Moussa Sissoko

[BrainOfLevy]

Its not me that wont let it drop. I genuinely dont give a brick, aside from being misrepresented.




As memory serves Winks wasnt fit. Or, in other words, Poch had little option.



Wanyama was fit. Demebele was expected back. Winks was exepected back. No one anticipated injuries like Alderweireld forcinf DIer into defence.

In other words, Poch had plenty of options at the time, not even including Sissoko.



We have had a fully fit Sissoko for 18 months. He has been poor. We have had a fully fit Dembele, he has been incredible. The comparison just doesnt stand.

Dembele is right out of sorts, and has been all season. He hasnt really been a viable option yet. I would imagine, as he (hopefully) becomes fitter and more reliable, we will see less of Sissoko. And as Wanyama does the same, even less of Sissoko. And this is the point. When everyone is fit and available its entirely possible Sissoko doesnt even make the bench.



We are making the best of a bad hand. No one has said otherwise.

Heres the thing where I get a little confused. Were this conversation all about Aurier, it would make so much sense. Im a big fan of his, I think he has quality and huge potential - but at the same time he has undeniably been erratic to say the least. If there was this rather polarised debate around HIM it would make total sense.

Sissoko? He has been poor since we got him. Yes, he has improved this season, and even then it is completely evident he is no where near the quality of the rest of the squad. He sticks out like a sore thumb despite "doing a job". To point that out is basically a statement of fact and the vehement defense of him is astounding to say the least.

No one is misrepresenting you on this Winks thing. You’re the one that went back to bring up the quotes again. I keep telling you that you have it wrong, and that I apologised immediately for my mistake.

So...Winks wasn’t fully recovered. Dembele hasn’t had a good pre season. And we still loaned out Onamah, BECAUSE WE HAD SISSOKO!!! Poch considered him a viable first team player. You can’t just dismiss him as if we doesn’t count in these considerations.

You’re doing it again. Dembele has been out of sorts, so that’s ok. Sissoko signing for us without a preseason, playing in an Aaron Lennon style role in a possession based side when he’s been more of a central player or wide in a counter attacking side. Not ok. We can make excuses for Dembele, but we can’t for Sissoko? Because why? I get that you’re saying because Dembele has good history with us, but objectively, this season, how is it relevant to whether Sissoko deserves the amount of minutes he’s gotten? I can just as easily make excuses for Sissoko if that is what we are doing.

But this idea that he has been ‘poor’ for 18 months and by far below the quality of the rest of the squad, is just nonsense. He had a TERRIBLE introduction where he played awfully (thinking mainly of the Monaco home game, where he did look like he couldn’t control a football, and where a lot of fans probably made up their minds on him there and then, and refer back to that in their heads to this day). I’m not thinking of inflicting Pep’s first defeat at Emirates Marketing Project, where he started, and we played well. He had a poor start, then couldn’t get back into the side after Christmas, but when he did play, he was decent. (Thinking Burnley and Hull at home, thinking Leceister away at right wing back). But he didn’t have many minutes to called poor.

This season though? Poor? By far below the quality of the rest of the squad? Unable to control the ball because of a terrible touch? Nonsense. Point to the games where this has been true. There won’t be many.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

LOL ok matey, you just crack on.

I think Ill leave you spinning in your chair smashing the keyboard as you type.

I think Sissoko has been poor since we got him. I think, fundamentally, he has not nearly as much quality as the rest of the squad, and I think is shows.

You dont, good for you.

 

[Pirate55]

Give the guy a break. He isn't the most talented footballer but no-one can dispute his effort or energy. Until we sign a better player for that position we will all have to live with Sissy. At least he is a darned sight better than last season!

 

[StephenH]

Did I miss something?

 

[scaramanga]

Give the guy a break. He isn't the most talented footballer but no-one can dispute his effort or energy. Until we sign a better player for that position we will all have to live with Sissy. At least he is a darned sight better than last season!

We're better than that.

Effort and energy without talent is 90s Tottenham, current West Ham or any side managed by Pardew. It's the kind of thing departed pundits like Shearer love to promote but is the polar opposite of what makes a top team over more than a very short period.

 

[Gazza]

Wait who is "sissy"?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We're better than that.

Effort and energy without talent is 90s Tottenham, current West Ham or any side managed by Pardew. It's the kind of thing departed pundits like Shearer love to promote but is the polar opposite of what makes a top team over more than a very short period.

Any ‘top team’ has had their grinders, their workers, their soldiers, the unselfish players that give the ball quickly to those more talented. And in the realms of recognising danger, positioning himself well, not losing his battles, Sissoko is very good. I’d struggle to point to a chance conceded because of him being out of position for example.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Give the guy a break. He isn't the most talented footballer but no-one can dispute his effort or energy. Until we sign a better player for that position we will all have to live with Sissy. At least he is a darned sight better than last season!

I am not even asking for that... Ultimately, for all the self-righteousness and self-importance of some self-proclaimed "experts" on this board. there are only two persons who can give Sissoko a break and are the true judge of his contribution to the team... Poch - his club manager - and Dechamps - his national manager. The fact that they regularly pick him, even when they (especially the latter) have a glut of supposedly more "talented" alternatives, speaks volumes.

All I ask is to cut the bitchiness and just be a bit fair on a player who clearly is trying to do his best for the team which I thought we all supported. And for me it boils down to something very simple: when Sissoko does something good (or excellent) don't try to belittle it with some snide remark, just so that you can feel smug in being able to hold on to your past criticisms of the player.

 

[scaramanga]

Any ‘top team’ has had their grinders, their workers, their soldiers, the unselfish players that give the ball quickly to those more talented. And in the realms of recognising danger, positioning himself well, not losing his battles, Sissoko is very good. I’d struggle to point to a chance conceded because of him being out of position for example.

In those tope teams, the grinders don't stand out as being significantly less comfortable on the ball than the rest of the team - that's one of the things that separates them from us.

With us, it's clear to anyone with even a passing interest in football that one player stands out like a sore thumb in terms of their ability on the ball and off the ball when in attack. The player who keeps having to work to keep his balance, the one who stands in the way whilst the footballers pass around him, the one who passes directly to a running player, etc.

I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a thoroughly likeable chap. But at this point in his career, he's clearly never going to be a player in our mould.

 

[Finney Is Back]

What was this then?

I really shouldn’t use any phrases facetiously with you because they get taken very literally!

If not a pop at the only other incident where I picked up on something you said? Which, in the way it was said, was an entirely valid thing to do.


Again - I think you are wrong. The sort of strengths he does have are those I admire in players. As I have said to you explicitly myself.

Fundamentally though, he just doesnt have ENOUGH to warrant a place in our side. Expecially basic quality/technique. No amount of work rate can make up for that in a team of our level.

It is true that his touch is fudging awful the majority of the time. It is true that slows play down with his bumbling around. It is true players often pass around him to avoid just that. And, yes, it is true he works very hard. And, as Ive also already said, he does have value defensively.

He just doesnt have enough value as a player to warrant his starts.

And yet Poch picks him in every squad and starts him quite often....

 

[Finney Is Back]

LOL ok matey, you just crack on.

I think Ill leave you spinning in your chair smashing the keyboard as you type.

I think Sissoko has been poor since we got him. I think, fundamentally, he has not nearly as much quality as the rest of the squad, and I think is shows.

You dont, good for you.

I think he was poor last season but has been reasonably good this season. I think a fair few people are finding it hard to see past their unconscious bias that was formed during the first impressions that he gave us in 2016.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We're better than that.

Effort and energy without talent is 90s Tottenham, current West Ham or any side managed by Pardew. It's the kind of thing departed pundits like Shearer love to promote but is the polar opposite of what makes a top team over more than a very short period.

Do you think Poch would consistently play a player with no talent?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

In those tope teams, the grinders don't stand out as being significantly less comfortable on the ball than the rest of the team - that's one of the things that separates them from us.

With us, it's clear to anyone with even a passing interest in football that one player stands out like a sore thumb in terms of their ability on the ball and off the ball when in attack. The player who keeps having to work to keep his balance, the one who stands in the way whilst the footballers pass around him, the one who passes directly to a running player, etc.

I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a thoroughly likeable chap. But at this point in his career, he's clearly never going to be a player in our mould.

I’m happy to debate the ‘players pass around him’ thing with you because I’d love to know why you think this is...other players scared of his technique? Managerial instruction? What do you reckon?

As for standing out like a sore thumb, I just don’t agree, not in the sense that all top teams need their soldiers in some capacity. Was Gilberto Silva as good on the ball as Pires? Was Darren Fletcher as good on the ball as Rooney? RVP? Did Jon Obi Mikel ever pass the ball more than ten yards after Mourinho got his claws in to him? He didn’t, but he won titles.

 

[scaramanga]

Do you think Poch would consistently play a player with no talent?

Unless you can demonstrate that good managers never make mistakes, it's a moot point.

 

[scaramanga]

I’m happy to debate the ‘players pass around him’ thing with you because I’d love to know why you think this is...other players scared of his technique? Managerial instruction? What do you reckon?

That wasn't what I meant, but it does happen too.

I was talking about the couple of occasions this season when there's been a little attacking passing triangle going on and he was just blundering around in the middle getting in the way.

I do think players see him as a low value pass when we're moving the ball quickly and that's just sensible. Even his strongest supporters should see he's the weakest on the ball in our team - so will the players.

As for standing out like a sore thumb, I just don’t agree, not in the sense that all top teams need their soldiers in some capacity. Was Gilberto Silva as good on the ball as Pires? Was Darren Fletcher as good on the ball as Rooney? RVP? Did Jon Obi Mikel ever pass the ball more than ten yards after Mourinho got his claws in to him? He didn’t, but he won titles.

I don't think it's fair to compare a pure destroyer to a player who is supposed to be (being generous) a box to box midfielder or an attacking one.

None of the players you listed were creative experts but equally, none of them were clumsy on the ball in the way Sissoko is. Nobody watching their teams for the first time in a while would ask what they were doing in those teams - something that's happened to me twice since Sissoko signed.

 

[Robspur12]

Unless you can demonstrate that good managers never make mistakes, it's a moot point.

Poch comes across as an intelligent coach though, so with all the tactical analysis available why does he make the same mistake over and over again? Do you think he is trying to save face because he signed him in the first place?

 

[scaramanga]

Poch comes across as an intelligent coach though, so with all the tactical analysis available why does he make the same mistake over and over again? Do you think he is trying to save face because he signed him in the first place?

No, I think it's partly down to a lack of options - with Winks, Dembele, Wanyama and Lamela unavailable and Dier on defensive duties then Sissoko as a 6th choice in midfield makes sense.

I also think he's sees some potential there but is probably wrong. Nothing wrong with that - good managers make mistakes all the time. I will be disappointed with Poch if everyone is fit and Sissoko still makes the bench next season.

 

[Robspur12]

No, I think it's partly down to a lack of options - with Winks, Dembele, Wanyama and Lamela unavailable and Dier on defensive duties then Sissoko as a 6th choice in midfield makes sense.

I also think he's sees some potential there but is probably wrong. Nothing wrong with that - good managers make mistakes all the time. I will be disappointed with Poch if everyone is fit and Sissoko still makes the bench next season.

Winks and Dembele are available though and Dier could have played in midfield yet Poch has still selected Sissoko. I suggest, on that basis, he sees Sissoko as more than just 6th choice but rather as a useful tactical option against certain teams.

 

[indospurs]

I think Sissoko has a role to play, as I have said elsewhere, not technically up there with players we are normally associated with, but he is a monster, a physical beast who is willing to play a bit part (especially as it means he is in the window for a france WC call up). He teams up well avec son ami aurier. Keep thinking about the away game at madrid.

Similar to our infamous and much loved ... Didier Zokora ! Plus, he is fassssst, the way he got on to that 1 v 1 against Burnley. Maybe he is no Kane, or Son, or Eriksen in his finishing, but he does a job in a side that is depleted with injuries.

I back him.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Poch comes across as an intelligent coach though, so with all the tactical analysis available why does he make the same mistake over and over again? Do you think he is trying to save face because he signed him in the first place?

Maybe he is simply making the best out of the current situation, he is certainly lacks technique and to me does not seem very skillful but he "does a job". It is not like we are weighed down with amazing midfield talent