Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[BrainOfLevy]

I think Arc has a point, in that he asked pages ago why Moyes is supposedly the best option and still hasn't got an answer.

The point about him being defensive is a fair one. Rodgers, Martinez, Poyet etc have all proved you can play good football on a budget. Moyes doesn't have much money to spend, but he has had a few quid in the past, and in ten years he chooses to play the way he does. More to the point, he is a generally defensive manager. It's not just the way he chooses to set up teams, it's his personality, his decision making. He is always inclined to drop deep and protect a one goal lead rather than kill the game off. I'm not sure that would change here. People say he would be like Mourinho, and play good football if he had good players, but I think Mourinho has always been more adaptable where as Moyes does like to shut games off.

He also isn't that great when spending large amounts of money. Fellaini looks only decent, and for ?15M I'm not sure there was value there. Until Jelavic, he constantly struggled to get a good striker. Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu, Saha etc all really failed to light it up like they might have been capable of. There's a reason someone like Pienaar shines in a Moyes system - he's a hard working team player but he isn't likely to do anything special. Moyes is also a reactive manager, worrying about the other team's strengths rather than taking the game to them.

So what are his good points? He can get results by any means necessary it seems. But it just isn't the Spurs way.

 

[Kingdawson]

i just think that what Moyes has achieved with Everton has little bearing on what he would do with us - it's been discussed before that a managers record in the league at different clubs has little relation to what they will go on to do at a new one and that using their record as the main reason to back them, imo, is naive (?) (his consistent league finishes seem to be the main reason you back him, is that fair to say ?)

take away his league finishes at Everton and describe what he has that he could bring here - all i can think of is that he gets the best out of a small squad of players ?

what do we want from a new manager? and has Moyes shown he is capable of that ?

im not saying he doesn't have the required skills, but id be interested to see what those that back him think he has that we can expect him to bring here - maybe i would be more happy with the thought of him here if i heard something other than he's got plucky little Everton to the top 8

the way i see it he has been there 10 years and they haven't really moved on in that time (once he got them away from the bottom of the table) the team he has built there is all his and it is rather uninspiring, imv. he has done well to work on a small budget, but does that mean we can be confident of him working on a big(ger) budget? he has little pressure from above to achieve anything - would he be able to cope with having the expectation the Spurs job would bring ? would he be able to adapt to a new style of play - how confident are you he could smoothly make that change - what's to suggest he can do that and do it successfully ?

for me all the big questions with regards to Moyes are all left unanswered - he may prove to be a good appointment - but i don't think there is much to make an informed decision on

Good post mate and i agree. You can only go on your belief at times and my belief is very strong regarding Moyes. I feel he has the characteristics needed to help us push on but yes there's really no solid evidence for or against his appointment.

If we're gonna take a chance i'd take it on Klopp. Ideally it would be Hiddink if we could work a deal out with his Russian club, then for me it's Moyes. Martinez imo is a good shout too.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Funnily enough - on News now just now

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/footba...-villas-boas-is-the-man-for-spurs-not-moyes/?

Weird article. It was just one big introduction. It kept saying how much he's going to talk about why he's agar manager for us etcetc and actually said nothing...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

KD - Pad out your post - WHY do you have such strong belief in Moyes? What do you see him doing with the club? How will he push us on?

On this matter I think BOL and Billy sum up my thinking pretty well. Billy has also been to lengths about appointing the man, not the CV - getting someone who is the right fit for the club - something I completely agree with.

Why is that man Moyes for you?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Weird article. It was just one big introduction. It kept saying how much he's going to talk about why he's agar manager for us etcetc and actually said nothing...

I know, and the middle paragraph Im almost certain was lifted from here! I just found it funny, KD and Arcy having the same argument as I just found on NewsNow

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Funnily enough - on News now just now

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/footba...-villas-boas-is-the-man-for-spurs-not-moyes/?

Good read.

I've been reading more of the AVB book, and again, aside from the tactical insights, how he coaches, how he produces training sessions that the players love, there is a lot about how he builds personal relationships with players. He says (like a lot of us on here think) that a club will be successful if it is talking with one voice, with everyone from the board to the players all buying into something. That's probably why he wants to make sure his next job is exactly right for him.

He is lauded for creating a positive atmosphere at Porto and Academica. The players respected him, they enjoyed his work, and he respected them. Like Mourinho, he is constantly texting his players, and became a friend to them. I keep saying it, but it is absolutely completely at odds with what happened at Chelsea. It's like not reading about the same person. I'm just now getting onto the Chelsea part, so it will be interesting to read.

Another thing is how he deals with discipline issues. A Porto player was seen out clubbing when he shouldn't have been, and AVB defended him publicly to the press. However within the team, the matter is dealt with in front of the rest of his colleagues. There are no private meetings, everything was dealt with out in the open, in front of the team, and it was collectively agreed what the future course of action would be. He says that he doesn't want any individual to put themselves ahead of the collective. Again, an entirely fair way of dealing with discipline issues and it just seems like Chelsea didn't give him a chance to be who he really is.

 

[Kingdawson]

KD - Pad out your post - WHY do you have such strong belief in Moyes? What do you see him doing with the club? How will he push us on?

On this matter I think BOL and Billy sum up my thinking pretty well. Billy has also been to lengths about appointing the man, not the CV - getting someone who is the right fit for the club - something I completely agree with.

Why is that man Moyes for you?

He's tactically astute, he's a disciplinarian that unusually has the backing of a high % of the players he works with (disciplinarians typically don't have that), he can spot a signing, he's a motivator , he conducts himself in a very dignified manner, he has the knack of being able to pin point the oppositions weakness and exploit it, he has premiership experience and knows exactly how this league operates. I know what i'm getting with him being that i see these things with my own eyes. With the latest foreign master tacticial i don't know what i'm getting and i prefer to make my conclusions on what i see instead of the things i read.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I keep saying it, but it is absolutely completely at odds with what happened at Chelsea.

If you can be bothered would be interested in some detail on the training etc, read some articles on his methods and liked what they were saying. Everything is apparently centred aound in game scenarios...

 

[Kingdawson]

Good read.

I've been reading more of the AVB book, and again, aside from the tactical insights, how he coaches, how he produces training sessions that the players love, there is a lot about how he builds personal relationships with players. He says (like a lot of us on here think) that a club will be successful if it is talking with one voice, with everyone from the board to the players all buying into something. That's probably why he wants to make sure his next job is exactly right for him.

He is lauded for creating a positive atmosphere at Porto and Academica. The players respected him, they enjoyed his work, and he respected them. Like Mourinho, he is constantly texting his players, and became a friend to them. I keep saying it, but it is absolutely completely at odds with what happened at Chelsea. It's like not reading about the same person. I'm just now getting onto the Chelsea part, so it will be interesting to read.

Another thing is how he deals with discipline issues. A Porto player was seen out clubbing when he shouldn't have been, and AVB defended him publicly to the press. However within the team, the matter is dealt with in front of the rest of his colleagues. There are no private meetings, everything was dealt with out in the open, in front of the team, and it was collectively agreed what the future course of action would be. He says that he doesn't want any individual to put themselves ahead of the collective. Again, an entirely fair way of dealing with discipline issues and it just seems like Chelsea didn't give him a chance to be who he really is.

That wasn't a good read in the slightest but it fits into what you believe hence you stating it's a good read. If you read that from a totally objective viewpoint the article is basically not saying anything.

Anyway you post now is what i'm refering to when i continuously say "what i read". These sorts of things do nothing for me but for others it seems to excite them. I've seen the man they're talking about in this article and based on what i've seen it's a no. Maybe if i didn't see him and read hundreds of pro AVB articles regurgitating how fantastic he is tactically i might get a tiny bit drawn in.

 

[indianspur]

He's tactically astute, he's a disciplinarian that unusually has the backing of a high % of the players he works with (disciplinarians typically don't have that), he can spot a signing, he's a motivator , he conducts himself in a very dignified manner, he has the knack of being able to pin point the oppositions weakness and exploit it, he has premiership experience and knows exactly how this league operates. I know what i'm getting with him being that i see these things with my own eyes. With the latest foreign master tacticial i don't know what i'm getting and i prefer to make my conclusions on what i see instead of the things i read.

i didnt like what i saw in the FA cup semi v Liverpool in regards to these aspects

one of the biggest games in his 10 year Everton reign and he absolutely ballsed it up. Everton had a defensive attitude all game and became worse when they took the lead and tried to hang onto the 1-0

Liverpool were there for the taking but Moyes didnt dare go after them and tactically was left wanting when Everton were losing grip of the tie

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

He's tactically astute, he's a disciplinarian that unusually has the backing of a high % of the players he works with (disciplinarians typically don't have that), he can spot a signing, he's a motivator , he conducts himself in a very dignified manner, he has the knack of being able to pin point the oppositions weakness and exploit it, he has premiership experience and knows exactly how this league operates. I know what i'm getting with him being that i see these things with my own eyes. With the latest foreign master tacticial i don't know what i'm getting and i prefer to make my conclusions on what i see instead of the things i read.

I see that he has a great relationship with his players, and its something to applaud.

I disagree RE spotting a signing. Or, to be more specific, I think he is excellent when dealing on peanuts - but VERY flaky when dealing with more substantial buys. Something he would have to get right with us, something I dont have confidence he would.

For example, ?5m and under - Jelavic, Arteta, Coleman, Pienaar, Jagielka..

Over - Andy Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu, Feilani, Bilyaletdinov...

He does conduct himself very well, and I would expand upon that to say that generally he comes across well in interviews etc also.

He does know this league well, but its from a different perspective as would be at Spurs. He knows it as the underdog scrapping for points - does he know it as a bigger fish looking to exceed itself? I dont know.

What Im saying is are his skills suited to our needs? They are perfectly suited to Evertons - which are very different.

This is what I tried to raise a few pages ago, you know what you are getting - think about that for a second. Familiarity leaves a false sense of faith/safety IMO.

I see a style of play that doesnt fit the club. You think he can change, fine - maybe you are right, but then he is moving into uncharted territory so far as his management career goes. Thats a risk, thats not safe.

I see a manager who has never had the budgets like ours to deal with - and that spending is a skill. So far as his time at Everton is concerned Im not sure he has it in him. Look at Francis - some managers really are suited to smaller budgets!

He currently has the respect of his players, to a great degree. But then he has been at Everton 10 years (longer than any player!) and so is established in his position. Would that translate to a new role? Honestly I dont know, it might, but its not a certainty at all.

All in all, its my belief he is as big a risk as the more unknown quantities.

On that basis, looking at someone like AVB - I believe I would prefer AVB. Not because he is foreign and so exciting (ridiculous notion, but there are plenty who think like that) but because I think he fits better.

He is an attacking coach, that works at Spurs. He is bold, and ambitious - thats classic Spurs. He can deal with the transfer side of things (I was impressed with his work at Chelsea last summer). Prior to Chelsea he had a very good raport with players, and this squad is much nearer Portos in composition than Chelseas. Both in personalities as well as player types. He has the deeper analytical thinking and tactics I think we need to step forward from what Redknapp established - which (given that he is an attacking coach) would build on top of Redknapps work instead of changing the team ethos.

I accept fully he is a risk, and also have reservations about some of his decisions at Chelsea, but broadly I think his style/attributes align much more closely with what we need (that being IMO of course)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

i didnt like what i saw in the FA cup semi v Liverpool in regards to these aspects

one of the biggest games in his 10 year Everton reign and he absolutely ballsed it up. Everton had a defensive attitude all game and became worse when they took the lead and tried to hang onto the 1-0

Liverpool were there for the taking but Moyes didnt dare go after them and tactically was left wanting when Everton were losing grip of the tie

Very true, IMO

 

[chancer]

Automatic disqualification from the Spurs job for anyone who ever signed James Beattie, irrespective of how much money they had to spend at the time or how tight a spot they were in.

 

[Spurs7891]

I think one disadavantage with AVB becoming our next manager is age. At 34, he is too young to manage a big club in a tough league like EPL. I think this is the main reason he failed at Chelsea. Nowadays, players in top leagues have big egos. Their ego might stop them following instructions from a young manager unless he is a successfull manager or a popular former player at the club. Being successfull in Europa League and Portugal might not enough for these egoistic players to respect him. Perhaps if AVB had won the CL instead of Europa League, he might have been more successfull at Chelsea. I am sure we have a few players with big egos at Spurs and they might not like it to have a manager who are only a few years older than them.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think the complications were a lot more than that at Chelsea. They all knew him as a glorified scout, not even a coach, they also all knew they had a better relationship with the Chairman than he did.

 

[milo]

A question for those that want AVB as our next manager. Outline what you see as legitimate concerns about AVB and then explain why you do not think that these are a problem.

 

[chancer]

I think one disadavantage with AVB becoming our next manager is age. At 34, he is too young to manage a big club in a tough league like EPL. I think this is the main reason he failed at Chelsea. Nowadays, players in top leagues have big egos. Their ego might stop them following instructions from a young manager unless he is a successfull manager or a popular former player at the club. Being successfull in Europa League and Portugal might not enough for these egoistic players to respect him. Perhaps if AVB had won the CL instead of Europa League, he might have been more successfull at Chelsea. I am sure we have a few players with big egos at Spurs and they might not like it to have a manager who are only a few years older than them.

I posted the same a few pages back. I think AVB's age is a much bigger issue than many are crediting. To me, Rodgers and Martinez at 39 are at the very bottom end of proper age profile for a manager. Jose was 37 when he got his first head coach job. Ferguson was also 37 when he took the Aberdeen job. And yet AVB is supposed to have a 3 or 4 year start on these guys? And 6 years on Rodgers/Martinez? Big, big issue for me wrt AVB.

 

[ArcspacE]

A question for those that want AVB as our next manager. Outline what you see as legitimate concerns about AVB and then explain why you do not think that these are a problem.

Every signing would hold risk, Milo.

Somewhere down the line we d have to take chance though and hopefully make an informed decision.

Who is your choice btw?

 

[billyiddo]

A question for those that want AVB as our next manager. Outline what you see as legitimate concerns about AVB and then explain why you do not think that these are a problem.

im not particularly raving for AVB but i wouldn't mind him and all my concerns are covered by the fact i think he was managing a bunch of ****s with too much power who weren't ready for change - who ultimately decided they did no want him as manager and made his life as awkward as possible.

the failure to adapt his tactics when the players at his disposal were not ideally suited would be the most glaring one - but then considering they were 5th when he left after only 6 months then i guess you could argue he may have adapted over time -

6 months is a very short window in which to pick out someones faults, sure he got things wrong but whats to say in his own time he would have corrected them? Moyes for example often starts seasons badly and finishes strongly - im sure there are other examples as well - throw in the fact it was a new club in a new country and he was given the task of rebuilding then i think it's not entirely a surprise he had a 'poor' start to his time there

who's to say his players would not have adapted to his tactics had they put their full effort in to it ? how long when trying a new formation/tactic do you give it before you decide it is not going to work ? 1 game ? a month ? half a season ? i guess there are arguments to be made either way

 

[Spurs7891]

I posted the same a few pages back. I think AVB's age is a much bigger issue than many are crediting. To me, Rodgers and Martinez at 39 are at the very bottom end of proper age profile for a manager. Jose was 37 when he got his first head coach job. Ferguson was also 37 when he took the Aberdeen job. And yet AVB is supposed to have a 3 or 4 year start on these guys? And 6 years on Rodgers/Martinez? Big, big issue for me wrt AVB.

IMO, a manager has to be atleast 40 years old to manage a big club unless he is a former player at the club. Guardiola took over Barcelona when he was 37 but he was a famous player at the club during his playing time.