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Olympic games Paris 2024

Did anyone see the table tennis final? The Swede lost, but he had an insane ball from below the table, curling it back to his own side of the table - insane shot. Those guys are crazy good.
 
nelto said:
Athletes from little Northern Ireland, who are representing either Ireland or Team GB, have now won 4 Golds! Amazing!

Daniel Whiffen: swimming 800m freestyle for Ireland.
Jack McMillan: swimming Men's 4x200m relay for Team GB.
Hannah Scott: women's quadruple sculls for Team GB.
Rhys McClenaghan: Men's Pommel Horse for Ireland.

Whiffen has another swim to come in the 1500m final, plus the 10k.

Prior to Paris, Northern Ireland Athletes had only won 3 Golds ever! Mary Peters in the 1972 pentathlon and two from the Team GB hockey in 1988.
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Keep this up and someone might even bother getting round to updating the country's name to Team UK! It happened with the stickers for cars recently didn't it
 
DubSpur said:
What part of IF she has an XY chromosomes then biologically she is a man do you not get?
If you find science distasteful that's your problem.

When speaking about her I have used her preferred pronouns. I couldn't care less if people identify as a male, female, or whatever, it has no impact on me. Again you're just looking to find offence whereeever you can and it's boring.
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Intersex (hermaphrodites in old language) is a really complex thing. There is no black and white, it's completely grey. No two individuals have the same physical and biological place on the spectrum between the two genders.

Its very different to the trans issue, where there is now an emerging consensus (that M to Fs shouldn't participate in female contact or competitive sports). There's even more delicacy and compassion needed with this, because there's no choice involved in it.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Intersex (hermaphrodites in old language) is a really complex thing. There is no black and white, it's completely grey. No two individuals have the same physical and biological place on the spectrum between the two genders.

Its very different to the trans issue, where there is now an emerging consensus (that M to Fs shouldn't participate in female contact or competitive sports). There's even more delicacy and compassion needed with this, because there's no choice involved in it.
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The issue is also its heresay around her circumstances
There has been no evidence released from the IBF ruling
 
“Triathlon mixed relay”

Of All the contrived events at the olympics!

There are too many medal events in things like cycling swimming and athletics as it is.
 
Lost Mango said:
Colin Wright works for a right wing thinktank (Manhatten Institure) and is presenting at an organisation that was set up to solely protect women's sport which might suggest an echo chamber effect. There are plenty of reputable publications that argue that sex in non-binary. That isn't just 'idealogy'.There is genuine scientific discourse on this.

Biologically the definition is a male produces numerous, small gametes and females produce fewer, more energy rich gametes. In humans this tends to correlate to the XY/XY chromosome definition but is not totally binary. The Y chromosome has a significant role in activating the 60+ other chromosomal regions that play a role in transitioning the 'female' embryo to the male but it isn't the only player in the game
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So there are over 60 biolochemical differences between men and women?
 
johnola said:
So there are over 60 biolochemical differences between men and women?
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There are 60+ biochemicals that are involved in the masculinising of the human embryo. Sections of the Y chromosome activate some of them. Others switch on at different stages of embryonic development. Some are also present in females but are activated at different stages of development and may have different outcomes.

Most of this is fairly recent science and not all of it has been mapped out by any means. The implications of what happens if some don't activate, for example. But it demonstrates that the XX/XY concept of sex is simplistic GCSE entry level rather than a definitive concept.
 
Lost Mango said:
There are 60+ biochemicals that are involved in the masculinising of the human embryo. Sections of the Y chromosome activate some of them. Others switch on at different stages of embryonic development. Some are also present in females but are activated at different stages of development and may have different outcomes.

Most of this is fairly recent science and not all of it has been mapped out by any means. The implications of what happens if some don't activate, for example. But it demonstrates that the XX/XY concept of sex is simplistic GCSE entry level rather than a definitive concept.
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What is certain is that the IOC need to grow a spine and implement proper protocols in time for the next Olympics in 4 years. Can’t have another situation like what happened in the boxing. There can’t be this doubt and speculation about whether a person is eligible, it’s not fair to the athlete who is being mocked online either. And if they’re not eligible then don’t let them compete. If it’s not fair and safe for the women then don’t let them compete.
 
Jurgen the German said:
What is certain is that the IOC need to grow a spine and implement proper protocols in time for the next Olympics in 4 years. Can’t have another situation like what happened in the boxing. There can’t be this doubt and speculation about whether a person is eligible, it’s not fair to the athlete who is being mocked online either. And if they’re not eligible then don’t let them compete. If it’s not fair and safe for the women then don’t let them compete.
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That’s the kicker
The IOCs issue here is they normally would work with an authority but the IBF has kinda fallen apart with their Russian “ownership” so they have just winged it
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s the kicker
The IOCs issue here is they normally would work with an authority but the IBF has kinda fallen apart with their Russian “ownership” so they have just winged it
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And they don’t want to be seen as excluding people which I get but that cannot come above the integrity of the sport and the safety of the athletes.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s a no win unless they dealt with it much, much earlier
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Whether it's the person who is intersex, dsd or some other genuine medical condition or athletes being asked to compete against another athlete with a biological advantage one of them is going to feel it's an unfair situation.
There is no easy answers here and the IOC should have been much more proactive in finding a solution.
 
glasgowspur said:
Whether it's the person who is intersex, dsd or some other genuine medical condition or athletes being asked to compete against another athlete with a biological advantage one of them is going to feel it's an unfair situation.
There is no easy answers here and the IOC should have been much more proactive in finding a solution.
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I think the IOC have been ok in this, in that the body that banned these people is known to be in the pocket of the Russians. Nothing was finally shared with the IOC which would lead them to ban them too
Damned if they do…
These people aren’t unbeatable by the way …. They have lost fights to women
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think the IOC have been ok in this, in that the body that banned these people is known to be in the pocket of the Russians. Nothing was finally shared with the IOC which would lead them to ban them too
Damned if they do…
These people aren’t unbeatable by the way …. They have lost fights to women
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Definitely been given the fuzzy end of the lollipop, I think they could have been a bit more on top of it.
 
glasgowspur said:
Whether it's the person who is intersex, dsd or some other genuine medical condition or athletes being asked to compete against another athlete with a biological advantage one of them is going to feel it's an unfair situation.
There is no easy answers here and the IOC should have been much more proactive in finding a solution.
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Doesn't Phelps have a biological advantage over 99.9% of athletes? Can't remember specifically what it was but the guy doesn't produce lactic acid in the same way as most humans and has super bendy joints (as you can tell I am not a scientist but I'm sure there was something of this ilk that sets him apart).

Discipline and skill are massive factors but occasionally people are just built better for a certain sport / activity, that's pretty normal isn't it?
 
spurspinter1 said:
Doesn't Phelps have a biological advantage over 99.9% of athletes? Can't remember specifically what it was but the guy doesn't produce lactic acid in the same way as most humans and has super bendy joints (as you can tell I am not a scientist but I'm sure there was something of this ilk that sets him apart).

Discipline and skill are massive factors but occasionally people are just built better for a certain sport / activity, that's pretty normal isn't it?
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I've never heard that about Phelps, but then I've no interest in swimming. Interesting.
There's different levels, what separates you and me for instance from a guy playing non league, from a guy in the championship all the way up to the elites in sport who obviously have that certain mental drive to make the best of themselves and and physical advantage they have.
And being fortunate enough to have a chance to participate and enjoy a sport that you are physically built for.
There's a reason only a very small percentage of people go on to be the elite, and for me a gold medal in the Olympics qualifies as elite, it's not easy.
There's so many components that go in to make it a success it's not just one single issue.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Doesn't Phelps have a biological advantage over 99.9% of athletes? Can't remember specifically what it was but the guy doesn't produce lactic acid in the same way as most humans and has super bendy joints (as you can tell I am not a scientist but I'm sure there was something of this ilk that sets him apart).

Discipline and skill are massive factors but occasionally people are just built better for a certain sport / activity, that's pretty normal isn't it?
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Almost all swimmers have hypermobility - what used to be called double jointedness. Which strangely means they are quite unathletic as children as they lack strength in their joints.
 
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