Next Manager?

[billyiddo]

I was talking about on this forum.

So was i - it's a lot closer than you'd think

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Or it leaked from the other side and the club couldn't flat out lie to the few friendly journos we have when asked a direct question.

I asked this before, but what’s the issue with the ‘We’re doing a thorough search, Conte is a great manager but we don’t want to comment on individuals at this stage’?

Why not temper it a bit?

And which side leaked the Poch stuff?

 

[Lilbaz]

Again, in the grand scheme of things across the Spurs fan base, this small pocket on Glory Glory is one of the only places with a relentless pro-Levy, pro-ENIC slant. My assumptions are not strange to a significant proportion of the fan base, because a lot of people are seeing it that way. And again, I’m not saying the majority has a right to be right, but I am saying a lot of people don’t think ENIC can be trusted.

I've said numerous times i'd be happy for a new owner to come in that can help out financially by clearing the debt. I just don't think there's any need to hate levy for the simple fact that he's not an oligarch or owns a country. I get the jealousy of city and chelsea but that's no reason to use every chance to bash levy (not saying you are doing that by the way). Just seems unfair to me.
I think the anger should be that owners are allowed to financially dope teams, pushing up wages and the values of players to the point that teams across europe are now in a financial mess. We need proper wage controls.

I don't mind new owners come in the invest in stadium, but what city, chelsea, everton, leicester and everton are doing is bad for the game.

Lets say an ambitious owner came in and bought us. He spends £200m of his own money into players. Our wage bill will also go up. Now, city, chelsea etc... have ambitious owners too. So they put in another £300m. Then the next season is the same and so on. Wages and prices of players keep on increasing. Now not everyone can win a trophy. If we don't win the fans will want more. Soon somebody will lose interest. Just as learner did at villa, qpr, sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, leeds, portsmouth, blackburn... now the club have to sell and cut wages massively. But they haven't won so their players aren't worth that much and on huge wages so you have to cover some. You start a downward spiral. Unless a new owner comes in you are pretty fudged. And most do get fudged.

We need to stop that cycle. Clubs should be self sustainable, shouldn't need money from their owners. Hopefully the fan lead review and an independent body with regulatory backing can change it. Ffp could have worked but uefa fudged it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You’re making a massive drama over something that’s really not that big a deal. We had talks with a coach, and decided he’s not for us. This ‘PR disaster’ line you’re trying to spin is nonsense. Come the start of the season our talks with Conte won’t be getting a mention, I remember loads of clubs having talks with managers and players that have fallen through but I can’t remember any of them. Why? Because in the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal, gets spoken about for a few days and then the footballing world moves onto the next big story. Seriously, get over it…..

I think it is reasonably likely that it was the other way round mate.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We've clearly tried to get Poch and Conte. The potential for press exaggeration aside, no one can credibly doubt that we pursued both, made contact and talks broke down.

With Conte everything points to him wanting more/better resources than we were willing to offer. If we thought Conte would come in without looking for significant investment, we haven't been paying attention to how he operates which infers a degree of incompetence on our behalf.

To so publicly court two big name managers means you have to deliver a big name manager or you have a disgruntled fan base. I can't think of a club that's been so strongly linked with two big names, to the point that enquiries and talks are confirmed to have happened, and the club ends up with a Graham Potter level manager (if that's what happens).

This circus has also heaped massive pressure on the club and weakened it's negotiating position. Next manager we speak to, particularly if its a big name, knows the club can't afford another public embarrassment. The PR battle matters and you can be sure Levy knows that as well as anyone. His reputation has taken a hammering over the last 3 months or so.

The reasons behind the Conte situation particularly have an echo of every criticism levelled at our owners over the years. We'll talk big but when it comes to bricking or getting off the pot, we just get off the pot. When it happens time after time, eventually you've got to question the owners. That time has come for me. I'm not saying I want them out, I've been a staunch Levy fan, but if ENIC don't deliver a top manager, I'm struggling to stay in their corner.

Worst of all, by taking the approach we've taken, we've badly tainted an appointment like Potter who I think is a really good coach.

1. Why would he come when he's 4th or 5th choice?
2. If we get into serious negotiations with him, his hand is strengthened. Imagine the fallout if Graham Potter rejects us.
3. By raising fan expectations, a Potter appointment will be greeted with severe disappointment at best by the fan base. He'll look like the bargain basement appointment whereas if we'd gone and got him to start with we could have sold it as a project appointment.

It's a complete clusterfudge by the club and we can blame the press or whoever but no serious club continually ends up with such a disparity between their ambitions and the reality when it comes to this sort of stuff.

I think the brick or get off the pot part of this is very pertinent. Every time, we just get off.

I have been thinking a lot about our standing in the game, and what the manager search says about it. Getting Conte or Poch back would have been a demonstration that we are a true part of the top 6, that we want to win, that our best players can feel comfortable we will win here.

Potter or ETH means our standing hasn’t really progressed since Poch. We’re still that club that’s just a little bit outside the others. We’re not serious about competing for the title. Which means we’re back to where we were when Poch joined, when AVB joined, when Ramos joined.

Our standing under ENIC hasn’t progressed that much. It has, to the extent we have had regular European football. And to the extent we have a better stadium. But we are no closer in terms of likelihood to win the league compared to any of the other clubs. We’re back at 5th or 6th, like we have been for 15 years. And that affects which managers want to come, which players want to come, which players want to stay.

And all of that is fine. I understand the constraints. But I don’t appreciate the pretending. As you say, no other club has this amount of ‘we nearly got…’ only for it to fall down.

 

[Mikey10]

I've said numerous times i'd be happy for a new owner to come in that can help out financially by clearing the debt. I just don't think there's any need to hate levy for the simple fact that he's not an oligarch or owns a country. I get the jealousy of city and chelsea but that's no reason to use every chance to bash levy (not saying you are doing that by the way). Just seems unfair to me.
I think the anger should be that owners are allowed to financially dope teams, pushing up wages and the values of players to the point that teams across europe are now in a financial mess. We need proper wage controls.

I don't mind new owners come in the invest in stadium, but what city, chelsea, everton, leicester and everton are doing is bad for the game.

Lets say an ambitious owner came in and bought us. He spends £200m of his own money into players. Our wage bill will also go up. Now, city, chelsea etc... have ambitious owners too. So they put in another £300m. Then the next season is the same and so on. Wages and prices of players keep on increasing. Now not everyone can win a trophy. If we don't win the fans will want more. Soon somebody will lose interest. Just as learner did at villa, qpr, sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, leeds, portsmouth, blackburn... now the club have to sell and cut wages massively. But they haven't won so their players aren't worth that much and on huge wages so you have to cover some. You start a downward spiral. Unless a new owner comes in you are pretty fudged. And most do get fudged.

We need to stop that cycle. Clubs should be self sustainable, shouldn't need money from their owners. Hopefully the fan lead review and an independent body with regulatory backing can change it. Ffp could have worked but uefa fudged it.

I agree with what you say re the financial side of the game - but that’s not going to change,
I’m afraid.

Joe Lewis is worth £4 billion plus, by the way. Recent reports suggest his personal fortune grew by £350 million during lockdown.

 

[Kandi1977]

Have they got it wrong?
I mean that’s tried to do a deal but I didn’t work out as we couldn’t meet his demands
I’m glad as it means we haven’t panicked to keep fans happy and we will get a manager in who cab and will work within the constraints

Or the other way around, because frankly, Conte doesn't meet many of the requirements set in the end of season note from Levy.

 

[Robspur12]

What was wrong with how they conducted themselves? They talked to a potential manager and it didn't work out, the same way other clubs do.

I mean no disrespect to anyone’s point of view but I think the Conte episode highlights to me one of Levy’s biggest weaknesses; namely his lack of direction when it comes to appointing managers.

Why would Levy have even entertained the idea that Conte was suitable for the role given the history of the guy? Which anyone in football would know. With respect it’s not good enough simply to approach someone just because they are available especially as we operate differently to the clubs with bigger resources. He wants top tier managers but provides them with 2nd tier resources. When will he learn?

When you are recruiting, especially in a niche market, you look at your vacancy, determine the key aspects of the job and the attributes of the person that would fit that role then go to the market with hopefully a shortlist. You don’t just appoint someone because of their name or success at clubs that have a completely different financial framework. Has he not learnt that from Santini, Ramos, AVB and Mourinho? Manager recruitment is an area that is screaming out for a DOF.

Levy has so little nous in this area it is painful. He cannot resist shiny toys when it comes to managers, just look at the managers he’s chased before, Trappatoni, LVG and now Conte! His most successful and long lived managers are the ones he seems to appoint by accident. I am glad he pulled out of the Conte deal because that was a car crash waiting to happen, but the fact he discussed the position with him in the first place just highlights to me that Levy hasn’t learnt anything from past failures. This is why, among other things, I am disillusioned with him and ENIC.

I don’t care if it takes a little longer to appoint a manager, but first appoint a DOF ASAP, sit down with them, have an honest discussion about the constraints the new manager is likely to have to work under, draw up a short list then go and recruit. Not just chase after the latest shiny toy in the market.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I've said numerous times i'd be happy for a new owner to come in that can help out financially by clearing the debt. I just don't think there's any need to hate levy for the simple fact that he's not an oligarch or owns a country. I get the jealousy of city and chelsea but that's no reason to use every chance to bash levy (not saying you are doing that by the way). Just seems unfair to me.
I think the anger should be that owners are allowed to financially dope teams, pushing up wages and the values of players to the point that teams across europe are now in a financial mess. We need proper wage controls.

I don't mind new owners come in the invest in stadium, but what city, chelsea, everton, leicester and everton are doing is bad for the game.

Lets say an ambitious owner came in and bought us. He spends £200m of his own money into players. Our wage bill will also go up. Now, city, chelsea etc... have ambitious owners too. So they put in another £300m. Then the next season is the same and so on. Wages and prices of players keep on increasing. Now not everyone can win a trophy. If we don't win the fans will want more. Soon somebody will lose interest. Just as learner did at villa, qpr, sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, leeds, portsmouth, blackburn... now the club have to sell and cut wages massively. But they haven't won so their players aren't worth that much and on huge wages so you have to cover some. You start a downward spiral. Unless a new owner comes in you are pretty fudged. And most do get fudged.

We need to stop that cycle. Clubs should be self sustainable, shouldn't need money from their owners. Hopefully the fan lead review and an independent body with regulatory backing can change it. Ffp could have worked but uefa fudged it.

I appreciate all of that. I agree with you.

But two things: I don’t hate Levy.

And the issue for me is not that we didn’t get Conte. It’s that it is the latest in a long line of attempts to show we are ambitious for free rather than actually following through with making it happen.

 

[Kandi1977]

Again, in the grand scheme of things across the Spurs fan base, this small pocket on Glory Glory is one of the only places with a relentless pro-Levy, pro-ENIC slant. My assumptions are not strange to a significant proportion of the fan base, because a lot of people are seeing it that way. And again, I’m not saying the majority has a right to be right, but I am saying a lot of people don’t think ENIC can be trusted.

It's not a relentless pro-Enic/Levy. It's just that most of us in here actually have a brain, and a basic understanding of economics.
Do you have a £10m mansion, a private jet and 10 luxury cars?
No?
Why not?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or the other way around, because frankly, Conte doesn't meet many of the requirements set in the end of season note from Levy.

Yep
It takes both parties to agree

 

[Kandi1977]

Why would Levy have even entertained the idea that Conte was suitable for the role given the history of the guy?

Because you can't really know what Conte wants or is ready to do until you actually talk with him.

 

[Lilbaz]

I appreciate all of that. I agree with you.

But two things: I don’t hate Levy.

And the issue for me is not that we didn’t get Conte. It’s that it is the latest in a long line of attempts to show we are ambitious for free rather than actually following through with making it happen.

No it's levy seeing a potential possibilty as he did with mourinho and bale.

 

[Robspur12]

Because you can't really know what Conte wants or is ready to do until you actually talk with him.

I think you have a pretty fair idea if you watch football what happens when you appoint Conte. Potter may be not but Conte yes. Much more with football because of its exposure than in other industries. Plus on top of that appointing Conte to a club that is not in the Champions League and is likely to lose its star player.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's not a relentless pro-Enic/Levy. It's just that most of us in here actually have a brain, and a basic understanding of economics.
Do you have a £10m mansion, a private jet and 10 luxury cars?
No?
Why not?

…Huh?

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree with what you say re the financial side of the game - but that’s not going to change,
I’m afraid.

Joe Lewis is worth £4 billion plus, by the way. Recent reports suggest his personal fortune grew by £350 million during lockdown.

It has to change. Uefa have said they will replace ffp with something stronger. We also have the fan led review. So hopefully they will make meaningful changes. Even the esl had a salary cap so the 12 teams aren't going to argue.

Lewis £4bn is mostly the value of his companies including spurs. He hasn't got it in cash like roman did after selling sibneft.

 

[Legohamster]

PSG offered Wijnaldum more than doubled salary and Gini accepted during the night. Pochettino called him many times in the last 56 hours. PSG now working on next steps - medicals in too. PSG want Gini to sign the contract as soon as possible after his Barça-deal turnaround

doesn’t seem like the actions of a manager willing to push through a move

 

[Robspur12]

Look I am just a fan on a football forum who should be doing something better, but here's my ten pence worth on appointing Spurs managers.

Poch's detractors often claimed that while he performed miracles at Spurs could he step up and manage the top tier clubs? Well last season it became clear that it works the other way too. Top tier managers such as Mourinho and Ancelotti have struggled and mostly failed when managing clubs outside of that top tier.

So to maximize the chance if success you should appoint a manager who can work within the context of where your club is financially and player wise. Our recent history shows this to be largely true, Jol, Redknapp and Poch.

For me that's why I like Ten Haag. Yes I know Ajax have been more successful but he has maintained a reasonable amount of success despite losing the likes of de ligt, Ziyech and the guy who went to Barcelona whose name escapes me. Rodgers although a cnut also fits the profile of a manager who would potentially be a good fit for Spurs. So focus should be on one of these groups of managers and don't be distracted. What if Conte had said yes? How long would he have lasted? Paying off the contract of top tier managers is not cheap I suspect.

Has Levy learnt nothing from Mourinho? That's why we need a DOF to draw up a short list of candidates and we go all out to secure one of them. I can totally see what some posters are saying about Levy being penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to the football side.

 

[scaramanga]

I asked this before, but what’s the issue with the ‘We’re doing a thorough search, Conte is a great manager but we don’t want to comment on individuals at this stage’?

Why not temper it a bit?

And which side leaked the Poch stuff?

Because if you stiff arm all the journos who are friendly, you won't be able to rely on them when you need some friendly stuff in the press.

If they ask a non-specific question about managers then you can brush them off with media statements. If they ask "Has the club spoken to Conte?" then you can't really fob them off and keep them friendly.

It was easier when we just had no pet press and nothing ever leaked.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Because if you stiff arm all the journos who are friendly, you won't be able to rely on them when you need some friendly stuff in the press.

If they ask a non-specific question about managers then you can brush them off with media statements. If they ask "Has the club spoken to Conte?" then you can't really fob them off and keep them friendly.

It was easier when we just had no pet press and nothing ever leaked.

Fine. I think you can absolutely find a way of saying ‘we’re talking to Conte’ without making out he is the front runner, while still keeping the people that rely on access to the club for their career relevance onside.

But let’s accept your premise. Who leaked the Poch stuff? And why were we comfortable stiff arming the journalists for almost 2 months until this past week?