New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)

[alekaras]

I don't know how much more evidence you need that some of these players don't work for *any* manager, mate. Not Poch, not Mourinho, not Nuno, not Mason, not Conte, not Stellini.

No one. No one can turn Eric Dier into a footballer. No one can make Ben Davies anything other than mediocre. No one can give Sanchez a brain or footballing skills. No one can make Lucas not run down blind alleyways. No one can make Sessegnon anything other than a shrinking violet. And so on.

If some bloke came in and proclaimed himself happy to work with our squad as it stands, I would instantly suspect their competence and even their sanity. Demanding major changes is a sign that they have their head screwed on right.

No one said that anyone should be ecstatic to work with the squad we have. But that also doesn't mean that they should not have to prove that they can make the sum better than the individual parts and improve players. So if someone comes in and tells me I need to get rid and buy new, I'd question his abilities. Dier, Davies, and Sanchez will never be world-beaters, but we all sang their praises at one time or another. I'm not saying we should keep them, just pointing out that a good manager can get them to perform to a level that we would like. That's the kind of manager I want.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

And someone who would literally think that Levy was doing the right thing if he was found in the middle of our blazing stadium holding a set of matches and a can of petrol.

Nothing negative in the press about Levy is ever to be believed. Every journalist who reports it is wrong. Everyone who believes anything negative about him - despite any clear negative evidence in the public domain - is a fool.

Right you are.

Maybe he is Scott Munn

 

[Gazza]

No one said that anyone should be ecstatic to work with the squad we have. But that also doesn't mean that they should not have to prove that they can make the sum better than the individual parts and improve players. So if someone comes in and tells me I need to get rid and buy new, I'd question his abilities. Dier, Davies, and Sanchez will never be world-beaters, but we all sang their praises at one time or another. I'm not saying we should keep them, just pointing out that a good manager can get them to perform to a level that we would like. That's the kind of manager I want.

The sort of manager I want is to shift the dead wood. Acknowledge Sanchez or Dier will never be class and never pick them again

 

[DubSpur]

The sort of manager I want is to shift the dead wood. Acknowledge Sanchez or Dier will never be class and never pick them again

It's up to the DoF to shift the deadwood not the manager. If the manager doesn't have alternatives to Sanchez or Dier then he has to use them.
It's why getting the DoF sorted is as important as getting the manager sorted.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Poch had managed successful mid-table teams in the two best/toughest leagues in the world - Spain and England.

The Dutch league these days slots into the third tier - beneath Portugal and Turkey about level with Scotland

It's clearly not level with Scotland. It is probably just beneath Portugal however.

 

[Finney Is Back]

School? Stop embarrassing yourself.

It finished 4-2 on aggregate after extra time. Roma equalised in the 89th min.
On paper Roma should have won that game easily. So it was far from Mourinho schooling him.

If anything it was the other way round. Feyenoord were very close to going through at the expense of Roma, despite Roma being far better equipped in terms of having better players and a much bigger budget. Feyenoord ran out of steam in extra time as is natural for a high energy pressing team. It was a shame in many ways that Feyenoord hadn't carried a bigger advantage into the game as their play in the first leg probably deserved.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If anything it was the other way round. Feyenoord were very close to going through at the expense of Roma, despite Roma being far better equipped in terms of having better players and a much bigger budget. Feyenoord ran out of steam in extra time as is natural for a high energy pressing team. It was a shame in many ways that Feyenoord hadn't carried a bigger advantage into the game as their play in the first leg probably deserved.

Yep
Roma got lucky
But that’s cup football

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yep
Roma got lucky
But that’s cup football

Note that while I rate Slot highly, I am apprehensive about him taking over at Spurs. He has been able to shape reasonable young players into a coherent system with a good shape at Feyenoord but the quality (and more so, experience levels of the quality players) in that league isn't particularly high, which makes it easier to do well by creating a high energy system where mistakes through pressing are more likely as well as having a higher chance of being rewarded. The quality and experience in the PL is vastly superior and many teams will be much better at playing through the press, with those that aren't adept at doing so fine to instead just play over the top of it (something that rarely happens in the Dutch League).

Additionally, we currently do not have a squad that suits his style of football. For him to have the remotest chance of success the recruitment department (still to be set up) will need to get Slot as a minimum.... A new keeper, 2 x new centre backs, at least one creative midfield player and likely a new left back as well. Perhaps even another player who can play from the wide left position. The manager will also likely need those players right at the start of the window as the way that he has his teams playing is chalk and cheese from the way that we have been playing for the last 4 years or so and will need a lot of coaching and is unlikely to start properly bearing fruit until the second half of the season even with a full pre-season to work in.

We also have a semi-toxic environment in the stadium at the moment with the home fans apathetic at best and apoplectic at worst, as well as our away fans chanting more and more loudly for the chairman to go at each away game. I don't think the new manager will get much in the way of understanding as he'll be seen by many as a Levy 'cheap' option (I'm not saying that is the way that I see him but with Poch going to Chelsea with us not wanting him and us also apparently not being interested in talking to Nagelsmann that will be a natural reaction from many in the stadium).

It is also likely that unless we sell Harry Kane we don't have much in the way of net budget to spend (no Europe and £80m already needing to be spent on Kulu and Porro) and if we do sell Kane then I'm not sure the £80 odd million of transfer funds he'd bring in would make up for the 15+ goals that we'd lose by having Richarlison up front instead of Kane.

With there likely being no European football we also may not have the luxury of games against far weaker and more forgiving opponents than those in the Premier League to allow the team to get used to the new style of football.

Finally we have a chairman who has repeatedly shown that he doesn't show managers any patience to allow them to go through a rebuild. If we're not in the top 7 after about 12 games then the axe is likely to fall and I think Slot is a manager who would likely need a decent amount of time (perhaps even 18 to 24 months) to build something decent at Spurs.

 

[Dicko]

Weren't the Belgium and Dutch leagues meant to be merging into a 'Benelux' league at some point? I wonder if that got canned


EDIT: Quick google tells me it was very close and all the Belgium teams voted for it but the top Dutch sides like Ajax and Feyenoord got cold feet and pulled the plug

 

[Mcfee]

Note that while I rate Slot highly, I am apprehensive about him taking over at Spurs. He has been able to shape reasonable young players into a coherent system with a good shape at Feyenoord but the quality (and more so, experience levels of the quality players) in that league isn't particularly high, which makes it easier to do well by creating a high energy system where mistakes through pressing are more likely as well as having a higher chance of being rewarded. The quality and experience in the PL is vastly superior and many teams will be much better at playing through the press, with those that aren't adept at doing so fine to instead just play over the top of it (something that rarely happens in the Dutch League).

Additionally, we currently do not have a squad that suits his style of football. For him to have the remotest chance of success the recruitment department (still to be set up) will need to get Slot as a minimum.... A new keeper, 2 x new centre backs, at least one creative midfield player and a likely a new left back as well. Perhaps even another player who can play from the wide left position. The manager will also likely need those players right at the start of the window as the way that he has his teams playing is chalk and cheese from the way that we have been playing for the last 4 years or so and will need a lot of coaching and is unlikely to start properly bearing fruit until the second half of the season even with a full pre-season to work in.

We also have a semi-toxic environment in the stadium at the moment with the home fans apathetic at best and apoplectic at worst, as well as our away fans chanting more and more loudly for the chairman to go at each away game. I don't think the new manager will get much in the way of understanding as he'll be seen by many as a Levy 'cheap' option (I'm not saying that is the way that I see him but with Poch going to Chelsea with us not wanting him and us also apparently not being interested in talking to Nagelsmann that will be a natural reaction from many in the stadium).

It is also likely that unless we sell Harry Kane we don't have much in the way of net budget to spend (no Europe and £80m already needing to be spent on Kulu and Porro) and if we do sell Kane then I'm not sure the £80 odd million of transfer funds he'd bring in would make up for the 15+ goals that we'd lose by having Richarlison up front instead of Kane.

With there likely being no European football we also may not have the luxury of games against far weaker and more forgiving opponents than in the Premier League for the team to get used to the new style of football.

Finally we have a chairman who has repeatedly shown that he doesn't show managers any patience to go through a rebuild. If we're not in the top 7 after about 12 games then the axe is likely to fall and I think Slot is a manager who would likely need a decent amount of time (perhaps even 18 to 24 months) to build something decent at Spurs.

I think the scale of change that most people want in terms of the way we play is huge and will take a serious amount of effort, time and patience. How adaptable is Slot? A certain amount of pragmatism will be required.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think the scale of change that most people want in terms of the way we play is huge and will take a serious amount of effort, time and patience.

Indeed. Patience that our chairman has continually proven he doesn't have.

Ruben Amorim is the coach that we would probably bring in if we happened to be a well run football club with a considered philosophy and continuity in mind to give the best possible chance of success. However we've never seemed to have that sort of direction from the top so we could bring in absolutely anyone with absolutely any style of football.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think the scale of change that most people want in terms of the way we play is huge and will take a serious amount of effort, time and patience. How adaptable is Slot? A certain amount of pragmatism will be required.

Very from what he has done in the last two seasons
Two new teams basically

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Note that while I rate Slot highly, I am apprehensive about him taking over at Spurs. He has been able to shape reasonable young players into a coherent system with a good shape at Feyenoord but the quality (and more so, experience levels of the quality players) in that league isn't particularly high, which makes it easier to do well by creating a high energy system where mistakes through pressing are more likely as well as having a higher chance of being rewarded. The quality and experience in the PL is vastly superior and many teams will be much better at playing through the press, with those that aren't adept at doing so fine to instead just play over the top of it (something that rarely happens in the Dutch League).

Additionally, we currently do not have a squad that suits his style of football. For him to have the remotest chance of success the recruitment department (still to be set up) will need to get Slot as a minimum.... A new keeper, 2 x new centre backs, at least one creative midfield player and likely a new left back as well. Perhaps even another player who can play from the wide left position. The manager will also likely need those players right at the start of the window as the way that he has his teams playing is chalk and cheese from the way that we have been playing for the last 4 years or so and will need a lot of coaching and is unlikely to start properly bearing fruit until the second half of the season even with a full pre-season to work in.

We also have a semi-toxic environment in the stadium at the moment with the home fans apathetic at best and apoplectic at worst, as well as our away fans chanting more and more loudly for the chairman to go at each away game. I don't think the new manager will get much in the way of understanding as he'll be seen by many as a Levy 'cheap' option (I'm not saying that is the way that I see him but with Poch going to Chelsea with us not wanting him and us also apparently not being interested in talking to Nagelsmann that will be a natural reaction from many in the stadium).

It is also likely that unless we sell Harry Kane we don't have much in the way of net budget to spend (no Europe and £80m already needing to be spent on Kulu and Porro) and if we do sell Kane then I'm not sure the £80 odd million of transfer funds he'd bring in would make up for the 15+ goals that we'd lose by having Richarlison up front instead of Kane.

With there likely being no European football we also may not have the luxury of games against far weaker and more forgiving opponents than those in the Premier League to allow the team to get used to the new style of football.

Finally we have a chairman who has repeatedly shown that he doesn't show managers any patience to allow them to go through a rebuild. If we're not in the top 7 after about 12 games then the axe is likely to fall and I think Slot is a manager who would likely need a decent amount of time (perhaps even 18 to 24 months) to build something decent at Spurs.

Slot has done at least as well as ten hag and most of us would have been very happy with him

 

[DubSpur]

Note that while I rate Slot highly, I am apprehensive about him taking over at Spurs. He has been able to shape reasonable young players into a coherent system with a good shape at Feyenoord but the quality (and more so, experience levels of the quality players) in that league isn't particularly high, which makes it easier to do well by creating a high energy system where mistakes through pressing are more likely as well as having a higher chance of being rewarded. The quality and experience in the PL is vastly superior and many teams will be much better at playing through the press, with those that aren't adept at doing so fine to instead just play over the top of it (something that rarely happens in the Dutch League).

Additionally, we currently do not have a squad that suits his style of football. For him to have the remotest chance of success the recruitment department (still to be set up) will need to get Slot as a minimum.... A new keeper, 2 x new centre backs, at least one creative midfield player and likely a new left back as well. Perhaps even another player who can play from the wide left position. The manager will also likely need those players right at the start of the window as the way that he has his teams playing is chalk and cheese from the way that we have been playing for the last 4 years or so and will need a lot of coaching and is unlikely to start properly bearing fruit until the second half of the season even with a full pre-season to work in.

We also have a semi-toxic environment in the stadium at the moment with the home fans apathetic at best and apoplectic at worst, as well as our away fans chanting more and more loudly for the chairman to go at each away game. I don't think the new manager will get much in the way of understanding as he'll be seen by many as a Levy 'cheap' option (I'm not saying that is the way that I see him but with Poch going to Chelsea with us not wanting him and us also apparently not being interested in talking to Nagelsmann that will be a natural reaction from many in the stadium).

It is also likely that unless we sell Harry Kane we don't have much in the way of net budget to spend (no Europe and £80m already needing to be spent on Kulu and Porro) and if we do sell Kane then I'm not sure the £80 odd million of transfer funds he'd bring in would make up for the 15+ goals that we'd lose by having Richarlison up front instead of Kane.

With there likely being no European football we also may not have the luxury of games against far weaker and more forgiving opponents than those in the Premier League to allow the team to get used to the new style of football.

Finally we have a chairman who has repeatedly shown that he doesn't show managers any patience to allow them to go through a rebuild. If we're not in the top 7 after about 12 games then the axe is likely to fall and I think Slot is a manager who would likely need a decent amount of time (perhaps even 18 to 24 months) to build something decent at Spurs.

All fair points.

Not having European football can be an advantage though. It allows time on the training pitch and to concentrate on getting to grips with what Slot wants. We've also seen how not having European football helps sides in the league.

Levy is no different to other chairmen when it comes to changing managers, all clubs do it and it's getting quicker all the time. With Munn and the new DoF hopefully the analysis will be more data driven rather than looking at league position.

 

[Finney Is Back]

All fair points.

Not having European football can be an advantage though. It allows time on the training pitch and to concentrate on getting to grips with what Slot wants. We've also seen how not having European football helps sides in the league.

Levy is no different to other chairmen when it comes to changing managers, all clubs do it and it's getting quicker all the time. With Munn and the new DoF hopefully the analysis will be more data driven rather than looking at league position.

Levy wouldn't have kept Arteta like Arsenal did. I doubt he would've got the chance to into the season when he had his second 8th place finish and absolutely wouldn't have been retained having done so. Liverpool also gave Klopp time and stuck with him whereas our chairman has done anything but.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Slot has done at least as well as ten hag and most of us would have been very happy with him

He hasn't done as well as Ten Hag in pure trophy terms but I appreciate that winning the league with Feyenoord is a bigger achievement than doing so with Ajax.

It's not the fact that he has only won in the Netherlands that concerns me to be honest, it is that the style of football he coaches is so different to the one we have played for the last 4 plus years and the fact that the squad is currently ill equipped for his system.

I think given time and resources Slot would do really well at Spurs, I just don't see him being given them (especially the former). Recent history shows us that managers at Spurs do not get given any time at all (even those with lots of credit in the Bank).

 

[DubSpur]

Levy wouldn't have kept Arteta like Arsenal did. I doubt he would've got the chance to into the season when he had his second 8th place finish and absolutely wouldn't have been retained having done so. Liverpool also gave Klopp time and stuck with him whereas our chairman has done anything but.

They are the exceptions to the rule. Just look at the amount of sackings this season and you'll see that the majority of chairmen are the same or even more trigger happy than Levy. That's not excusing him. I do think that you're making it a bit too simplistic saying that if we're outside CL he pulls the trigger, it's obviously a factor but there's normally more to it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

They are the exceptions to the rule. Just look at the amount of sackings this season and you'll see that the majority of chairmen are the same or even more trigger happy than Levy. That's not excusing him. I do think that you're making it a bit too simplistic saying that if we're outside CL he pulls the trigger, it's obviously a factor but there's normally more to it.

I'm not arguing for or against whether Levy is the same or different from other chairmen at football clubs. I'm stating that a manager like Slot is likely to need time and patience at Spurs as his way of playing is as different as can be from the football our players have been coached to play for the past 4 years and we have a lot of gaps in the team at present to be able to successfully implement his system. I am also making the point that our chairman doesn't tend to show managers patience and give them time.

The 'continuity' candidate for our manager's job is clearly Amorim. Amorim would likely need a lot less time and personnel changes to get a tune out of Spurs. If Levy isn't going to give the new manager time and license to be outside of the top 8 in the league then he probably needs to go after Amorim. There is no point in getting a manager like Slot if time isn't going to be given and looking back at past decisions I don't see anything that indicates the chairman is prepared to give a manager time.

Remember also that most clubs are already planning (and even executing) transfer deals for next season. Brighton have struck a deal to buy Joao Pedro from Watford. Brentford have struck a deal to sign Mark Flekken from Freiburg. We don't even yet have a DoF in place so can't really even start planning our required signings for next season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He hasn't done as well as Ten Hag in pure trophy terms but I appreciate that winning the league with Feyenoord is a bigger achievement than doing so with Ajax.

It's not the fact that he has only won in the Netherlands that concerns me to be honest, it is that the style of football he coaches is so different to the one we have played for the last 4 plus years and the fact that the squad is currently ill equipped for his system.

I think given time and resources Slot would do really well at Spurs, I just don't see him being given them (especially the former). Recent history shows us that managers at Spurs do not get given any time at all (even those with lots of credit in the Bank).

He would have won the league over Ten Hag before the season stopped due to Covid
That’s one title with Az on top of the feynoord one
That is very impressive and something that gets forgotten as it never happened
And I agree about time but I do think your forgetting the tail off under Poch was huge (Poch being a reference point), then we had Jose (sacked to save money has we didn’t want him), and conte who quit himself

 

[Finney Is Back]

He would have won the league over Ten Hag before the season stopped due to Covid
That’s one title with Az on top of the feynoord one
That is very impressive and something that gets forgotten as it never happened
And I agree about time but I do think your forgetting the tail off under Poch was huge (Poch being a reference point), then we had Jose (sacked to save money has we didn’t want him), and conte who quit himself

Would is a ‘strong’ and untrue statement. AZ were joint top with Ajax with 9 games to go. They could’ve won the title but remember underdogs often tend to fade away at the business end of the season as Arsenal are showing in the PL at the moment.

and Nuno…. And Stellini….

It’s 100% clear that the chairman doesn’t give the manager time at Spurs, surely you don’t disagree with that?