Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[DHSF]

If we had a crucial game, and honestly all our games are crucial right now, where a tactical foul helped us get the points we needed I would fully expect every single one of our players to make that tactical foul.

Although tactical fouling is cynical it's not cheating or unsportsmanlike, you make the foul in front of the ref and everyone, you take the punishment given to you and you move on. Not like diving, simulation, trying to get someone sent off, handballing etc.

Totally agree - you see it everyday.

You hear commentators or pundits - take one for the team. You see Messi/Ronaldo bearing down on goal, last minute CL final, you will bring him down.

Although I think it was unfair for Modric to call Martinez 'dirty tactician' becaus ethat doesnt acknowledge that he actually tries to play football. He isnt like Stoke or Wolves or Blackburn hoofing it in the box. They are fairly entertaining.

 

[africanspurs]

Wigan are the Man United of relegations battles.

you say this now, but would you have said this like 3 months ago when they couldnt buy a win anywhere?

and are you positive they are the man united of relegation battelers and not say...........qpr, wolves or blackburn that more prem ready players

 

[WookieD]

So then, I went for Sandra. Who were the other 12?

 

[africanspurs]

i actually think wigan were underperforming when they were playing poor.....and martinez basically wa snot doing a good job getting the best out of his players and he couldnt change the confidence levels.
now they are confident and have found form ...so they are playing well

what we need is a manager that does NOT let his players confidence levels and / or form levels drop no mater what the situation is. wherevere that manager is then we need him.

i'm starting to see the appeal of moyes tbh.

 

[SUIYHA]

what we need is a manager that does NOT let his players confidence levels and / or form levels drop no mater what the situation is. wherevere that manager is then we need him.

i'm starting to see the appeal of moyes tbh.

Take it you haven't watched Everton in the first half of any of the last few seasons then?

 

[africanspurs]

Take it you haven't watched Everton in the first half of any of the last few seasons then?

no not really. but i have seen them punch above their weight for quite a number of years. and do so on a shoe string budget.

i've also seen young players rise to the position of premier league regulars there and bring through results with older players over the couse of a season

and moyes is scottish.

the cold winds are rising

 

[funster]

i actually think wigan were underperforming when they were playing poor.....and martinez basically wa snot doing a good job getting the best out of his players and he couldnt change the confidence levels.
now they are confident and have found form ...so they are playing well

what we need is a manager that does NOT let his players confidence levels and / or form levels drop no mater what the situation is. wherevere that manager is then we need him.

i'm starting to see the appeal of moyes tbh.

That man exists. His name is Sir Alex Ferguson. Somehow doubt he'll be coming to Spurs.....

Same could be said of Mourinho.

Guardiola? Dunno. Bit easier - I expect - when you have the side that Barca do.

 

[SUIYHA]

no not really. but i have seen them punch above their weight for quite a number of years. and do so on a shoe string budget.

i've also seen young players rise to the position of premier league regulars there and bring through results with older players over the couse of a season

and moyes is scottish.

the cold winds are rising

All admirable traits. But not what you were asking for before, which is a manager that doesn't let form and confidence levels drop. In each of the last few seasons, Everton have started the season poorly, completely out of form, low on confidence due to a lack of inspirational signings in the summer and a couple of bad results early on sets the tone. He does fantastically well to get them to recover every year and finish comfortably mid-table on the outskirts of a European place, but if we're serious about challenging for Champions League spots or even the title, we can't afford slow starts like that.

 

[africanspurs]

All admirable traits. But not what you were asking for before, which is a manager that doesn't let form and confidence levels drop. In each of the last few seasons, Everton have started the season poorly, completely out of form, low on confidence due to a lack of inspirational signings in the summer and a couple of bad results early on sets the tone. He does fantastically well to get them to recover every year and finish comfortably mid-table on the outskirts of a European place, but if we're serious about challenging for Champions League spots or even the title, we can't afford slow starts like that.

actually that is exactly what i was asking for. managers that fix confidence and form issues stop their teams from sinking more and more into it, they contain it and they bring them out of it.

lets aay what you say is true and everton have a habit of starting off bad...ask yourself this. do they keep on losing? or would you say they battle out their results with only a few wins and lots of ugly matches that end in close loses / draws.

then more importantly.....does that form appear to be an issue when putting in effort and fight againts teams that think you are there for the taking..i.e the better talented and higher placed teams that come to your ground. or do they know that irrespective of what's going on there that they are in for a REAL fight..and would thank their stars for any sort of result

and the most important....how does your team finish the season? strong? or soft?

all these are things that have to do with managers acting against bad form and low confidence.

think about it by definition.....low confidence and form are clearly defined in football, there are syptoms to show this. if a team didnt have a poor patch then they wouldnt really be suffering from anything now would they? in essence to show you can stop low confidence and poor form, you actually need the thing to occur..which would be a bad set of results and underperforming players too.

i would even say that you can guage a perspon able to consistently stop this problem over the course of seasons.....as in for those of us mature adults that know that football is played for decades...not weeks or months....a manager can have a miserable season but its how they recover from that that will define them, ESPECIALY if they recover from that with practically the same personell...ala Harry redknapp (but he's off to england so thats a no go)

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think a manager has to suit a club. That's one of the big things to get right when making an appointment, especially if we want it to be a resounding success, have it lead to us over performing and not have it simply be a fire fighting job.

I think Harry suits us for example. A Londoner that wants to play football the right way, and has a style of management that lets good players express themselves. This means that he will usually get a team to play to their ability.

Guardiola suits Barcelona. He may be a terrific coach, but his skill set is getting players that have the pressure of needing to perform like the best players in the world do it every single night. Would he make a smaller club over perform? Maybe. He might bring new ideas, but it's not his proven skill set. Moyes suits Everton. A club with tight financial constraints needs to work extra hard to compensate and that's what he gives them.

Rodgers I feel suits Swansea. Spells at Watford and Reading didn't go great, but he didn't suit those clubs. However he comes into a club that already has the foundations laid of playing good passing football, and he gives them that extra edge. The club and the manager were a good fit.

Same with Martinez. I don't feel Wigan particularly suit Martinez, but he is loyal to them and sticks to his principles. However if he came here, I feel like he would suit us. Experienced in the Premier League, can speak the language, and has a preferred style of football that is crying out to be implemented on more technically accomplished players. He and Rodgers would both suit us to be honest. Both have gotten wins over big sides this season, and not by parking the bus, but by playing good football. Imagine if they had some of our players.

Wigan have gone to Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and played Man United at home and deserved to win all of those matches. He can play against the big teams, he is tactically brave. Players should respect him for keeping Wigan up every year, and once they see his ideas they should buy into them. He would also be loyal to us if we gave him his chance I would say, so could be here for a long time.

 

[AdamB]

Personally I think that Martinez is an inferior version of Rodgers. Wigan do keep the ball well but Swansea are another level above Wigan in ball retention, having a well drilled system and getting results

 

[Superhudd]

To OP... 'I've said it before'

Why start another thread then! :lol:

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Personally I think that Martinez is an inferior version of Rodgers. Wigan do keep the ball well but Swansea are another level above Wigan in ball retention, having a well drilled system and getting results

Maybe, but we'll see. If Rodgers stays at Swansea, and does it for a second season, it can be said he has something that Martinez doesn't. But it's pretty impossible to tell, because they are working under different circumstances.

Swansea came up and therefore have momentum, that helps in the early part of the season. Wigan have been fighting off relegation year after year and so it's not as easy for them in that regard. Good point in the Guardian yesterday about whether relegation can be good for clubs - would Norwich be where they are now if they never got relegated from the Championship for example? Relegation allowed them to regroup, and come back stronger.

Anyway, I feel Swansea also have a stronger sqaud than Wigan. Rodgers has Sinclair, Dyer and Routledge as winger options, with Sigurdsson in midfield, Caulker at the back, and Vorm in goal. He has a very strong team I'd say. Martinez has to truly make do with whoever he can convince to come to Wigan. I'd rather have Swansea's team than Wigan's to be honest.

That said, I think both Martinez and Rodgers would be good for us. Clubs in Italy and Spain take punts on managers that have success with smaller clubs, and I just think Rodgers and Martinez would outright suit us. They'd have the players to make their system work, which seems to bring down a lot of managers when joining a new club. Besides, we may not be in a position to go for anyone more high profile and may have to take a gamble.

 

[mick cooper]

Can you imagine the reaction from our fans if he was appointed?

given how us "die hard" supporters on GG treat a guy who has had us in the top 4 for most of the season, I would imagine that he would be stripped beaten, tarred and feathered and hung by his balls from a lampost outside the corner pin.

Prior to the first game under his tenure

 

[ArcspacE]

Can you imagine the reaction from our fans if he was appointed?

I've said this numerous times before - we need to be patient during the first transition season and prepared to back him up in what could well be a series of painful results and transfers. It's from there on we can objectively begin to form an opinion.

Whether it's AVB, Martinez, Rodgers, etc. - he'd have a tremendous amount of work to do in order to rectify the transfer mess Arry would leave us with in few weeks time. So in my books the new man would have 1 season grace to bring in his players, ideas, systems, ethos, etc. Playing CL during that time would be a bonus but won't have high hopes on the PL

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Swansea came up and therefore have momentum, that helps in the early part of the season. Wigan have been fighting off relegation year after year and so it's not as easy for them in that regard.

Swansea have played consistnently all season. If you think of other teams that have come up 'on a high', Blackpool for example, they started like a bat out of hell and looked amazing but by around Christmas began to lose their way before moving onto a real struggle.

Swansea havent done that. They have played the same way, and picked up points consistently through the season. Their away record was terrible up to about Christmas, since when it has actually improved, so it would appear they are actually developing this season.

Wigan on the other hand have many years experience of the premier league, they should arguably be getting better and further from trouble.

Anyway, I feel Swansea also have a stronger sqaud than Wigan. Rodgers has Sinclair, Dyer and Routledge as winger options, with Sigurdsson in midfield, Caulker at the back, and Vorm in goal. He has a very strong team I'd say. Martinez has to truly make do with whoever he can convince to come to Wigan. I'd rather have Swansea's team than Wigan's to be honest.

All of those players bar Dyer (iirc) brought by Rodgers. Without premiership income, on less money than Wigan, Rodgers has built a better team.

Thatt said I think Martinez has made some very astute buys at Wigan.

That said, I think both Martinez and Rodgers would be good for us. Clubs in Italy and Spain take punts on managers that have success with smaller clubs, and I just think Rodgers and Martinez would outright suit us. They'd have the players to make their system work, which seems to bring down a lot of managers when joining a new club. Besides, we may not be in a position to go for anyone more high profile and may have to take a gamble.

A very fair point. Of the two I prefer Rodgers by a distance, but the point remains clubs in this country rarely offer young managers with potential the chance. On the continent it happens with regularity and often with success.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I've said this numerous times before - we need to be patient during the first transition season and prepared to back him up in what could well be a series of painful results and transfers. It's from there on we can objectively begin to form an opinion.

Whether it's AVB, Martinez, Rodgers, etc. - he'd have a tremendous amont of work to do in order to rectify the transfer mess Arry would leave us with in few weeks time. So in my books the new man would have 1 season grace to bring in his players, ideas, systems, ethos, etc. Playing CL during that time would be a bonus but won't have high hopes on the PL

Not only that but AVB and Rodgers in particular have very set ideas on how a team should play. Adopting a formation is always a difficult time for a team, and so results would no doubt be erratic for some time at least.

 

[ArcspacE]

True

Especially for players who've up to know have been told to go out, run around a bit and express themselves while roaming on the field - could take up to a season for the system to be properly deployed and most importantly - accepted.

 

[chancer]

I think a manager has to suit a club. That's one of the big things to get right when making an appointment, especially if we want it to be a resounding success, have it lead to us over performing and not have it simply be a fire fighting job.

I think Harry suits us for example. A Londoner that wants to play football the right way, and has a style of management that lets good players express themselves. This means that he will usually get a team to play to their ability.

Guardiola suits Barcelona. He may be a terrific coach, but his skill set is getting players that have the pressure of needing to perform like the best players in the world do it every single night. Would he make a smaller club over perform? Maybe. He might bring new ideas, but it's not his proven skill set. Moyes suits Everton. A club with tight financial constraints needs to work extra hard to compensate and that's what he gives them.

Rodgers I feel suits Swansea. Spells at Watford and Reading didn't go great, but he didn't suit those clubs. However he comes into a club that already has the foundations laid of playing good passing football, and he gives them that extra edge. The club and the manager were a good fit.

Same with Martinez. I don't feel Wigan particularly suit Martinez, but he is loyal to them and sticks to his principles. However if he came here, I feel like he would suit us. Experienced in the Premier League, can speak the language, and has a preferred style of football that is crying out to be implemented on more technically accomplished players. He and Rodgers would both suit us to be honest. Both have gotten wins over big sides this season, and not by parking the bus, but by playing good football. Imagine if they had some of our players.

Wigan have gone to Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and played Man United at home and deserved to win all of those matches. He can play against the big teams, he is tactically brave. Players should respect him for keeping Wigan up every year, and once they see his ideas they should buy into them. He would also be loyal to us if we gave him his chance I would say, so could be here for a long time.

Very good post, and I very much agree about needing a good "fit". This is my primary problem with Moyes - he just doesn't feel like a Spurs man. Martinez, much more so as you say.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Swansea have played consistnently all season. If you think of other teams that have come up 'on a high', Blackpool for example, they started like a bat out of hell and looked amazing but by around Christmas began to lose their way before moving onto a real struggle.

Swansea havent done that. They have played the same way, and picked up points consistently through the season. Their away record was terrible up to about Christmas, since when it has actually improved, so it would appear they are actually developing this season.

Wigan on the other hand have many years experience of the premier league, they should arguably be getting better and further from trouble.



All of those players bar Dyer (iirc) brought by Rodgers. Without premiership income, on less money than Wigan, Rodgers has built a better team.

Thatt said I think Martinez has made some very astute buys at Wigan.



A very fair point. Of the two I prefer Rodgers by a distance, but the point remains clubs in this country rarely offer young managers with potential the chance. On the continent it happens with regularity and often with success.

Don't need to convince me on the merits of Rodgers, I think he's made some great buys that fit perfectly into the system he wants.

I just think Martinez is also a great shout, we'd do well with him I'd say. A club that wants to play good football matched with a tactically astute manager that wants to play good football, that seems like a man you'd respect. Along with the players to acheive it...I can't see what would go wrong really!