Moussa Sissoko

[Finney Is Back]

I don't want to.

Doing so would mean that Poch's judgement is way off and would damage our chances of achieving what I hope we can.

If what Poch wants is someone who disconnects our midfield from our front line, who stands in the middle of our passing triangles like a training exercise, then I despair.

Doing so would mean you admitting you were wrong more like....

 

[Daisuk]

Let's look at the statistics from WhoScored, who gives players points during a match based on their performance, and gives an average based on all performances during a season. A short explanation of how the stats are calculated here:
https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations

A short Youtube clip with an explanation too:

Sure, it's not proof that one player is better than another, but it should give us a pretty good indication, yeah? So here are our players average stats this season. Someone like Gazzaniga, who's had one good match against Palace will obviously score higher than a lot of players who have played many matches and so on.

Here's an excel table I just made (I couldn't find this list on whoscored for some reason, so had to compile it myself), of every player that has played for us this season (bar Walker Peters, who's barely played two matches?):

Sissoko scores just above Winks (which surprised me, to be honest), Wanyama who's barely played this season, Lamela who has barely played, and Llorente who has barely played. Dembele, who has also gotten a lot of stick this season, and many want to replace, scores a little higher than Sissoko, but apart from that group of players, there's a pretty big jump from Dembele at 6.64 to Lloris at 6.83. The total score of our team is 146.04, divided by 21, is 6.95. So the team average is 6.95. If we take Kane's ridiculous score out of the equation, we get an average of 6.90.

So! Sissoko is scoring way below average, he's got 16 players ahead of him, that's performing better than him in the team this season, and the players below him, Winks, Wanyama, Lamela and Llorente, have all had very limited playing time, three of them due to injury.

Should he really be playing when everyone is fit? It sure doesn't look like it. Has he been one of our most important players this season? Absolutely not! There's just nothing here to suggest that there are any hidden attributes he adds to the team that we can't spot with the naked eye. There aren't any stats to prove it, anyway (these stats certainly don't, anyway).

Oh, and by the way, I'm by no means a stats geek, I can't explain all the data involved in the calculations, but I think it's interesting to look at none the less. Most of the numbers here I think more or less support how I've perceived various player's performances this season. I reckon Trippier scores quite high due to his assists stats, for instance, and I find it a bit strange that Son doesn't score higher, and that Winks is below Sissoko (though Winks had a few poor matches after that great game against Real).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Let's look at the statistics from WhoScored, who gives players points during a match based on their performance, and gives an average based on all performances during a season. A short explanation of how the stats are calculated here:
https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations

A short Youtube clip with an explanation too:

Sure, it's not proof that one player is better than another, but it should give us a pretty good indication, yeah? So here are our players average stats this season. Someone like Gazzaniga, who's had one good match against Palace will obviously score higher than a lot of players who have played many matches and so on.

Here's an excel table I just made (I couldn't find this list on whoscored for some reason, so had to compile it myself), of every player that has played for us this season (bar Walker Peters, who's barely played two matches?):

Sissoko scores just above Winks (which surprised me, to be honest), Wanyama who's barely played this season, Lamela who has barely played, and Llorente who has barely played. Dembele, who has also gotten a lot of stick this season, and many want to replace, scores a little higher than Sissoko, but apart from that group of players, there's a pretty big jump from Dembele at 6.64 to Lloris at 6.83. The total score of our team is 146.04, divided by 21, is 6.95. So the team average is 6.95. If we take Kane's ridiculous score out of the equation, we get an average of 6.90.

So! Sissoko is scoring way below average, he's got 16 players ahead of him, that's performing better than him in the team this season, and the players below him, Winks, Wanyama, Lamela and Llorente, have all had very limited playing time, three of them due to injury.

Should he really be playing when everyone is fit? It sure doesn't look like it. Has he been one of our most important players this season? Absolutely not! There's just nothing here to suggest that there are any hidden attributes he adds to the team that we can't spot with the naked eye. There aren't any stats to prove it, anyway (these stats certainly don't, anyway).

Interesting stats... and I probably agree with them to be honest. I wouldn't have him in the team when all are fit, but he has done an ok job as a player filling in.

Also quite interesting that whoscored had Sissoko as our 3rd highest rated player against Southampton and yet he came in for his standard level of abuse after the game.... which is the thing that has always irked me.

 

[Daisuk]

Interesting stats... and I probably agree with them to be honest. I wouldn't have him in the team when all are fit, but he has done an ok job as a player filling in.

Also quite interesting that whoscored had Sissoko as our 3rd highest rated player against Southampton and yet he came in for his standard level of abuse after the game.... which is the thing that has always irked me.

Yeah, I saw that! He got a pretty high score in the match. He did quite well for the past 15 minutes where he had some key passes in the box, and a few defensive tackles. I thought he overall was pretty useless in that match (as was the rest of our team, to be fair), but the stats says otherwise.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Let's look at the statistics from WhoScored, who gives players points during a match based on their performance, and gives an average based on all performances during a season. A short explanation of how the stats are calculated here:
https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations

A short Youtube clip with an explanation too:

Sure, it's not proof that one player is better than another, but it should give us a pretty good indication, yeah? So here are our players average stats this season. Someone like Gazzaniga, who's had one good match against Palace will obviously score higher than a lot of players who have played many matches and so on.

Here's an excel table I just made (I couldn't find this list on whoscored for some reason, so had to compile it myself), of every player that has played for us this season (bar Walker Peters, who's barely played two matches?):

Sissoko scores just above Winks (which surprised me, to be honest), Wanyama who's barely played this season, Lamela who has barely played, and Llorente who has barely played. Dembele, who has also gotten a lot of stick this season, and many want to replace, scores a little higher than Sissoko, but apart from that group of players, there's a pretty big jump from Dembele at 6.64 to Lloris at 6.83. The total score of our team is 146.04, divided by 21, is 6.95. So the team average is 6.95. If we take Kane's ridiculous score out of the equation, we get an average of 6.90.

So! Sissoko is scoring way below average, he's got 16 players ahead of him, that's performing better than him in the team this season, and the players below him, Winks, Wanyama, Lamela and Llorente, have all had very limited playing time, three of them due to injury.

Should he really be playing when everyone is fit? It sure doesn't look like it. Has he been one of our most important players this season? Absolutely not! There's just nothing here to suggest that there are any hidden attributes he adds to the team that we can't spot with the naked eye. There aren't any stats to prove it, anyway (these stats certainly don't, anyway).

Oh, and by the way, I'm by no means a stats geek, I can't explain all the data involved in the calculations, but I think it's interesting to look at none the less. Most of the numbers here I think more or less support how I've perceived various player's performances this season. I reckon Trippier scores quite high due to his assists stats, for instance, and I find it a bit strange that Son doesn't score higher, and that Winks is below Sissoko (though Winks had a few poor matches after that great game against Real).

How would you rate aiding the team in transition from defence to attack or vice-versa? How would you score preventing danger from not actually occurring because the player in question was providing balance, shape and sniffing out danger before it became a problem?

And do you believe that Aurier has had a greater impact on our team this season than Alderweireld?

 

[Daisuk]

How would you rate aiding the team in transition from defence to attack or vice-versa? How would you score preventing danger from not actually occurring because the player in question was providing balance, shape and sniffing out danger before it became a problem?

And do you believe that Aurier has had a greater impact on our team this season than Alderweireld?

As I said, I don't know the stats well enough, and I only want to look at them as indicative. Sissoko isn't the only player to help us transition from defense to attack, so whatever stats governs this arent included in the other players calculations either.

Alderweireld has been out injured for a long time, which might contribute to him not scoring as high, I imagine.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

As I said, I don't know the stats well enough, and I only want to look at them as indicative. Sissoko isn't the only player to help us transition from defense to attack, so whatever stats governs this arent included in the other players calculations either.

Alderweireld has been out injured for a long time, which might contribute to him not scoring as high, I imagine.

Yeah, fair enough. Just genuinely curious as I would imagine someone who's job it is to provide balance, as Poch says, won't get as much key stat bump as some of the others. But I don't think he is first 11 when all are fit unless it's for a very specific purpose.

 

[Finney Is Back]

As I said, I don't know the stats well enough, and I only want to look at them as indicative. Sissoko isn't the only player to help us transition from defense to attack, so whatever stats governs this arent included in the other players calculations either.

Alderweireld has been out injured for a long time, which might contribute to him not scoring as high, I imagine.

I would doubt players lose points for being out of the team?

 

[Daisuk]

I would doubt players lose points for being out of the team?

Yeah, they don't. But I guess he hasn't had the chance to rack up a lot of points due to playing less games, and in a part of the season where we didn't do awful, but not especially well either (apart from in the CL). I reckon a lot of players have harnessed higher averages over our Xmas period, where we've scored a lot and had a few clean sheets. I'm just guessing though, as I said, I can't defend these stats to save my life, but they should give some indication.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Something that is quite interesting with those ratings is that Sissoko, Dembele and Winks, who have all played reasonably similar roles this season when in the team have very similar scores.

 

[harr1984]

Something that is quite interesting with those ratings is that Sissoko, Dembele and Winks, who have all played reasonably similar roles this season when in the team have very similar scores.

Indeed, they are all the ‘transition’ types who don’t have roles in the team to really get the assists and goals which would get the real points - that belongs to the front 4.....

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Well, if nothing else, the question many wanted answered - "why Sissoko?" - has now been answered :

"We have to give credit to Moussa. He is giving the team such balance that no one player can give," he said.
"He gives a balance in transitions between defence and attack - offensive to defensive, defensive to offensive . He is right now the only player that can give that. That is the biggest quality. The team needs that balance nowadays.
"For me he is one of the most important players of the season. At times the first impressions sticks and conditions what happens later."
"We create myths. Me too. I am like you! Sometimes we all create myths but most of the times we are not clinical or honest in the way we assess things," said Pochettino.
"Sometimes you think a way about someone because of first impressions and then they stick forever. I like that you give credit to him because he is doing very well."

What a lot of old goobeldy gook.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Seeing the usual suspects splutter and cough, trying not to choke on the humble pie rammed down their throats by none other that Poch himself;
recognising that all their derogatory comments about a player who clearly was trying to give his best for the club, and their snide remarks at posters who rallied against Sissoko's ridiculous spacegoating, had come back to bite them in the arse; and
realising that all their self-righteous convoluted reasons, to explain why one of the best coaches on the planet continued to play the player they derided as a waste of space, had gone up in smoke in an instant....

PRICELESS!!

There are some things money can't buy.... for all the rest there's Mastercard.

Yeah so what did Poch actually mean by that crap? I'll bet you can't decipher it either.

 

[harr1984]

Yeah so what did Poch actually mean by that crap? I'll bet you can't decipher it either.

Sounds like Poch has been reading this thread and sums it up well - ‘We create myths. Sometimes first impressions stick forever.’

 

[Nifel]

I don't understand why Poch praising Sissoko in media proves that Sissoko is great. Statements in media are PR, not truths.

Did not Levy say that we're listening to offers for Sissoko? telling people the truth about him would certainly not open any deals, and we would be stuck with a bad asset.

 

[GGyid]

Well, that game surely ends the debate. Maybe Newport would like to buy for the transition phase?

 

[Legohamster]

Well, that game surely ends the debate. Maybe Newport would like to buy for the transition phase?

To be fair, Wanyama was MUCH worse.

 

[GGyid]

Sean@SeanDZWalsh

Sissoko dribbles like he’s a 7 year old running between cones

• [URL='https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=957325548723884033'] 88 likes[/URL]

The final nail in the coffin for Sissoko and Trippier, not fit to wear the shirt. Get them out ASAP

Not sure what kind of blackmail Sissoko has on Poch, but it must be significant #COYS

For fucck sake!!!! Got away with that!!! It's not even over yet!!!!! What the fudge is Sissoko doing in our team!!!! #COYS #THFC

Quite frustrating how Poch expects youth players to be near perfect to get chances but has no issues with the likes of Llorente and Sissoko constantly underperforming

Moussa Sissoko has got to go go. Please Levy Pleease sell him.

Poch survives for now, but as far as I'm concerned Llorente and Sissoko should never player a game for us again. Would celebrate if they broke their legs

Sissoko update: he’s gotten worse

The f*ck does that bloke see in Sissoko? Worst player to ever pull on a spurs shirt and f*ck me we've had some bad ones. #thfc

Absolutely woeful #thfc No pluses from that game at all. Trippier and Sissoko were like Dumb & Dumber down the right hand side. Embarrassing

No spacegoats just poor from #thfc but my GHod how sissoko gets paid that amount of money and Is awful is beyond me ...

#facup

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Some fantastic transitioning in that game!

I know everyone was brick but it doesn’t excuse Sissoko just because everyone else was just as bad.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Genuinely, he's the worst player I've seen wear the shirt since Stuart Nethercott.

Tramezzani, Gilberto, Raziak? No - Sissy is worse.

I've never seen someone so good at breaking up our play.