Next Manager?

[Gazza]

I think being a serial winner is a myth. Mourinho has a great record but he's not been the same manager since Madrid.

If Mourinho cannot manage young players, that's his failing not theirs. The best managers adapt their methods or bring in people who can do that. Mourinho appeared to recognise that when he was appointed at Spurs but there seemed to be little evidence of it after the initial honeymoon.

Not been the same after having a tremendous team at Madrid ...

Chelsea: League title and a League Cup with a 59% win percentage ...
Man Utd: Europa League winner and a League cup with a 58% win percentage ....

Would not say that is indicative of a busted flush. Give me some of that any day of the week.

At Spurs he had a 51% win rate with this cruddy team.

Different managers have their own ways of winning and managing players. Your parameters to judge him for not integrating young players? I think his main job was to try to win a cup or two and get into the CL. I dont think he would put his knob on the chopping block to try to bring in young players for the sake of his main prerequisite.

 

[fernadez]

How can being a serial winner be a myth?

The trophies are the evidence.

 

[Gazza]

How can be a serial winner be a myth?

The trophies are the evidence.

Nope, I just don't like him so I have to disagree or find something to hold on to just to cloud my thoughts or support my opinion. People should just come out and say I hate the bloke, but he's a top manager and didn't want him at the club no matter what he did.

 

[DaveT316]

I think it’s a legitimate to debate whether he’s still a top manager or not. For me, a top manager adapts to their surroundings, not the other way around Ie Mourinho would’ve known what he was walking into - although I think people don’t pay enough attention to the impact that Covid had on his appointment and what we could provide with him to work with - and therefore should’ve managed the team on that basis.

I get the point around what he achieved at Chelsea second time around and Utd but the context of what he inherited there / finances at his disposal was very different to what he did at Spurs. You could argue we didn’t provide him with the tools, you could argue he seemed plenty happy with the squad and should’ve done better. Both are fair points of view to have, in my opinion.

Context, as ever, is key.

 

[Gazza]

I think it’s a legitimate to debate whether he’s still a top manager or not. For me, a top manager adapts to their surroundings, not the other way around Ie Mourinho would’ve known what he was walking into - although I think people don’t pay enough attention to the impact that Covid had on his appointment and what we could provide with him to work with - and therefore should’ve managed the team on that basis.

I get the point around what he achieved at Chelsea second time around and Utd but the context of what he inherited there / finances at his disposal was very different to what he did at Spurs. You could argue we didn’t provide him with the tools, you could argue he seemed plenty happy with the squad and should’ve done better. Both are fair points of view to have, in my opinion.

Context, as ever, is key.

I think its fair to also say that despite covid, he had a shot at a cup and a great shot in getting across the line into European football. All of which was his prerequisite. He probably thought that he could do the job with the current crop and then make additions in the summer to try to get us back in the CL and win a trophy along the way, which would not have been beyond him supplemented few wise buys in the market.

He clearly wanted a top top defender, of which would have meant less game time for Dier ... thats all.

 

[fernadez]

I think there is not that much evidence that he didn't adapt though is there?

Wasn't his points total since he arrived 4th best, we were 5 points off 4th and in cup final when he left. Yeah he binned of Alli which to some is punishable by death but for me not an issue. He let us play attacking then saw we can't defend so played more defensive and we ground out results. Kane in running for Golden Boot and most assists, Son scoring well.

Realistically what else did we expect to be?

I don't think he should have stayed past the summer necessarily, but sacking him when we did was farcical.

 

[harr1984]

I think it’s a legitimate to debate whether he’s still a top manager or not. For me, a top manager adapts to their surroundings, not the other way around Ie Mourinho would’ve known what he was walking into - although I think people don’t pay enough attention to the impact that Covid had on his appointment and what we could provide with him to work with - and therefore should’ve managed the team on that basis.

I get the point around what he achieved at Chelsea second time around and Utd but the context of what he inherited there / finances at his disposal was very different to what he did at Spurs. You could argue we didn’t provide him with the tools, you could argue he seemed plenty happy with the squad and should’ve done better. Both are fair points of view to have, in my opinion.

Context, as ever, is key.

Good post, but I dont see any real evidence that he was that happy with the squad. Yes, when he first came he said he was very happy with the squad - what was he meant to say? The squad is bang average except for a select few? Also, to really know about the squad he has to see them up close. Remember he wanted Dier at Man U? Yet after a few months of training him and playing him, Dier was completely dropped....

 

[Gutter Boy]

What real damage are you talking about?

- Destroying players one by one - through bullying, vampiring confidence, erosion of physical conditioning and alienation of the academy
- Poisoning the overall culture of the club

 

[glasgowspur]

Good post, but I dont see any real evidence that he was that happy with the squad. Yes, when he first came he said he was very happy with the squad - what was he meant to say? The squad is bang average except for a select few? Also, to really know about the squad he has to see them up close. Remember he wanted Dier at Man U? Yet after a few months of training him and playing him, Dier was completely dropped....

I like Jose, don't think he's a busted flush, but I didn't think he was the right man for us.
What he said before he came here and when he first came in was a massive red flag to me.
This is a good team on paper, and like paper folds easy. You can't change that and Jose really should have known that.

 

[milo]

Good post, but I dont see any real evidence that he was that happy with the squad. Yes, when he first came he said he was very happy with the squad - what was he meant to say? The squad is bang average except for a select few? Also, to really know about the squad he has to see them up close. Remember he wanted Dier at Man U? Yet after a few months of training him and playing him, Dier was completely dropped....

His fingerprints are all over our transfers last summer. Apart from Hojbjerg, he used and then discarded them. Mourinho isn't interested in developing players, which is why he has such a high turnover of players in teams he manages. You can't argue with the success that it has brought him in the past but you can question whether it was even a good fit for us.

 

[Gazza]

- Destroying players one by one - through bullying, vampiring confidence, erosion of physical conditioning and alienation of the academy
- Poisoning the overall culture of the club

All sounds very emotional ... its what he has done throughout his career in getting titles and winning players with winners' mentalities. Gosh, people are so fragile these days.

We do not have a culture at the club at the moment apart from having a lovely P&L.

 

[milo]

- Destroying players one by one - through bullying, vampiring confidence, erosion of physical conditioning and alienation of the academy
- Poisoning the overall culture of the club

Dragging the club publicly through the mud as he tries to shift the blame for his mistakes when it all falls to pieces.

 

[Gazza]

His fingerprints are all over our transfers last summer. Apart from Hojbjerg, he used and then discarded them. Mourinho isn't interested in developing players, which is why he has such a high turnover of players in teams he manages. You can't argue with the success that it has brought him in the past but you can question whether it was even a good fit for us.

A bit more balanced in view. However his fingerprints were all over Bergwijn? Rodon? Doherty? These have the fingerprints of Daniel Levy written all over them. He wanted world-class defenders but end up with multiple mediocre players.

 

[DaveT316]

Good post, but I dont see any real evidence that he was that happy with the squad. Yes, when he first came he said he was very happy with the squad - what was he meant to say? The squad is bang average except for a select few? Also, to really know about the squad he has to see them up close. Remember he wanted Dier at Man U? Yet after a few months of training him and playing him, Dier was completely dropped....

Yes that’s a very fair point re what was he expected to say when he came in. I would perhaps counter and say it would be very un-Mourinho like to walk into a role that didn’t have a squad that was / he felt was close to being the finished article Ie he’s historically been pretty risk averse with his career choices - until us! - and therefore he probably felt he had more than enough to work with, at least in the short term.

 

[Gazza]

Dragging the club publicly through the mud as he tries to shift the blame for his mistakes when it all falls to pieces.

Which manager doesn't drag the club through the mud when they are going to leave? He just gets more exposure as he makes the headlines no matter which direction he farts in.

 

[harr1984]

His fingerprints are all over our transfers last summer. Apart from Hojbjerg, he used and then discarded them. Mourinho isn't interested in developing players, which is why he has such a high turnover of players in teams he manages. You can't argue with the success that it has brought him in the past but you can question whether it was even a good fit for us.

No I’m talking about when he first came here before transfers he said he was very happy with the squad we had.

As for the transfers I don’t believe they were all his players - Hojberg and Reguilon sure, Hart as a backup. But Bale was no way what he wanted, seriously doubt Vini was either. He wanted the Inter Milan CB and got Rodon. He wasn’t backed the way Jose would required to be, so in the end it was a pretty pointless appointment....

 

[Mr Gogolak]

How about the Dortmund guy who's been linked with us and the Barcodes? I haven't seen them this season but I understand he's some sort of Klopp MKII. Any Bundesliga experts out there?

I wonder if he's Klopp's former assistant (whose name I can't remember - I think he was Serbian or Bosnian) who left a couple of years ago saying he taught everything to Klopp and that he'd be nothing without him. Having said that, I think he went on to manage in Russia so it's probably a different guy.

 

[fernadez]

He hasn't said anything has he?

I thought in fact during his time here he carried himself well. The times he called out the players they deserved it, as evidence by performances since he left.

It's better for them that's he gone cause now they're (again) on easy street. Can do what they like under Mason.

 

[Raziel]

No I’m talking about when he first came here before transfers he said he was very happy with the squad we had.

As for the transfers I don’t believe they were all his players - Hojberg and Reguilon sure, Hart as a backup. But Bale was no way what he wanted, seriously doubt Vini was either. He wanted the Inter Milan CB and got Rodon. He wasn’t backed the way Jose would required to be, so in the end it was a pretty pointless appointment....

Hart, PEH & Doherty were his calls, so was Vinicius

Reguilon wasn't, Reguilon was an opportunistic buy (apparently the club have been following him for some time), without Reguilon we would have played 5 at back or Davies would have sat back and Doherty would have made more sense. But I think Jose clearly was a fan anyway.

Bale wasn't, again opportunistic

Rodon was cover as we didn't get one of the first choices, I'd assume the plan was to survive this season and double down on the effort to get a top CB this summer.

Jose is not a fluke, the trophies prove it (where many others have failed), does he still have it? another question

His inability to extract another 5 points out of this season and to hold on to a 3-0 lead in Europe is the margin that cost him.

 

[fernadez]

Harry Kane to Gary Neville: “Daniel would have had his reasons for doing it [sacking Mourinho] but I was surprised. We know Jose’s record in finals. We found out five minutes before everybody else did.”

“Jose obviously expected us to be men and act like men on the pitch, to have leaders on the pitch and to be honest, that’s probably where it didn’t quite work out with Jose, we didn’t quite have enough leadership that we needed.”