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Moussa Sissoko

Modric THFC said:
That's the conclusion I got from reading parts of the book.

Meanwhile some of you act like Poch is infallible. He's good manager not GHod.
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And meanwhile some just need to keep digging to try to find some sort of negativity.

Up for any healthy discussing but to make that statement from reading one book does not define the man, nor give a precise narrative of the man.

There are things that I think of certain people and policies etc but I dare not tarnish my real character in public for the sake of professionalism.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Uh huh. And he's not doing a job well, even though Poch says so? The more likely scenario is that Poch is talking up his value, giving him this special treatment because we are stuck with him, and throwing out everything he believes in terms of discipline, in terms of a first team place meaning something serious, in terms of building a culture of performance around the club so that standards are raised?

The more likely thing is not that Sissoko has been doing his job well, as a fair few people have argued, but that this is all a big shop window exercise and Poch's presser is the next stop on the roadshow? If he's been as bad as you say he has been, and as ineffective as what he has been asked to do as you say he has been, all season, do you really think Poch would be giving him this special treatment?
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Yes I do. Poch very clearly goes out of his way to ensure all the players are loved and have warm, fuzzy feelings about the team. Rightly so too - a strong team spirit is vital to overachieving like we are.

Poch is perfectly capable of reading the press and social media and seeing what the world thinks of Sissoko. It's absolutely his job to counter that whether he believes it or not.
 
milo said:
I think that there's a fair chance that we might be able to move him on in the summer. His performances this season have probably been good enough for him to get a move to another PL club. Wage and transfer fee inflation work in our favour too.
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I agree, I just don't think we'll force him out - it will have to be mutual.

That's the downside of paying over the odds (not something we do often, fortunately). If he decides he doesn't want to go, he can sit and earn more with us that anywhere else.
 
scaramanga said:
Yes I do. Poch very clearly goes out of his way to ensure all the players are loved and have warm, fuzzy feelings about the team. Rightly so too - a strong team spirit is vital to overachieving like we are.

Poch is perfectly capable of reading the press and social media and seeing what the world thinks of Sissoko. It's absolutely his job to counter that whether he believes it or not.
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Fair enough. And if you want to go ahead believing you are right in your opinion of Sissoko despite the Manager literally saying what a few of us have been saying for the last 999 pages of this thread, there really is nothing else to discuss. Of course he doesn't really think Sissoko is doing a decent job, how could anyone possibly assume that from Poch's comments? There must be some other explanation!! Poch doesn't go out of his way to make sure all players are feeling fuzzy and warm. He'll quite clearly make pointed comments (e.g. GK needs to show more) when he needs to. If Sissoko needed to be showing more, I don't doubt Poch would use the press to tell him.

This is a bit like what I imagine arguing with Donald Trump must be like. Someone can be confronted with something you'd think would almost be inescapable proof that at the very least, they've dug in a little too hard on one side of the argument, but still no ground is given. There must be another explanation. You must still be right etc.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Fair enough. And if you want to go ahead believing you are right in your opinion of Sissoko despite the Manager literally saying what a few of us have been saying for the last 999 pages of this thread, there really is nothing else to discuss. Of course he doesn't really think Sissoko is doing a decent job, how could anyone possibly assume that from Poch's comments? There must be some other explanation!! Poch doesn't go out of his way to make sure all players are feeling fuzzy and warm. He'll quite clearly make pointed comments (e.g. GK needs to show more) when he needs to. If Sissoko needed to be showing more, I don't doubt Poch would use the press to tell him.
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Maybe Poch knows Sissoko is already at the upper limit of his ability. In that case, publicly saying we need better from him will only demoralise him.

On the others hand, publicly saying how great he is would go a long way to negating the fact that everyone's laughing at him and possibly even quiet a few of the giggles.

BrainOfLevy said:
This is a bit like what I imagine arguing with Donald Trump must be like. Someone can be confronted with something you'd think would almost be inescapable proof that at the very least, they've dug in a little too hard on one side of the argument, but still no ground is given. There must be another explanation. You must still be right etc.
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I've been on your side of the argument with a number of Spurs players in my time. Carrick, Jenas and Bale immediately spring to mind.

There's a clear difference though, between supporting a talented player in a rough patch and laughing at someone who does something comically inept most matches and has got to the back end of his career having looked talented for all of about 3 games.
 
scaramanga said:
Yes I do. Poch very clearly goes out of his way to ensure all the players are loved and have warm, fuzzy feelings about the team. Rightly so too - a strong team spirit is vital to overachieving like we are.

Poch is perfectly capable of reading the press and social media and seeing what the world thinks of Sissoko. It's absolutely his job to counter that whether he believes it or not.
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In addition makes him seem an asset on the market and not a liability if he is to be sold. Imagine his market value if he aired scaras views
 
scaramanga said:
I agree, I just don't think we'll force him out - it will have to be mutual.

That's the downside of paying over the odds (not something we do often, fortunately). If he decides he doesn't want to go, he can sit and earn more with us that anywhere else.
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Inflation in transfer fees and wages could be our saviour here. Many of his possible destinations have players on more than he is meant to be on.
 
milo said:
Inflation in transfer fees and wages could be our saviour here. Many of his possible destinations have players on more than he is meant to be on.
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There are teams like west ham that would absolutely be happy to pay over that odds for a player,

divert attention of club failure and to fool fans that the board are fully committed.
 
scaramanga said:
Maybe Poch knows Sissoko is already at the upper limit of his ability. In that case, publicly saying we need better from him will only demoralise him.

On the others hand, publicly saying how great he is would go a long way to negating the fact that everyone's laughing at him and possibly even quiet a few of the giggles.


I've been on your side of the argument with a number of Spurs players in my time. Carrick, Jenas and Bale immediately spring to mind.

There's a clear difference though, between supporting a talented player in a rough patch and laughing at someone who does something comically inept most matches and has got to the back end of his career having looked talented for all of about 3 games.
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...and there's not one part of you that is willing to concede that based on Poch's comments, maybe Sissoko is doing the job he has been asked to do this season, and doing it to a decent standard? If there isn't, I'm happy to agree to disagree.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
...and there's not one part of you that is willing to concede that based on Poch's comments, maybe Sissoko is doing the job he has been asked to do this season, and doing it to a decent standard? If there isn't, I'm happy to agree to disagree.
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I don't want to.

Doing so would mean that Poch's judgement is way off and would damage our chances of achieving what I hope we can.

If what Poch wants is someone who disconnects our midfield from our front line, who stands in the middle of our passing triangles like a training exercise, then I despair.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
...and there's not one part of you that is willing to concede that based on Poch's comments, maybe Sissoko is doing the job he has been asked to do this season, and doing it to a decent standard? If there isn't, I'm happy to agree to disagree.
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If that job is to demonstrate to Levy we need better, than I accept this.

the manager was happy to let him go if the right offer came in, so his expected standard cant be too high.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/28/moussa-sissoko-spurs-lack-offers-pochettino
 
scaramanga said:
I don't want to.

Doing so would mean that Poch's judgement is way off and would damage our chances of achieving what I hope we can.

If what Poch wants is someone who disconnects our midfield from our front line, who stands in the middle of our passing triangles like a training exercise, then I despair.
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Add Janssen to this and the supposed wingers that have come and gone then I do wonder who does scout and has the final sign off!
 
StephenH said:
Add Janssen to this and the supposed wingers that have come and gone then I do wonder who does scout and has the final sign off!
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It's unrealistic to expect every signing to come good. Viewed as a whole, our record in the market compares favourably against anyone.
 
Legohamster said:
If that job is to demonstrate to Levy we need better, than I accept this.

the manager was happy to let him go if the right offer came in, so his expected standard cant be too high.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/28/moussa-sissoko-spurs-lack-offers-pochettino
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“The player was the first [to be] interested to move or to leave because he wanted to play more in a season that has the World Cup at the end,” Pochettino said. “But I think maybe that possibility didn’t exist and I was more than happy for him to stay and to give him the possibility to play.

Happy for the terrible, awful footballer who stands in the way of passing triangles and can't trap a ball to have the possibility to play. See, the thing with being so entrenched on the other side of the argument is that it presents some awkward logical steps to have to think through, as @scaramanga is showing above. If the argument is that one person says he is a good soldier, and the other disagrees, you can almost leave it up to either side until Poch weighs in on the subject, but no one has to give too much ground either way. But to go so hard on saying he is a terrible footballer, a laughing stock who can't control the ball and can't make a 5 yard pass, who his teammates want to ignore, it means logically you have to think our Manager is a macaron for playing him, or do some mental gymnastics to try and explain that actually, the quotes mean what you said they did all along.

The discussion is stupid when arguing against the idea that Sissoko is this unbelievably bad footballer, because that's not just saying he deserves to be 5th choice, it's saying that he barely deserves to make a living in professional football. It's logically inconsistent, particularly when the Manager who knows way more than any of us states exactly why and what he has contributed this season, and it's still argued against.
 
scaramanga said:
I don't want to.

Doing so would mean that Poch's judgement is way off and would damage our chances of achieving what I hope we can.

If what Poch wants is someone who disconnects our midfield from our front line, who stands in the middle of our passing triangles like a training exercise, then I despair.
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You'd honestly rather keep going on the idea that Poch is way off base here rather than admit he maybe sees something in Sissoko that you don't?
 
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