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Olympic games Paris 2024

Athletes from little Northern Ireland, who are representing either Ireland or Team GB, have now won 4 Golds! Amazing!

Daniel Whiffen: swimming 800m freestyle for Ireland.
Jack McMillan: swimming Men's 4x200m relay for Team GB.
Hannah Scott: women's quadruple sculls for Team GB.
Rhys McClenaghan: Men's Pommel Horse for Ireland.

Whiffen has another swim to come in the 1500m final, plus the 10k.

Prior to Paris, Northern Ireland Athletes had only won 3 Golds ever! Mary Peters in the 1972 pentathlon and two from the Team GB hockey in 1988.
 
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nelto said:
Athletes from little Northern Ireland, who are representing either Ireland or Team GB, have now won 4 Golds! Amazing!

Daniel Whiffen: swimming 800m freestyle for Ireland.
Jack McMillan: swimming Men's 4x200m relay for Team GB.
Hannah Scott: women's quadruple sculls for Team GB.
Rhys McClenaghan: Men's Pommel Horse for Ireland.

Whiffen has another swim in the 1500m final, plus the 10k.

Prior to Paris, Northern Ireland Athletes had only won 3 Golds ever! Mary Peters in the 1972 pentathlon and two from the Team GB hockey in 1988.
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Superb. A gold in gymnastics is pretty unreal.
 
DubSpur said:
The conversation was obviously about biology and not identity politics. You're typical of the woke phalanx, trying to find offense in everything.

To paraphrase that great philosopher Ricky Gervais, you've the right to tell me that you find something distasteful (offended) and I've the right not to give a fudge.
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You have every right not to give a fudge. You come off as offended yourself.

If not calling a woman a man is too much to ask from you because you don't give a fudge, fine, that is as you say your right.
 
Pádraig Plaisteach said:
Every person with DSD is either male or female. Pretending that there is a third sex, or that sex is a spectrum, is an ideological stance, not a scientific one.

People can identify as they wish, but in some contexts sex matters. Combat sport is one of those contexts. Safety and fairness are more important than hurt feelings.
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What I have said is that people who are intersex don't always fit neatly into the sex binary. This is imo clearly scientifically true.

You say people can identify as they wish. But you speaking about her not only as she identifies, but how she's lived her entire life is too much to ask for?
Pádraig Plaisteach said:
I am not being mean spirited, I am commenting on the safety of women in boxing. I would say the same things as I say here to Khelif in the highly unlikely event that I meet Khelif. The failed test was not a testosterone test, it was a chromosone test.

Here's some more info on DSD and sports -


https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Womens-sport-and-DSDs.pdf
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So you would say to her face that she's a man, you would talk about her as a man with her being present.

Totally not an ideological stance. Normal fine good human behaviour to do stuff like that.

Someone has grown up and lived her life as a woman and you insist on calling her a man, repeatedly. Yeah, not ideological at all.
 
Pádraig Plaisteach said:
Colin Wright is a biologist. There is no reputable peer-reviewed science supporting the claim that sex is other than binary. There are two types of gametes, large and small.

Science is not a left v right issue. The fact that women's sport needs protecting tells us what we need to now. The attempts by men to enter women's sports have nothing to do science and everything to do with a reactionary and anti-scientific ideology which threatens the progress made by women and LGB people in the last century.
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This has nothing to do with men attempting to enter women's sport.

Also science is very much used politically. Scientists can be consciously or unconsciously biased or their work used for left or right perspectives. Smoking, homosexuality, climate change all spring out as quick and obvious examples where 'science' was used to support certain points of view.
 
Lost Mango said:
This has nothing to do with men attempting to enter women's sport.

Also science is very much used politically. Scientists can be consciously or unconsciously biased or their work used for left or right perspectives. Smoking, homosexuality, climate change all spring out as quick and obvious examples where 'science' was used to support certain points of view.
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Scientists in general are pretty liberal people. Clearly that doesn’t mean 100% of them are though. This situation more than anything should be about fairness and safety.
 
braineclipse said:
You have every right not to give a fudge. You come off as offended yourself.

If not calling a woman a man is too much to ask from you because you don't give a fudge, fine, that is as you say your right.
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What part of IF she has an XY chromosomes then biologically she is a man do you not get?
If you find science distasteful that's your problem.

When speaking about her I have used her preferred pronouns. I couldn't care less if people identify as a male, female, or whatever, it has no impact on me. Again you're just looking to find offence whereeever you can and it's boring.
 
DubSpur said:
What part of IF she has an XY chromosomes then biologically she is a man do you not get?
If you find science distasteful that's your problem.

When speaking about her I have used her preferred pronouns. I couldn't care less if people identify as a male, female, or whatever, it has no impact on me. Again you're just looking to find offence whereeever you can and it's boring.
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Apparently she has a uterus, ovaries and a vagina. The ability to produce eggs would make her a female whether she is XX or XY. That would be science.
 
Lost Mango said:
Apparently she has a uterus, ovaries and a vagina. The ability to produce eggs would make her a female whether she is XX or XY. That would be science.
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Yes, in very rare cases of DSD that is possible. And if she has XY chromosome she is genotypic male and that is separate from the phenotypic sex as I stated previously. Again, that's why there should be protocols in place to determine if she should be allowed to compete in order to make sure the sport is safe and also it would've stopped the attention, quite possibly unfairly, she is getting.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
This shouldn’t be conflated with trans participation in sport. But like trans people, she has an unfair advantage and shouldn’t be allowed to compete against other women IMO. This is a prime example of why we need another category such as an ‘open category’ where anyone (trans, DSD) can compete. Yes the field might not be very big at the moment but it will most likely grow in the future and it solves the issue of excluding them from competing. Its not perfect and some won’t think it’s fair but it’s a hell of a lot fairer and safer than allowing people like her to compete against women, especially in a violent sport like boxing.
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Spot on.
 
DubSpur said:
Yes, in very rare cases of DSD that is possible. And if she has XY chromosome she is genotypic male and that is separate from the phenotypic sex as I stated previously. Again, that's why there should be protocols in place to determine if she should be allowed to compete in order to make sure the sport is safe and also it would've stopped the attention, quite possibly unfairly, she is getting.
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Melissa Bishop finished 4th in the women 800m final in Rio 2016. Gold, silver and bronze ALL had high testosterone levels and therefore had an advantage including Caster Semenya. Imagine how gutted Bishop must have felt at the time finishing below not one but three athletes under those circumstances and missing out on a medal.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Melissa Bishop finished 4th in the women 800m final in Rio 2016. Gold, silver and bronze ALL had high testosterone levels and therefore had an advantage including Caster Semenya. Imagine how gutted Bishop must have felt at the time finishing below not one but three athletes under those circumstances and missing out on a medal.
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Yup, and again it's why there should be proper protocols in place. It's bad enough happening in athletics, the stakes are higher in any of the combat sports where serious physical damage can be done.
 
DubSpur said:
Yup, and again it's why there should be proper protocols in place. It's bad enough happening in athletics, the stakes are higher in any of the combat sports where serious physical damage can be done.
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And it’s been caused by the IOC who are spineless and like a lot of organisations, want to seen as being progressive even if that is at odds with fairness, integrity and safety.
 
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