Moussa Sissoko

[scaramanga]

Really? I see Dier quite often fail to control the ball with his first touch, I have also seen a number of dodgy passes from him - for example didn't he put Long in one on one with Lloris on Boxing Day?

It's quite easy to pick a player you don't like and find a mistake - even the best make them, especially when picking up the ball from defence is their role.

Just watch the two of them play, the difference is stark. Even if you don't rate Dier, at worst he looks like a professional footballer - the same can't be said for Sissoko.

As @Bullet said, if you think Sissoko's even half as good as Dier then it's no surprise you overrate Sissoko so much.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's quite easy to pick a player you don't like and find a mistake - even the best make them, especially when picking up the ball from defence is their role.

Just watch the two of them play, the difference is stark. Even if you don't rate Dier, at worst he looks like a professional footballer - the same can't be said for Sissoko.

As @Bullet said, if you think Sissoko's even half as good as Dier then it's no surprise you overrate Sissoko so much.

Oh GHod this post is perfect!

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's quite easy to pick a player you don't like and find a mistake - even the best make them, especially when picking up the ball from defence is their role.

Just watch the two of them play, the difference is stark. Even if you don't rate Dier, at worst he looks like a professional footballer - the same can't be said for Sissoko.

As @Bullet said, if you think Sissoko's even half as good as Dier then it's no surprise you overrate Sissoko so much.

I think they are very different players, I just don't think that Dier is any better in terms of his control/technique than Sissoko.

 

[Nifel]

Since Sissoko is as good as Dier, we should sell him to Man U.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think they are very different players, I just don't think that Dier is any better in terms of his control/technique than Sissoko.

Sorry, that last part of your statement above is unbelievable. I have been one of Sissoko’s ‘supporters’ this season in the sense that he and Poch found a way to work together and it has been OK. But Dier is one of the most important players in our squad, reads the game extremely well and can ping passes too. Again, unbelievable...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry, that last part of your statement above is unbelievable. I have been one of Sissoko’s ‘supporters’ this season in the sense that he and Poch found a way to work together and it has been OK. But Dier is one of the most important players in our squad, reads the game extremely well and can ping passes too. Again, unbelievable...

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I haven’t commented on Dier’s importance in the squad, or how well he reads the game. I agree on both counts. My comment is about his control and technique on the ball which, IMO, is no better than Sissoko’s. Had it been Sissoko who did what Dier did against Southampton then he would’ve been absolutely crucified. That doesn’t mean I don’t think that Dier is very valuable to us, I just get that not everybody can have the technique of an Eriksen.

The telling thing for me was that in the Burnley game where Sissoko played well and got a very good assist, the reaction from some on here focused only on the chance that he didn’t finish, whereas Son gets a free pass from many of those same people for missing a far easier chance. It is the same when Sissoko will hit a poor pass in a game and be derided, but Dier can play a perfect through ball to Long and it is brushed over and excused. Sissoko is far from a first choice player for us when all are fit, but he is doing a good job this season as a squad player and hasn’t let us down in any game really. Judging him against that criteria of a squad player Imamhappy with him. IMO his performances have been better than Dembele’s this season and he is in or around our first team on merit - which, I think, is the only way that Poch would have it.

If we sell Sissoko in the summer then I won’t be upset, but we would have to bring in a pretty good player to replace him in the squad, as it would be a big step up for Onomah at the moment and I do not see anyone in the under 23s or 19s yet good enough to step in and do as good a job as Sissoko.

 

[harr1984]

It's quite easy to pick a player you don't like and find a mistake - even the best make them, especially when picking up the ball from defence is their role.

Just watch the two of them play, the difference is stark. Even if you don't rate Dier, at worst he looks like a professional footballer - the same can't be said for Sissoko.

As @Bullet said, if you think Sissoko's even half as good as Dier then it's no surprise you overrate Sissoko so much.

You posting that in the Sissoko thread is ironic...

 

[Robspur12]

You are lacking control but your effort was enough for some.

Yep including Poch but armchair fans must know better.....

 

[billyiddo]

I haven’t commented on Dier’s importance in the squad, or how well he reads the game. I agree on both counts. My comment is about his control and technique on the ball which, IMO, is no better than Sissoko’s. Had it been Sissoko who did what Dier did against Southampton then he would’ve been absolutely crucified. That doesn’t mean I don’t think that Dier is very valuable to us, I just get that not everybody can have the technique of an Eriksen.

The telling thing for me was that in the Burnley game where Sissoko played well and got a very good assist, the reaction from some on here focused only on the chance that he didn’t finish, whereas Son gets a free pass from many of those same people for missing a far easier chance. It is the same when Sissoko will hit a poor pass in a game and be derided, but Dier can play a perfect through ball to Long and it is brushed over and excused. Sissoko is far from a first choice player for us when all are fit, but he is doing a good job this season as a squad player and hasn’t let us down in any game really. Judging him against that criteria of a squad player Imamhappy with him. IMO his performances have been better than Dembele’s this season and he is in or around our first team on merit - which, I think, is the only way that Poch would have it.

If we sell Sissoko in the summer then I won’t be upset, but we would have to bring in a pretty good player to replace him in the squad, as it would be a big step up for Onomah at the moment and I do not see anyone in the under 23s or 19s yet good enough to step in and do as good a job as Sissoko.

Sissoko missed a 1v1 - it was always going to be mentioned in any evaluation of his performance in that game - from what i have read as someone on neither side of this thread is those defending Sissoko have taken exception to the criticism of him missing that 1v1 and have not let it go meaning those defending their criticism appear to be focussing on that - which in most cases isnt a fair reflection as it seems to be reasonably agreed upon that he played well v Burnley.

 

[Robspur12]

Sorry, that last part of your statement above is unbelievable. I have been one of Sissoko’s ‘supporters’ this season in the sense that he and Poch found a way to work together and it has been OK. But Dier is one of the most important players in our squad, reads the game extremely well and can ping passes too. Again, unbelievable...Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-.co.uk mobile app

I like Dier and rate him but he has made several below par performances this season when I have questioned if he is being overrated by Spurs fans. I think currently he is although notwithstanding this he definitely has a higher ceiling than Sissoko.

 

[braineclipse]

I like Dier and rate him but he has made several below par performances this season when I have questioned if he is being overrated by Spurs fans. I think currently he is although notwithstanding this he definitely has a higher ceiling than Sissoko.

To say of Sissoko this season that he's made several below par performances would be charitable in the extreme. Only really true if the golf analogy is being taken literary and Sissoko is being judged by his own handicap.

 

[parklane1]

Yep including Poch but armchair fans must know better.....

Do not doubt it, after all they do win the universe cup on their puters.

 

[thfcsteff]

I like Dier and rate him but he has made several below par performances this season when I have questioned if he is being overrated by Spurs fans. I think currently he is although notwithstanding this he definitely has a higher ceiling than Sissoko.

I think, like several players, he suffered from the injuries and shape around him. I believe he has played three positions this season, most at CB filling in. When played as a holding mid he is excellent IMO. He is, for me, immensely valuable due to his versatility, we have no-one else like him in the squad who remains consistently available.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

I haven’t commented on Dier’s importance in the squad, or how well he reads the game. I agree on both counts. My comment is about his control and technique on the ball which, IMO, is no better than Sissoko’s. Had it been Sissoko who did what Dier did against Southampton then he would’ve been absolutely crucified. That doesn’t mean I don’t think that Dier is very valuable to us, I just get that not everybody can have the technique of an Eriksen.

The telling thing for me was that in the Burnley game where Sissoko played well and got a very good assist, the reaction from some on here focused only on the chance that he didn’t finish, whereas Son gets a free pass from many of those same people for missing a far easier chance. It is the same when Sissoko will hit a poor pass in a game and be derided, but Dier can play a perfect through ball to Long and it is brushed over and excused. Sissoko is far from a first choice player for us when all are fit, but he is doing a good job this season as a squad player and hasn’t let us down in any game really. Judging him against that criteria of a squad player Imamhappy with him. IMO his performances have been better than Dembele’s this season and he is in or around our first team on merit - which, I think, is the only way that Poch would have it.

If we sell Sissoko in the summer then I won’t be upset, but we would have to bring in a pretty good player to replace him in the squad, as it would be a big step up for Onomah at the moment and I do not see anyone in the under 23s or 19s yet good enough to step in and do as good a job as Sissoko.

In fairness I agree with most of what you say here bar the Dier/control thing. So I’ll go with the majority agreement and move forth Sir [emoji6][emoji106]


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[Maltese Falcon]

In those top teams, the grinders don't stand out as being significantly less comfortable on the ball than the rest of the team - that's one of the things that separates them from us.

I have nothing against the guy, he seems like a thoroughly likeable chap. But at this point in his career, he's clearly never going to be a player in our mould.

Two interesting snippets:

1. Your first comment would make perfect sense if Sissoko was a player from my country where our national team is not exactly blessed with abundant international class talent and so any half decent player will be selected. However the same cannot - by any stretch of the imagination - be said of the French national team where even midfielders left out of Deschamps squad would probably walk into the England team. Yet Sissoko is a regular starter??!! Therefore, unless you consider a coach who took his team to the finals of the last European championship to be a dunce, your argument seems to have major gaps in it.

2. What international events over the past two years have taught us - if ever we needed the lesson - is that decision-making by human beings is not rational but instead we rationalise. You have hit the tickle my balls with a feather in saying that the Sissoko critics look at the player as one who will never be a player in "our" mould. And by that I take it to mean a Spursyy type of player. Therefore I guess there is nothing more to discuss because whatever Sissoko will do in a white shirt, he will simply never be a Mackay, a Hoddle, an Ardiles or an Alli - he is not that type of player. Therefore, irrespective how much his hard work, strong running, closing of spaces etc could be effective for the overall team game, his style will never be accepted - and continue to be ridiculed - by those who share this opinion.

 

[Legohamster]

Yep including Poch but armchair fans must know better.....

If Demebele wasnt on deaths door there is no way we would have seen anywhere near as much as we have.

Same if we had got in the CM we clearly wanted to sign in the summer.

 

[scaramanga]

Two interesting snippets:

1. Your first comment would make perfect sense if Sissoko was a player from my country where our national team is not exactly blessed with abundant international class talent and so any half decent player will be selected. However the same cannot - by any stretch of the imagination - be said of the French national team where even midfielders left out of Deschamps squad would probably walk into the England team. Yet Sissoko is a regular starter??!! Therefore, unless you consider a coach who took his team to the finals of the last European championship to be a dunce, your argument seems to have major gaps in it.

2. What international events over the past two years have taught us - if ever we needed the lesson - is that decision-making by human beings is not rational but instead we rationalise. You have hit the tickle my balls with a feather in saying that the Sissoko critics look at the player as one who will never be a player in "our" mould. And by that I take it to mean a Spursyy type of player. Therefore I guess there is nothing more to discuss because whatever Sissoko will do in a white shirt, he will simply never be a Mackay, a Hoddle, an Ardiles or an Alli - he is not that type of player. Therefore, irrespective how much his hard work, strong running, closing of spaces etc could be effective for the overall team game, his style will never be accepted - and continue to be ridiculed - by those who share this opinion.

For point 1 to stand you'll have to demonstrate that no managers ever make mistakes. We both know that even the best do.

Point 2 you're nearly there but not quite. There is certainly an argument to be made for the clogging style of football. Allardyce, Pulis, Hughes and to some extent Mourinho have all had their teams working above the sum of their parts that way.

But all the very top teams, the ones with sustained success are ones that control the game, the ones that keep possession, the ones that can break down stubborn teams and the ones that have more skillful players than the opposition. Sissoko doesn't fit that mould.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

For point 1 to stand you'll have to demonstrate that no managers ever make mistakes. We both know that even the best do.

Point 2 you're nearly there but not quite. There is certainly an argument to be made for the clogging style of football. Allardyce, Pulis, Hughes and to some extent Mourinho have all had their teams working above the sum of their parts that way.

But all the very top teams, the ones with sustained success are ones that control the game, the ones that keep possession, the ones that can break down stubborn teams and the ones that have more skillful players than the opposition. Sissoko doesn't fit that mould.

Consistent, repeated mistakes by two managers that have had demonstrable success?

MF hit the tickle my balls with a feather - it is about personal preference. The idea that no top team has one or even a couple of soldier type players that are less technical is just ridiculous. And again, some of our best performances of the season, with the most possession and most clear cut chances created, have been with Sissoko playing the majority of minutes. Against top teams and against teams that are great defensively, we’ve succeeded against both with him starting. And Poch has tried Dier and Wanyama in central midfield together on occasion, and we beat Arsenal and Man United last season with those two in there.

He suffers from the same problem as Jenas. He’s neither a chest beating hard man tackler that is easy to identify with, nor is he a typical silky dribbler or passer that gets the highlights. He does things that coaches love but that fans struggle with appreciating. But it’s personal preference. And it’s not an isolated mistake for repeated top coaches to repeatedly pick him. That’s a consistent decision based on the fact that he does something they like. If you don’t like it, it’s your preference, but he is definitely additive.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

If Demebele wasnt on deaths door there is no way we would have seen anywhere near as much as we have.

Same if we had got in the CM we clearly wanted to sign in the summer.

If Sissoko had a full pre season last year and was played in a positIon that got the best out of him earlier on he would have had a much better introduction and would have established his importance to us earlier on.

We can do these ‘if’ scenarios for any player.

 

[scaramanga]

Consistent, repeated mistakes by two managers that have had demonstrable success?

MF hit the tickle my balls with a feather - it is about personal preference. The idea that no top team has one or even a couple of soldier type players that are less technical is just ridiculous. And again, some of our best performances of the season, with the most possession and most clear cut chances created, have been with Sissoko playing the majority of minutes. Against top teams and against teams that are great defensively, we’ve succeeded against both with him starting. And Poch has tried Dier and Wanyama in central midfield together on occasion, and we beat Arsenal and Man United last season with those two in there.

He suffers from the same problem as Jenas. He’s neither a chest beating hard man tackler that is easy to identify with, nor is he a typical silky dribbler or passer that gets the highlights. He does things that coaches love but that fans struggle with appreciating. But it’s personal preference. And it’s not an isolated mistake for repeated top coaches to repeatedly pick him. That’s a consistent decision based on the fact that he does something they like. If you don’t like it, it’s your preference, but he is definitely additive.

If you insist on having one, Wanyama is that player - someone who is significantly better both defensively and on the ball. And I don't rate Wanyama on the ball much at all.