Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[Kingdawson]

I don't think we know that at all. He won in Portugal with a team that was already streets ahead of the opposition. A challenge that was akin to Man Utd being relegated to the Championship on some technicality and then winning the Championship. Whoopee!

The more I read about AVB's tactical thesis, the more I begin to despair. Football IS a simple game and is mainly down to players, not tactics. I am concerned that AVB seemingly over complicates everything for no reason other than to try and make himself look like some sort of footballing intellectual.

If he becomes Spurs Manager, I'll back him 100% but this messiah image some people are already giving him is totally niave and based on hopes rather than facts IMO.

fudge me i've never agreed more with a post for a while.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don't think we know that at all. He won in Portugal with a team that was already streets ahead of the opposition. A challenge that was akin to Man Utd being relegated to the Championship on some technicality and then winning the Championship. Whoopee!

The more I read about AVB's tactical thesis, the more I begin to despair. Football IS a simple game and is mainly down to players, not tactics. I am concerned that AVB seemingly over complicates everything for no reason other than to try and make himself look like some sort of footballing intellectual.

If he becomes Spurs Manager, I'll back him 100% but this messiah image some people are already giving him is totally niave and based on hopes rather than facts IMO.

While the Portuguese league is a fairly short run race, that analogy is ridiculous.

The season before he joined they finished 3rd, lost two of their main players and the only buy he made was Moutinho.

To go from there to Champions, unbeaten, EUROPA league winners and domestic cup winners (4 loses all season, 2 in pre season) is a significant improvement and achievement. And the difference between Porto and the average standard over there is nothing like that between Utd and the average Championship club.

He is not overly tactical, just more so than Harry. Why that terrifies you so much lord only knows. Football is not as simple as you would like to make out, and there is not one top manager alive who doesnt apply a solid tactical plan.

Facts are he has a good system of play, has been very successful in two of his three appointments and there are rare and mitigating circumstances to consider at the third. The fact is before Chelsea he was well regarded as a coach with great potential, and he still is.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think we know that at all. He won in Portugal with a team that was already streets ahead of the opposition. A challenge that was akin to Man Utd being relegated to the Championship on some technicality and then winning the Championship. Whoopee!

The more I read about AVB's tactical thesis, the more I begin to despair. Football IS a simple game and is mainly down to players, not tactics. I am concerned that AVB seemingly over complicates everything for no reason other than to try and make himself look like some sort of footballing intellectual.

If he becomes Spurs Manager, I'll back him 100% but this messiah image some people are already giving him is totally niave and based on hopes rather than facts IMO.

Porto had just finished 3rd, and Benfica looked like they were gearing up for a good period of domination. The previous Porto coach had some success too, so he was no mug. Porto then lost their captain. They then lost Raul Mereiles. They only signed Moutinho. From that, they ended up winning the league by 21 points!! They were 36 points ahead of Sporting. This wasn't the usual Porto winning because they were clearly the best team, this was above and beyond that. He got 2.8 points per match, as opposed to Mourinho's 2.5. They scored 145 goals, or 2.5 per match (compared to Mourinho's 2.23)

And again, AVB's tactical thesis is that he wants players to express themselves. He fully understands that it is about the players! Infact that's what guides him more than anything I'd say. He believes in the power of motivation. He doesn't overcomplicate things, rather he is lauded for how simply he can put across his instructions and make them easy to understand.

I'm not saying he is going to be a guarenteed success, but something fishy clearly went on at Chelsea. This guy is a coaching prodigy as far as I'm concerned. Given a favourable set of circumstances (which it is the job of the club to create, and why AVB wants his next move to the the right one, and why he puts so much stock in a consistent 'one voice' message throughout the entire club) we could reap some serious rewards. He also is always making sure he stays up to date with the latest developments in the game. Ever since he was a child he's been a complete football sponge. He seems to have it all. Chelsea's loss could definitely be our gain.

 

[Jordinho]

Matt Lawton @Matt_Lawton_DM
One win in 4 matches out here obviously makes Laurent Blanc a far better option than Harry Redknapp


No arguing this irrefutable logic

 

[Kingdawson]

While the Portuguese league is a fairly short run race, that analogy is ridiculous.

The season before he joined they finished 3rd, lost two of their main players and the only buy he made was Moutinho.

To go from there to Champions, unbeaten, EUROPA league winners and domestic cup winners (4 loses all season, 2 in pre season) is a significant improvement and achievement. And the difference between Porto and the average standard over there is nothing like that between Utd and the average Championship club.

He is not overly tactical, just more so than Harry. Why that terrifies you so much lord only knows. Football is not as simple as you would like to make out, and there is not one top manager alive who doesnt apply a solid tactical plan.

Facts are he has a good system of play, has been very successful in two of his three appointments and there are rare and mitigating circumstances to consider at the third. The fact is before Chelsea he was well regarded as a coach with great potential, and he still is.

I'm not having that one bit. The man talks about tactics on every opportunity he possibly can. Every article about him is tactics, every interview it's tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'm not having that one bit. The man talks about tactics on every opportunity he possibly can. Every article about him is tactics, every interview it's tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics.

Just because he thinks deeply about tactics doesnt mean he takes an overly tactical and rigid approach with the players.

He has a set up that tactically offers his side domination (in his view) but within that set up players have freedom to express themselves.

Read what BOL has been saying - his approach to the players is simple, even if his approach to the game is not.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm not having that one bit. The man talks about tactics on every opportunity he possibly can. Every article about him is tactics, every interview it's tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics.

I'm sorry but that's just wrong. He's as much about player motivation, coaching, preparation, team spirit etc as he is about tactics. Maybe it's only because the articles that appear linking him to the Spurs/Liverpool jobs have been about 'What AVB's team would look like' which is of course a legit question. But beyond that, there is much more to his management.

 

[indianspur]

one aspect overlooked about AVB's time at Chelsea in comparison to his success at Porto was the fact that he wasnt able to bring along his number 2 from Porto, Victor Pereira, who actually was given the Porto job after AVB left and like AVB before him led Porto to the title despite very very limited experience in his locker

I think for all managers their right hand man is very important, and at Chelsea it seems Di Matteo was forced upon AVB and that cant have been ideal. The assistants role is vital, the buffer between the manager and the team, a guy who has to explicitly follow the managers wishes and tactics and impart them onto the team. So much trust is involved in this relationship and im not sure RDM was as helpful and loyal to AVB's ideals as he could have been

It will be interesting who AVb has as his number two if he gets the Tottenham gig......some say it will be sherwood,, again is Sherwood forced upon AVB by the club or is it something AVB insists on (someone did say that AVB and Sherwood took coaching badges together on the same course a few years back.)

or if Sherwood is given the technical director role, will AVB be allowed to bring in his own number 2, maybe another Portuguese fella.

 

[Rorschach]

I said the other day I think thats what the rumoured talk of Sherwood having a new role is about. Has been at the club for a while, knows the players, worked with the younger players (something we will apparently focus on) - if he is an ally to AVB then I think it might help the players accept him

Yes indeed. I never even thought of Sherwood. I had someone more senior in mind when writing that, but by jove you may be onto something there lad!

 

[Kingdawson]

Just because he thinks deeply about tactics doesnt mean he takes an overly tactical and rigid approach with the players.

He has a set up that tactically offers his side domination (in his view) but within that set up players have freedom to express themselves.

Read what BOL has been saying - his approach to the players is simple, even if his approach to the game is not.

I;m going to be totally honest here. I read the what BOL posted about how AVB managed a situation where the player broke a rule and i thought wtf, what exactly is so great or revolutionary about that? so he defended the player in public but punished the player infront of his teammates so basically he dealt with the situation in house. Ok but whats different about that and what a lot of other managers do? what am i missing.

 

[jimmyb]

I don't think we know that at all. He won in Portugal with a team that was already streets ahead of the opposition. A challenge that was akin to Man Utd being relegated to the Championship on some technicality and then winning the Championship. Whoopee!

The more I read about AVB's tactical thesis, the more I begin to despair. Football IS a simple game and is mainly down to players, not tactics. I am concerned that AVB seemingly over complicates everything for no reason other than to try and make himself look like some sort of footballing intellectual.

If he becomes Spurs Manager, I'll back him 100% but this messiah image some people are already giving him is totally niave and based on hopes rather than facts IMO.

Have you not read BOL's posts at all??? Or is it that you just do not want to read them or accept their content??!!!

AVB is far from tactically rigid. He doesn't paralyse his players with information overload. He doesn't overcomplicate the game.

As to the assertion that he took over a dominant team, Porto finished 3rd with 68 points in the previous season's Primeira Liga. AVB turned that around and took Porto to 1st with 84 points - winning 27 and drawing 3 of 30 games. A remarkable achievement. He also won the Portuguese Cup and the UEFA Cup - beating Villareal and Sevilla (who finished, respectively, 4th and 5th in La Liga) along the way. Trying to diminish his achievements at Porto is just silly. But even if you must insist upon giving him no credit for his time at Porto, you must consider the way that he turned Academica around so remarkably and so quickly. They were hardly a team that was "streets ahead of the opposition".

Finally, please desist with the straw man argument, fella. No one has said that AVB is the Messiah. Everyone who has backed him has acknowledged that his appointment would be something of a risk.

We just happen to think that it could be a risk worth taking.

 

[Kingdawson]

ok i'm reading BOL's big post now (missed which one you was refering too(.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Matt Lawton @Matt_Lawton_DM
One win in 4 matches out here obviously makes Laurent Blanc a far better option than Harry Redknapp


No arguing this irrefutable logic

Ridiculous isn't it? International management is no gauge for club management anyway.

My biggest concern with Blanc is that we just can't win in the medium or long term. In the short term I'd be delightfully amazed if we superceded what we've managed the last three seasons. Irrespective of who the Manager is, I can see us finishing 5th or 6th next season. If Blanc comes in and achieves that, or betters that, then I can see Utd making a move for him to replace Fergie and we start again from where we are now. If he fudges up then we'll go backwards and we'll fire him and be in a worse position than we are now.

We are a stepping stone club at the moment (hard to take, but it's the truth), but somehow we need to find a manager who is good enough AND who would be willing to commit themselves to the club long term. Of course for the first time since Venables, the club also needs to commit itself to a Manager long term too. The short termist attitude towards managers exhibited during the Sugar/ENIC years surely has to end with the next appointment. Time for us to stick with a manager regardless.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Have you not read BOL's posts at all??? Or is it that you just do not want to read them or accept their content??!!!

AVB is far from tactically rigid. He doesn't paralyse his players with information overload. He doesn't overcomplicate the game.

As to the assertion that he took over a dominant team, Porto finished 3rd with 68 points in the previous season's Primeira Liga. AVB turned that around and took Porto to 1st with 84 points - winning 27 and drawing 3 of 30 games. A remarkable achievement. He also won the Portuguese Cup and the UEFA Cup - beating Villareal and Sevilla (who finished, respectively, 4th and 5th in La Liga) along the way. Trying to diminish his achievements at Porto is just silly. But even if you must insist upon it, you also have to consider the way that he turned Academica around so remarkably and so quickly.

Finally, please desist with the straw man argument, fella. No one has said that AVB is the Messiah. Everyone who has backed him has acknowledged that his appointment would be something of a risk.

We just happen to think that it could be a risk worth taking.

I've read them, and to be honest I don't agree with a lot of what is said. A lot of positive spin, and some glaring issues there that people are refusing to address because they already rate him as the next coming.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I'm sorry but that's just wrong. He's as much about player motivation, coaching, preparation, team spirit etc as he is about tactics. Maybe it's only because the articles that appear linking him to the Spurs/Liverpool jobs have been about 'What AVB's team would look like' which is of course a legit question. But beyond that, there is much more to his management.

Do you know AVB personally? You pass everything off as fact when you discuss him, like you know him and have discussed his views with him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I;m going to be totally honest here. I read the what BOL posted about how AVB managed a situation where the player broke a rule and i thought wtf, what exactly is so great or revolutionary about that? so he defended the player in public but punished the player infront of his teammates so basically he dealt with the situation in house. Ok but whats different about that and what a lot of other managers do? what am i missing.

Nothing. Its a policy I would appreciate myself, honest, open and would serve to keep the group close IMO.

The point was not that, but simply your impression of him being overly tactical isnt really fair.

Obviously tactics are high on his thinking, and meet anyone from football and they are a common topic to talk at length about - but there is more to him that tactical thinking and no obvious inclination that he is overly tactical with the players (strictly rigid or lengthly lectures etc...)

 

[Rorschach]

I can see the battle lines being drawn already.

 

[indianspur]

I;m going to be totally honest here. I read the what BOL posted about how AVB managed a situation where the player broke a rule and i thought wtf, what exactly is so great or revolutionary about that? so he defended the player in public but punished the player infront of his teammates so basically he dealt with the situation in house. Ok but whats different about that and what a lot of other managers do? what am i missing.

true that, i cant think of many managers who have a go at thier players in public as well as behind the scenes. Most if not all always publicly back their players

one thing that AVB did at Chelsea that was leaked to the press was that he would gather everyone round for a team meeting so that everyone could air any grievances/issues regarding his management, team selection, tactics, anything, and encourage all to speak up if they had anything to say. Sounds great so far doesnt it, however if a player dared to say anything negative about AVB and his ways in the meeting, AVB would then take it on board and punish that player later by dropping him to the bench or out of the team altogether.

 

[jimmyb]

I've read them, and to be honest I don't agree with a lot of what is said. A lot of positive spin, and some glaring issues there that people are refusing to address because they already rate him as the next coming.

It's not a question of you agreeing with what BOL said. BOL has simply written a precis of AVB's own philosophy.

You have every right to disagree with AVB's philosophy. But you don't have the right to claim that AVB's philosophy is not, in fact, his philosophy.

And once again, behave yourself. Cease this straw man nonsense about anyone treating him like the second coming, By doing so, you are merely betraying the weakness in your own argument.

 

[jimmyb]

Do you know AVB personally? You pass everything off as fact when you discuss him, like you know him and have discussed his views with him.

Stop being facetious, MK. It's tedious.

BOL has read the book. Which is more than you have done, apparently.