Next Manager?

[scaramanga]

Fine. I think you can absolutely find a way of saying ‘we’re talking to Conte’ without making out he is the front runner, while still keeping the people that rely on access to the club for their career relevance onside.

But let’s accept your premise. Who leaked the Poch stuff? And why were we comfortable stiff arming the journalists for almost 2 months until this past week?

In answer to the first one, probably PSG but Poch and his agent are also possibilities.

As for the second, I don't think it had leaked at that point - so we can keep silent. Once it has leaked, we can't make our own journos look stupid by being the only ones without any part of the story to print.

 

[Lilbaz]

Fine. I think you can absolutely find a way of saying ‘we’re talking to Conte’ without making out he is the front runner, while still keeping the people that rely on access to the club for their career relevance onside.

But let’s accept your premise. Who leaked the Poch stuff? And why were we comfortable stiff arming the journalists for almost 2 months until this past week?

Were we? Seem to remember it being reported we talked to ten haag.

 

[DubSpur]

I mean no disrespect to anyone’s point of view but I think the Conte episode highlights to me one of Levy’s biggest weaknesses; namely his lack of direction when it comes to appointing managers.

Why would Levy have even entertained the idea that Conte was suitable for the role given the history of the guy? Which anyone in football would know. With respect it’s not good enough simply to approach someone just because they are available especially as we operate differently to the clubs with bigger resources. He wants top tier managers but provides them with 2nd tier resources. When will he learn?

When you are recruiting, especially in a niche market, you look at your vacancy, determine the key aspects of the job and the attributes of the person that would fit that role then go to the market with hopefully a shortlist. You don’t just appoint someone because of their name or success at clubs that have a completely different financial framework. Has he not learnt that from Santini, Ramos, AVB and Mourinho? Manager recruitment is an area that is screaming out for a DOF.

Levy has so little nous in this area it is painful. He cannot resist shiny toys when it comes to managers, just look at the managers he’s chased before, Trappatoni, LVG and now Conte! His most successful and long lived managers are the ones he seems to appoint by accident. I am glad he pulled out of the Conte deal because that was a car crash waiting to happen, but the fact he discussed the position with him in the first place just highlights to me that Levy hasn’t learnt anything from past failures. This is why, among other things, I am disillusioned with him and ENIC.

I don’t care if it takes a little longer to appoint a manager, but first appoint a DOF ASAP, sit down with them, have an honest discussion about the constraints the new manager is likely to have to work under, draw up a short list then go and recruit. Not just chase after the latest shiny toy in the market.

I do agree with a lot of that, but it's still nothing got to do with how we conducted ourselves over meeting Conte.

It would be preferable if we had a DoF in place and there was a consistent playing style no matter who the manager was. Obviously no two managers are going to play exactly the same but the overall direction should be the same. However most of the top clubs don't stick to the same style of manager and usually go with the best manager available. Look at Real going from Zidane to Ancelotti. These are two managers that play differently.

Conte hasn't spent hugely at any of the clubs he was at, including Chelsea. What he wants is a team that is capable of winning off the bat with little development work from him.
If, as he has said previously, he wants to join a club and create a legacy than we may have been a fit for him. It turns out that he still doesn't want to develop a team and wants it handed to him. That's fine, he's not a fit for us but will be for others. We move on.

And this thing about long lived managers is a total red herring, managers don't last long at any club with around two seasons being the average

 

[thfcsteff]

It's not a relentless pro-Enic/Levy. It's just that most of us in here actually have a brain, and a basic understanding of economics.
Do you have a £10m mansion, a private jet and 10 luxury cars?
No?
Why not?

There are many, many answers to your question beyond 'a basic understanding of economics' (which -BTW- in a capitalist world such as this is largely based on keeping a mass amount of the population fed, watered and feeling like they're 'in the game and can have it all' when the system is rigged for the few aka your mates listed).

I personally have not seen one person here doubt his business acumen. He has built fantastic facilities all over and put us in an amazing place. He does, however, have a serious and massive blind spot on footballing matters and needs to make the commitment to stay far away from them beyond end numbers. It appears that is happening.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think we’ve been turned down by our first 5 manager choices now....

Nagelsman (understandable with the Bayern offer)
Rodgers (semi understandable but only because Leicester’s owners seem to create an environment that makes it easier for their managers to succeed... I.e. players in early in the window)
Flick (understandable with the Germany offer)
Pochettino (understandable with a job already at a bigger club)
Conte (less understandable with no current job and it concerns me as it suggests he feels the constraints won’t allow us to compete).

I think it’s important that manager pick number 6 or 7 actually takes the bait.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Were we? Seem to remember it being reported we talked to ten haag.

Sure. But there was no TEN HAG FRONT RUNNER DEAL IMMINENT stories. He was an obvious person we should have spoken to.

The entire tone of the Poch and Conte stories was completely different.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think we’ve been turned down by our first 5 manager choices now....

Nagelsman (understandable with the Bayern offer)
Rodgers (semi understandable but only because Leicester’s owners seem to create an environment that makes it easier for their managers to succeed... I.e. players in early in the window)
Flick (understandable with the Germany offer)
Pochettino (understandable with a job already at a bigger club)
Conte (less understandable with no current job and it concerns me as it suggests he feels the constraints won’t allow us to compete).

I think it’s important that manager pick number 6 or 7 actually takes the bait.

For me, the single most important thing right now is that we do our business (whatever the fudge it actually is!) as discreetly as possible.

The truth is, getting a manager in before the Euros is pretty unimportant. Getting a DoF/giving Hitchen FULL reign as of Monday os vital.

 

[DubSpur]

I think we’ve been turned down by our first 5 manager choices now....

Nagelsman (understandable with the Bayern offer)
Rodgers (semi understandable but only because Leicester’s owners seem to create an environment that makes it easier for their managers to succeed... I.e. players in early in the window)
Flick (understandable with the Germany offer)
Pochettino (understandable with a job already at a bigger club)
Conte (less understandable with no current job and it concerns me as it suggests he feels the constraints won’t allow us to compete).

I think it’s important that manager pick number 6 or 7 actually takes the bait.

How do we know that we approached or were turned down by them? The usual comments in some rag?
Also, if you want to go by the same rags, Poch didn't turn us down PSG wouldn't let him leave and we walked away from Conte.

 

[AdamB]

The truth is, getting a manager in before the Euros is pretty unimportant. Getting a DoF/giving Hitchen FULL reign as of Monday os vital.

Depends on whether you want the manager to have a say in transfers

 

[Chrissivad]

Depends on whether you want the manager to have a say in transfers

I think the manager should have a say in transfers, but shouldn't hold the power.

DoF needs to try and keep things consistent between managers so we don't need big changes every time we get a new one in.

 

[scaramanga]

I think we’ve been turned down by our first 5 manager choices now....

Nagelsman (understandable with the Bayern offer)
Rodgers (semi understandable but only because Leicester’s owners seem to create an environment that makes it easier for their managers to succeed... I.e. players in early in the window)
Flick (understandable with the Germany offer)
Pochettino (understandable with a job already at a bigger club)
Conte (less understandable with no current job and it concerns me as it suggests he feels the constraints won’t allow us to compete).

I think it’s important that manager pick number 6 or 7 actually takes the bait.

6 or 7 rumours is also 0 confirmed.

All depends on ones agenda...

 

[parklane1]

I’m sorry but just because I have an opposite opinion to the majority on this particular subject, I don’t think it means I need to be shouted down about it, told to stop talking about it. As if it’s heresy to question Levy on these things on here.

Do not be such a drama queen , no one is trying to shut you down you are entitled to believe what you want but when others question your opinions you ignore that and just keep your agenda going.

 

[Robspur12]

I do agree with a lot of that, but it's still nothing got to do with how we conducted ourselves over meeting Conte.

@DeanoAustin answered this point very well earlier in the thread. Plus weve been here before, Trappatoni, LVG and now Conte, Levy keeps chasing the shiny toys, irrespective of whether they are the best fit.

However most of the top clubs don't stick to the same style of manager and usually go with the best manager available. Look at Real going from Zidane to Ancelotti. These are two managers that play differently.

These top tier clubs have the money to accommodate different managers and their whims on buying new players. Spurs unfortunately don't. There we cannot operate the same way although Levy wants to think we are one of the big boys We need a different plan where we use our resources more efficiently. Like the Ajax's of this world.

Conte hasn't spent hugely at any of the clubs he was at, including Chelsea. What he wants is a team that is capable of winning off the bat with little development work from him.

According to tranfermarkt Conte spent 302 million at Chelsea on 9 players, and 195million on 6 players at Inter. More money than he is likely to spend here and he's not widely regarded as a development type manager.

And this thing about long lived managers is a total red herring, managers don't last long at any club with around two seasons being the average

Managers that have done well namely Jol, Redknapp and Poch have on average lasted 3 seasons. The others have lasted less than 2, Santini not even one. So it does matter who you appoint in terms of longevity. Plus failures cost money, money that presumably could be spent else where.

I really think time would be better spent on appointing the DOF, it's a about 6 weeks since Mourinho left. Once the DOF is appointed we can then set about going after a manager. We want this manager in place as soon as possible after the Euros to enable them to assess what we need before the start of preseason.

 

[DubSpur]

@DeanoAustin answered this point very well earlier in the thread. Plus weve been here before, Trappatoni, LVG and now Conte, Levy keeps chasing the shiny toys, irrespective of whether they are the best fit.

I've not seen one good answer to this point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way we conducted ourselves.

These top tier clubs have the money to accommodate different managers and their whims on buying new players. Spurs unfortunately don't. There we cannot operate the same way although Levy wants to think we are one of the big boys We need a different plan where we use our resources more efficiently. Like the Ajax's of this world.

Most of Reals core has been the same for years. that hasn't changed no matter who the manager is

According to tranfermarkt Conte spent 302 million at Chelsea on 9 players, and 195million on 6 players at Inter. More money than he is likely to spend here and he's not widely regarded as a development type manager.

You conveniently ignore the money recouped from sales. He spent in the region of 80 million net.

Managers that have done well namely Jol, Redknapp and Poch have on average lasted 3 seasons. The others have lasted less than 2, Santini not even one. So it does matter who you appoint in terms of longevity. Plus failures cost money, money that presumably could be spent else where.

I was talking in general, not just about Tottenham. Even for those successful managers, 3 seasons isn't a long term appointment. Every manager is eventually a failure, otherwise they wouldn't be sacked, and costs money.

 

[Lilbaz]

Sure. But there was no TEN HAG FRONT RUNNER DEAL IMMINENT stories. He was an obvious person we should have spoken to.

The entire tone of the Poch and Conte stories was completely different.

No because ajax sprung an extension on his deal as did psg with poch. Conte was out of contract. We had poch has asked to leave psg stories, did he? Or was that flimflam?

I agree it was a mess as in all over the press. I agree that spurs should keep their mouths shut. I agree this all makes levy look like a bit of a dingdong and can't make his mind up. I just don't think levy cares what the media are going to say about this. He'll want to get who he thinks is right for spurs going forward, if that takes another week so be it.
Yes he is opportunistic and will try for a deal that might be unlikely. Eriksen came off as did bale (loan) and mourinho. Others didn't.

I understand it's frustrating for fans and managers. But it's been 20 years now, we know how he works. It's not some evil plot, he just wants to get the best deals for spurs. It doesn't always work out but he's not trying to destroy the club.

 

[Robspur12]

I've not seen one good answer to this point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way we conducted ourselves.

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

Most of Reals core has been the same for years. that hasn't changed no matter who the manager is

Again according to tranfermarkt their spend in the last 5 years has been around £650 million. They have had in that period a massive churn of players.

You conveniently ignore the money recouped from sales. He spent in the region of 80 million net.

What's the relevance of net spend? Aside from Harry Kane,.how will he generate the fees to enable him to spend what he has at Chelsea and Inter? Point is he buys in expensive, top class players. He is unlikely to be able to do that at Spurs.

I was talking in general, not just about Tottenham. Even for those successful managers, 3 seasons isn't a long term appointment. Every manager is eventually a failure, otherwise they wouldn't be sacked, and costs money.

I get that but if your manager is successful their success will generate money that cushions some of the loss when you sack them, in contrast to the failures. Top tier managerial failures like Jose I imagine will cost more to compensate than someone like Martin Jol for example.

 

[Lilbaz]

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree.



Again according to tranfermarkt their spend in the last 5 years has been around £650 million. They have had in that period a massive churn of players.



What's the relevance of net spend? Aside from Harry Kane,.how will he generate the fees to enable him to spend what he has at Chelsea and Inter? Point is he buys in expensive, top class players. He is unlikely to be able to do that at Spurs.


I get that but if your manager is successful their success will generate money that cushions some of the loss when you sack them, in contrast to the failures. Top tier managerial failures like Jose I imagine will cost more to compensate than someone like Martin Jol for example.

Tbf it doesn't seem that sacking jose in the end was that expensive. In comparison to some other managers. Ofcourse again we are relying on the media.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Blah blah blah

 

[Baleforce]

Blah blah blah

 

[Mikey10]

How do we know that we approached or were turned down by them? The usual comments in some rag?
Also, if you want to go by the same rags, Poch didn't turn us down PSG wouldn't let him leave and we walked away from Conte.

Whether we’ve been turned down by five managers, one manager, or none, to still be without one almost two months after sacking our last smacks of terrible leadership - and the total absence of a plan at the very top.