Moussa Sissoko

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Which might be true, which might be a way of boosting Sissoko’s confidence, which might be a way of telling the media to fcuk off, which might be a way of telling Levy we need someone better to do that job.

Quite possibly.

As Scara said, I think its just Poch being a pro in the press conference.

If he is asked about any player, his response will be similarly positive because he gives them absolutely nothing.

And steaming into a player does him absolutely no favours at all.

Its white noise, really.

 

[milo]

Playing a player you dont rate is even more expensive, and theres defending a player - his comments went beyond that. But of course it can be spun into him just saying it so can get more money for him, just like start of this season he was only playing so can put him in shop window Prizes for what next excuse will be?

A good test of whether what someone is saying has substance is to reverse the meaning. If it is impossible to imagine someone saying the reverse, there is a very good chance that what they have said is meaningless.

 

[harr1984]

I dont think its manipulation at all, I think it is the key part of the quote.

He is saying, as I read it, Sissoko is essential/doing an essential job in the absence of other players.

Ok, well I dont see it as clear cut as you. You choose to think he's just lying, fine. I choose to think he means what he says and backs that up by consistently playing him. This debate will go down a dead end though,that is the only thing I know for certain.....

 

[harr1984]

A good test of whether what someone is saying has substance is to reverse the meaning. If it is impossible to imagine someone saying the reverse, there is a very good chance that what they have said is meaningless.

Interesting theory Milo....

 

[milo]

Interesting theory Milo....

It's best used on politicians but applies here too I think

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I dont choose to think he is lying at all, Ive simply read the statement.

"We have to give credit to Moussa. He is giving the team such balance that no one player can give," he said.
[He is performing a role in midfield that no one else can do (due to lack of available players perhaps?)]

"He gives a balance in transitions between defence and attack - offensive to defensive, defensive to offensive . He is right now the only player that can give that. That is the biggest quality. The team needs that balance nowadays.
[This role provides balance and right now he is the only player that can do it (because nobody else is fit!)]

"For me he is one of the most important players of the season. At times the first impressions sticks and conditions what happens later."
[He has been doing this important role all season]

With our key midfielders injured all season Sissoko has been in there doing a job. He has been doing that job because they havent been able to.

Seems pretty clear to me. I havent once called him a liar.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Seeing the usual suspects splutter and cough, trying not to choke on the humble pie rammed down their throats by none other that Poch himself;
recognising that all their derogatory comments about a player who clearly was trying to give his best for the club, and their snide remarks at posters who rallied against Sissoko's ridiculous spacegoating, had come back to bite them in the arse; and
realising that all their self-righteous convoluted reasons, to explain why one of the best coaches on the planet continued to play the player they derided as a waste of space, had gone up in smoke in an instant....

PRICELESS!!

There are some things money can't buy.... for all the rest there's Mastercard.

I've gotta say, I'm actually pretty stunned that people can read those Poch quotes and think anything other than exactly what I and a couple of others have been saying about Sissoko all the way through this thread. He has a role, he is playing it well, Poch sees it, and he is literally parroting the exact argument in his most recent presser! Unbelievably brilliant.

On 'I wouldn't expect him to say anything else'....yes, you would. Because Poch can say a million things, or he can say nothing at all. If he is asked about Sissoko, he can criticise heavily, he can brush it off, he can praise, he can do a million things in between. See the difference in his quotes about Marcus Edwards from 2 years ago compared to 6 months or so ago. One time, he is quite deliberately talking him up. The most recent time, he is quite deliberately saying things along the lines of 'he is doing ok, but we have loads of players in the academy also doing well, and there is no one player more important than the rest'. Poch can take it any way he wants, and knows exactly what he is doing.

On 'right now he is the only player can provide this'...is the argument supposed to be that we are waiting for Wanyama to come back, and then he'll be the one to do it? Or Winks? Because we've had Dier for large parts of this season in midfield. We've had Winks. Yes there have been injuries, but it doesn't take away the role Sissoko has been doing, that Poch sees, that people are seemingly still refusing to acknowledge.

People have to admit, reading those quotes and drawing the conclusion that either Poch is mental, or that Poch is merely talking up his player to put him in the shop window, or anything other than what he is actually saying, is just such a stretch. Rather than admitting that a top 4 PL Manager that is under tremendous pressure to win games is simply playing a player that does a job he wants him to do, we are supposed to believe it's all a tightrope act of getting his value up so we can sell him on? Be dammed dropped points in the meantime? Come on guys.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Poch himself said we were trying to sell Sissoko in the summer but nobody wanted him. I'd be very surprsed if we weren't trying to do so again this summer.

I see you pushing this quite a lot and haven't had the chance to come back on it yet.

If Poch wants a player gone, he will be gone. The player will be put in the reserves, training away from the first team, won't be registered for Europe, and will be loaned out if we can't find a buyer because the easiest way to make sure he has value is to make sure he is playing first team football somewhere. We did it with Janssen. We did it with Clinton. We did it with Stambouli. If a player has failed absolutely to make the grade after one season, they are gone.

What happened, was that Poch said he would allow Sissoko to go, but there wasn't a buyer (not disagreeing with you here) so he was happy for him to stay and fight. Sissoko then stayed, and fought. But if we wanted him gone because he was such an undeniable disaster, he would be gone. On loan at least. He would have been forced out.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

@nayimfromthehalfwayline at the very least you have to admit Poch agrees that Sissoko is doing the ‘soldier’ job I was referring to yesterday?

 

[scaramanga]

I see you pushing this quite a lot and haven't had the chance to come back on it yet.

If Poch wants a player gone, he will be gone. The player will be put in the reserves, training away from the first team, won't be registered for Europe, and will be loaned out if we can't find a buyer because the easiest way to make sure he has value is to make sure he is playing first team football somewhere. We did it with Janssen. We did it with Clinton. We did it with Stambouli. If a player has failed absolutely to make the grade after one season, they are gone.

What happened, was that Poch said he would allow Sissoko to go, but there wasn't a buyer (not disagreeing with you here) so he was happy for him to stay and fight. Sissoko then stayed, and fought. But if we wanted him gone because he was such an undeniable disaster, he would be gone. On loan at least. He would have been forced out.

There's no way we can force Sissoko out.

He's purportedly on something north of £80k per week (I've seen as high as £95k). He'd be an absolute fool to go anywhere else because the best he'll get is a fraction of that. We can't loan him unless we do a City and pay a chunk of his wages.

So we're stuck using him (instead of a vastly improved player we could buy instead) as cover for injuries and bigging him up to keep his morale and value up.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

@nayimfromthehalfwayline at the very least you have to admit Poch agrees that Sissoko is doing the ‘soldier’ job I was referring to yesterday?

Ive never denied the role he has been playing. Only his suitability/effectiveness.

Of course he has been doing that job, or at least trying to, I just dont think he is any good at it - and I dont think he is in the same league as any of the examples you gave.

I maintain the view that he has played because we have had nobody else available. As Ive said a dozen times, with Wanyama and co fit and ready all season I doubt we would have seen Sissoko more than a handful of times - nobody has actually contested that which IMO speaks volumes.

 

[milo]

There's no way we can force Sissoko out.

He's purportedly on something like £80k per week. He'd be an absolute fool to go anywhere else because the best he'll get is a fraction of that. We can't loan him unless we do a City and pay a chunk of his wages.

So we're stuck using him (instead of a vastly improved player we could buy instead) a cover for injuries and bigging him up to keep his morale and value up.

I think that there's a fair chance that we might be able to move him on in the summer. His performances this season have probably been good enough for him to get a move to another PL club. Wage and transfer fee inflation work in our favour too.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think that there's a fair chance that we might be able to move him on in the summer. His performances this season have probably been good enough for him to get a move to another PL club. Wage and transfer fee inflation work in our favour too.

And as I said yesterday - under someone like Moyes I think he would be a much more effective player.

If not for the fact they are scum with a problem with us, I could see him going to West Ham quite easily.

WBA another I think would go for him, Pardew seemed to like him at Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

 

[milo]

And as I said yesterday - under someone like Moyes I think he would be a much more effective player.

If not for the fact they are scum with a problem with us, I could see him going to West Ham quite easily.

WBA another I think would go for him, Pardew seemed to like him at Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I was thinking the same earlier. Stoke and Everton might be good fits too.

 

[harr1984]

I dont choose to think he is lying at all, Ive simply read the statement.

"We have to give credit to Moussa. He is giving the team such balance that no one player can give," he said.
[He is performing a role in midfield that no one else can do (due to lack of available players perhaps?)]

"He gives a balance in transitions between defence and attack - offensive to defensive, defensive to offensive . He is right now the only player that can give that. That is the biggest quality. The team needs that balance nowadays.
[This role provides balance and right now he is the only player that can do it (because nobody else is fit!)]

"For me he is one of the most important players of the season. At times the first impressions sticks and conditions what happens later."
[He has been doing this important role all season]

With our key midfielders injured all season Sissoko has been in there doing a job. He has been doing that job because they havent been able to.

Seems pretty clear to me. I havent once called him a liar.

Honestly, I think you're just looking for something that isnt there mate. BoL sums it up perfectly above, and Poch has said much more average things about squad players before rather than the pretty obvious positive statements he's done here with Sissoko. I dont know a player who has spent so long under Poch who he doesnt want, every other player seems to of been long gone - but of course speaking of his importance, keeping him at the club, playing him in every game bar one this season isnt enough to suggest that Poch actually genuinely values the player. Its all a smokescreen (Ive missed that word)....

 

[BrainOfLevy]

There's no way we can force Sissoko out.

He's purportedly on something north of £80k per week (I've seen as high as £95k). He'd be an absolute fool to go anywhere else because the best he'll get is a fraction of that. We can't loan him unless we do a City and pay a chunk of his wages.

So we're stuck using him (instead of a vastly improved player we could buy instead) as cover for injuries and bigging him up to keep his morale and value up.

Uh huh. And he's not doing a job well, even though Poch says so? The more likely scenario is that Poch is talking up his value, giving him this special treatment because we are stuck with him, and throwing out everything he believes in terms of discipline, in terms of a first team place meaning something serious, in terms of building a culture of performance around the club so that standards are raised?

The more likely thing is not that Sissoko has been doing his job well, as a fair few people have argued, but that this is all a big shop window exercise and Poch's presser is the next stop on the roadshow? If he's been as bad as you say he has been, and as ineffective as what he has been asked to do as you say he has been, all season, do you really think Poch would be giving him this special treatment?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Honestly, I think you're just looking for something that isnt there mate. BoL sums it up perfectly above, and Poch has said much more average things about squad players before rather than the pretty obvious positive statements he's done here with Sissoko. I dont know a player who has spent so long under Poch who he doesnt want, every other player seems to of been long gone - but of course speaking of his importance, keeping him at the club, playing him in every game bar one this season isnt enough to suggest that Poch actually genuinely values the player. Its all a smokescreen (Ive missed that word)....

There is a very clear qualifier in his statement = right now he is the only player that can do it. That adds a great deal of context to what he is saying.

Im not looking for anything, Im reading what is there.

You seem to be reading it and skimming that sentence as it contradicts what you want to see.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

There is a very clear qualifier in his statement = right now he is the only player that can do it. That adds a great deal of context to what he is saying.

Im not looking for anything, Im reading what is there.

You seem to be reading it and skimming that sentence as it contradicts what you want to see.

Ok, let's say for argument sake he is saying right now (even though Dier, Dembele, Winks have all also been fit at various times this season and Sissoko has still played, and even though Wanyama is now back so 'right now' doesn't really need to apply) because he means that Sissoko has only played because no one else is available.

Let's say we agree with that. Is the more likely scenario that Poch is talking him up to such an extent because we are desperate to sell him and he needs to make the shop window as attractive as possible? Or is it simply that Poch thinks Sissoko deserves some credit for being able to fulfill the exact role he has been asked to do?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Ok, let's say for argument sake he is saying right now (even though Dier, Dembele, Winks have all also been fit at various times this season and Sissoko has still played, and even though Wanyama is now back so 'right now' doesn't really need to apply) because he means that Sissoko has only played because no one else is available.

Let's say we agree with that. Is the more likely scenario that Poch is talking him up to such an extent because we are desperate to sell him and he needs to make the shop window as attractive as possible? Or is it simply that Poch thinks Sissoko deserves some credit for being able to fulfill the exact role he has been asked to do?

Its not an "arguments sake" thing, its exactly what he said. You guys are so keen to take him at his words - why skim over that bit?

Yes other players have been fit at points - but we havent had a proper pool of players to choose from. At any time, as Harry would say, we're at the bare bones.

Pochettino hasnt had choices in selection for doing that job, hence Sissoko has played, Ive made that point consistently.

I dont buy the shop window flimflam, dont try attributing that to me, its nonsense. Since when has a player ever been bought on the back of his current manager offering some kind words in a press conference?

I think, very simply, Pochettino is always positive in press conferences. He specialises in the PR of no PR. Everyone is good, everything is nice, nothing is ever controversial. He is asked about Sissoko and he says "Yeah, great job" and no doubt moves onto the next question.

If not for the, quite ridiculous, level of argument in this thread nobody would even bat an eye lid at these comments.

 

[Modric THFC]

People have to admit, reading those quotes and drawing the conclusion that either Poch is mental.....

That's the conclusion I got from reading parts of the book.

Meanwhile some of you act like Poch is infallible. He's good manager not GHod.