I never said we got "battered".

Personally, I felt that Watford were more likely to win the game in the last 10 minutes than we were. They were centimetres away from taking the lead, Dier then made a great block to prevent an almost certain goal from Deeney, this once again was with 10 men.

I know you always like to be positive, but from a performance point of view, there's not much to take away from today's game.

The big positive is that we won whilst being nowhere near our best, teams that want to finish in the top 4 have to win ugly at times.
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at last somebody talking sense.

I'm sure everyone would be absolutely livid if we lost a game with the fashion Watford did it today.
1) they gave us only one goal scoring opportunity in the last 30 minutes after the red card
2) that goal scoring opportunity shouldn't resulted in goal because Son was at least one time in offside position
3) they didn't only sit back but could score at least 3 times during last 10 minutes and made us panic in defence. Lloris didn't catch a single ball altough there were a couple of situations when he should do it to slow their tempo. Rose couldn't make a single defensive action properly and presented them a couple of corners. Obviously we develop some sort of winning mentality under Poch but we also lost 11 points from winning positions this season (if my memory doesn't fail me).

So there is a lot work to do.
However I don't think we should focus on bad spells from today game because it was a very tricky away fixture against the in-form opponent. Plus it is the most difficult EPL period and we needed to rotate.

I also fully agree with big positive you mentioned. This was the main thing we should carry from the game and build our future perfomances with its help. But we also shouldn't overreact and start talking about title challenging. It's too early for these days and such talks has continuously beat us during previous seasons. Top-4 is a direct real aim and moving from match to match we'll see if we're able to achieve more.
 
braineclipse said:
Yes. That was Modric. I was quoting both of you with my initial post as I disagreed with both descriptions of our performance.

I like to be positive. I also like to be realistic. I also like to use words in a way that seems reasonable. We're two years away from AVB (who you hated) and Sherwood (who many other hated) and both a situation and performances that truly could be described as crap. Words lose their meaning for me if this was well described as a crap performance.

Do you agree that we deserved a point based on our performance?
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That's fine, I like to be realistic also. The title is a dream IMO, but the top 4 is a VERY achievable target.

So are you saying that because AVB or Sherwood are no longer managing the club that we can't criticise a Poch performance when we have a bad game because he is a better manager than those two and has us playing better? Alex Ferguson's teams produced some crap displays, he's the greatest manager ever but it's OK to to discuss a bad performance when they occur, it doesn't make you any less supportive than fans who are still positive when we lose 6-0.

I think we deserved a point today, we did not deserve to win IMO but I don't care. The result is harsh on Watford who limited us to 1, maybe 2 clear cut chances, with 10 men for nearly 30 minutes.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That's fine, I like to be realistic also. The title is a dream IMO, but the top 4 is a VERY achievable target.

So are you saying that because AVB or Sherwood are no longer managing the club that we can't criticise a Poch performance when we have a bad game because he is a better manager than those two and has us playing better? Alex Ferguson's teams produced some crap displays, he's the greatest manager ever but it's OK to to discuss a bad performance when they occur, it doesn't make you any less supportive than fans who are still positive when we lose 6-0.

I think we deserved a point today, we did not deserve to win IMO but I don't care. The result is harsh on Watford who limited us to 1, maybe 2 clear cut chances, with 10 men for nearly 30 minutes.
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I'm saying that a performance that deserves a draw away to an in form Watford team that was 3 points behind us when the game started, that also beat Liverpool 3-0 at home recently, is not well described as us "playing crap".

I'm not saying we can't criticise a Poch performance, that's just a straw man. I'm saying the criticism from yourself and Modric THFC lacks nuance and is over the top.
 
Unfortunately you don't always get what you want. We all want spurs to win, in style and playing well in every game.
However in the real world it doesn't always happen. Sometimes we play well and lose (man u away in August), today we were below our best against a very good team, rode our luck but came out on top. We now need to take this momentum and push on - 4 points off 1st place puts us in the hunt for the title. Name a team that has gone on to win the title who didn't row their luck!
 
Jurgen the German said:
That's fine, I like to be realistic also. The title is a dream IMO, but the top 4 is a VERY achievable target.

So are you saying that because AVB or Sherwood are no longer managing the club that we can't criticise a Poch performance when we have a bad game because he is a better manager than those two and has us playing better? Alex Ferguson's teams produced some crap displays, he's the greatest manager ever but it's OK to to discuss a bad performance when they occur, it doesn't make you any less supportive than fans who are still positive when we lose 6-0.

I think we deserved a point today, we did not deserve to win IMO but I don't care. The result is harsh on Watford who limited us to 1, maybe 2 clear cut chances, with 10 men for nearly 30 minutes.
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Always fair to criticise mate and you should never apologise for it. In support of Brain though I can see what he is saying, to put it into context, we beat, Leicester aside, the most in form team in the premier league- away. Ighalo and Deeney are a fearsome strike force. I was bricking it before this match. The result is massive and that could not have been achieved with a "bad performance." It is fairer to say we ground out an impressive win. My only concern today, was the loss of Dembele in the first half.
 
Hidden said:
at last somebody talking sense.

I'm sure everyone would be absolutely livid if we lost a game with the fashion Watford did it today.
1) they gave us only one goal scoring opportunity in the last 30 minutes after the red card
2) that goal scoring opportunity shouldn't resulted in goal because Son was at least one time in offside position
3) they didn't only sit back but could score at least 3 times during last 10 minutes and made us panic in defence. Lloris didn't catch a single ball altough there were a couple of situations when he should do it to slow their tempo. Rose couldn't make a single defensive action properly and presented them a couple of corners. Obviously we develop some sort of winning mentality under Poch but we also lost 11 points from winning positions this season (if my memory doesn't fail me).

So there is a lot work to do.
However I don't think we should focus on bad spells from today game because it was a very tricky away fixture against the in-form opponent. Plus it is the most difficult EPL period and we needed to rotate.

I also fully agree with big positive you mentioned. This was the main thing we should carry from the game and build our future perfomances with its help. But we also shouldn't overreact and start talking about title challenging. It's too early for these days and such talks has continuously beat us during previous seasons. Top-4 is a direct real aim and moving from match to match we'll see if we're able to achieve more.
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I think this is a very fair appraisal of today tbh.
 
Absolutely FANTASTIC result!

Like others i was extremely worried about how we could be bullied by Deeney and - especially - Ighalo.
Great GREAT result, even if from the sounds of things we weren't at our best. But remember that game came 48 hours after our last game, which we played VERY well.

I don't think it's been very often in the xmas/new year period that we've played two games 48 hours apart and gained maximum points.
Well done to all.

COYS!!!!
 
Good post from Hidden above, sums it up well. A strange formation, strange match with Dembele going off and Ake being sent off... hard to analyse.

How is Dembele?
Where was Bentaleb?
Did Chadli touch it?
 
I think it speaks volumes about how far the team has come when folks look at this performance against an in-form team away as crap.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm saying that a performance that deserves a draw away to an in form Watford team that was 3 points behind us when the game started, that also beat Liverpool 3-0 at home recently, is not well described as us "playing crap".

I'm not saying we can't criticise a Poch performance, that's just a straw man. I'm saying the criticism from yourself and Modric THFC lacks nuance and is over the top.
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I'm over the moon with how the season has gone so far and Poch is doing a brilliant job. I wish we would kill teams off more efficiently but that's nitpicking.

That aside, I stand by what I said. We did not play well. If you think we played well then good for you, but as I said before, I have very, very rarely seen you admit that we have actually played badly on this forum in 5 years so I'm genuinely not sure what it would take for you to say we played bad.

We created two clear cut chances in the game, one of which was the winner that could and perhaps should have been given offside.
 
Robspur12 said:
Always fair to criticise mate and you should never apologise for it. In support of Brain though I can see what he is saying, to put it into context, we beat, Leicester aside, the most in form team in the premier league- away. Ighalo and Deeney are a fearsome strike force. I was bricking it before this match. The result is massive and that could not have been achieved with a "bad performance." It is fairer to say we ground out an impressive win. My only concern today, was the loss of Dembele in the first half.
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I too was fearing the worst before the game.

I have to disagree about the performance, it is possible to win games whilst playing badly (which we did today), all the top teams do it, it's not a bad thing, it's actually a very good thing. As others have said, Man United did it for decades under Fergie.

Regardless of how well we have performed this season, it's silly and naive to expect that level of performance every week, every team in the world has blips. People should be allowed to vent a bit during the match and after if they wish to do so, people should also have the right to oppose such views. However, I do the resent the rhetoric of "oh look the negative clams are out in force" if people point out a bad performance from an individual or the team. I refuse to name names, but even I can't fathom the criticism that certain players receive on here sometimes, but don't lump everyone in the same bracket that's all (not aimed at you btw).
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm over the moon with how the season has gone so far and Poch is doing a brilliant job. I wish we would kill teams off more efficiently but that's nitpicking.

That aside, I stand by what I said. We did not play well. If you think we played well then good for you, but as I said before, I have very, very rarely seen you admit that we have actually played badly on this forum in 5 years so I'm genuinely not sure what it would take for you to say we played bad.

We created two clear cut chances in the game, one of which was the winner that could and perhaps should have been given offside.
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"We did not play well" = "we played crap"?

It would have to be a lot worse than today for me to say we played crap. I thought today we performed about as expected. Somewhat worse than I hoped for, a lot better than I feared, ever so slightly worse than I though realistically I could expect.
 
braineclipse said:
"We did not play well" = "we played crap"?

It would have to be a lot worse than today for me to say we played crap. I thought today we performed about as expected. Somewhat worse than I hoped for, a lot better than I feared, ever so slightly worse than I though realistically I could expect.
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I don't like to repeat the same words or sentences over and over so I'm not going to say "we played crap" in every post, I might word it differently tomorrow when I post. Perhaps your definition of playing well is different to mine.

When Watford had Ake sent off, would you have expected them to look the more dangerous side? Just because we won the game doesn't mean we deserved to.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I too was fearing the worst before the game.

I have to disagree about the performance, it is possible to win games whilst playing badly (which we did today), all the top teams do it, it's not a bad thing, it's actually a very good thing. As others have said, Man United did it for decades under Fergie.

Regardless of how well we have performed this season, it's silly and naive to expect that level of performance every week, every team in the world has blips. People should be allowed to vent a bit during the match and after if they wish to do so, people should also have the right to oppose such views. However, I do the resent the rhetoric of "oh look the negative clams are out in force" if people point out a bad performance from an individual or the team. I refuse to name names, but even I can't fathom the criticism that certain players receive on here sometimes, but don't lump everyone in the same bracket that's all (not aimed at you btw).
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My biggest disappointment from today, as I said, is that dembele is now out injured. We are definitely weaker without him and we have 2 tough games coming up.
 
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