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Moussa Sissoko

I also think Sissoko has a part to play at this club. Sometimes you need to play ugly and have a player that sticks in, runs his legs off and has a physical presence. Sissoko does all of this. Yes his control and shooting leaves a lot to be desired but his passing isnt that bad and he does get assists. I back him.
 
scaramanga said:
That wasn't what I meant, but it does happen too.

I was talking about the couple of occasions this season when there's been a little attacking passing triangle going on and he was just blundering around in the middle getting in the way.

I do think players see him as a low value pass when we're moving the ball quickly and that's just sensible. Even his strongest supporters should see he's the weakest on the ball in our team - so will the players.


I don't think it's fair to compare a pure destroyer to a player who is supposed to be (being generous) a box to box midfielder or an attacking one.

None of the players you listed were creative experts but equally, none of them were clumsy on the ball in the way Sissoko is. Nobody watching their teams for the first time in a while would ask what they were doing in those teams - something that's happened to me twice since Sissoko signed.
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I mean...if there’s been a couple of occasions where they’ve tried to pass it around and not include Sissoko, big deal. I agree, he’s a lower value pass option in attacking areas compared to others and the players will agree. I’m sure Poch agrees too, which is why Sissoko often just gives it simple and doesn’t pass it longer than ten yards, ever. He sticks to what he can do.

As for not being the most talented in the squad - of course he isn’t. But he has a role to play, and to ever be able to say Poch is definitively ‘wrong’ about him despite Sissoko playing in I think every single game, and a majority of minutes in some of our best performances of the season, it’s going to take some doing. His passing and his touch really isn’t as bad as has been made out (it can’t be, because he gives it simple and instantly near enough every time, and I don’t think we’ve ever conceded a chance because he’s lost the ball stupidly). He’s very good bordering on excellent at the defensive side of his game - the physicality, the positioning, the reading of danger, the work rate, the commitment to the tactical plan, and it’s something we probably didn’t think we were getting with him when we bought him given we played him in the attacking 4.

I keep asking for examples this season where he’s been poor, where his touch has been way off and where he’s been noticeably lower in performance level than the rest of the team, and I’m not really getting an answer to that. Because he really hasn’t been. Leceister away, the whole team was below par but his passing was very poor and it did stand out. Other than that though, he’s performed well in line with the rest of the team in what he has been asked to do.

And that’s the key point. If you have the right expectations of him, he is doing his job. If you expect him to have a level of technical ability that he is never going to have, you will always be dissapointed. But that is personal preference for you. And as annoying as the point may be, Poch disagrees. The idea that top teams have never had destroyer types, or soldier types is just not true. They are just as needed and have a role to play. Think of him like a faster Ander Herrera, and maybe his value becomes easier to appreciate.
 
They're quite happy to pass to Sissoko when the team is breaking on a team though arent they? Maybe they dont look to Sissoko as much when playing static passes, and why should they when you have Eriksen and Dele? Its called playing to players strength funnily enough and they do pass to him plenty, it is embarrassing how some try to create something that isnt there....
 
the examples requested are in this thread. go back to the match dates and read. If you want more, then go to the match threads. Loads of examples.

When Sissoko played attacking position there were tons of examples of him needing 3-4 touches to bring the ball under control, thus disrupting our attacking flow. Find the match dates and read. Or his inaccurate passing forcing team mates to recycle the ball, also disrupting our attacking flow, giving the opposition time to get back in position. His awareness too has not been the best, passing to players who held their run, giving the ball away.

In the latest match you can look at the movement style of Sissoko and Dembele. Dembele passes and moves, giving the new ball holder options and vacates room for ball and team mates to enter. Sissoko passes and too often just walks looking at the ball/team mate.

His energy is supposed to be his strength. He should move more. pass and run. Not walk round and pointing and only occasionally sprint. he should make more room for the team mates who knows how to control the ball and produce end products.

Lately he has improved. Thankfully! Still not enough to warrant a starting place in the team. Tottenham playing possession and high tempo game needs players comfortable on the ball. Yes, we need players with energy and strength too. Sissoko's weaknesses disrupts Tottenham's playing style, which means Sissoko is not the player with energy and strength that Spurs needs. Sissoko is best without the ball. His style suits clubs playing hoof-ball, not a quick passing game.
 
Nifel said:
In the latest match you can look at the movement style of Sissoko and Dembele. Dembele passes and moves, giving the new ball holder options and vacates room for ball and team mates to enter. Sissoko passes and too often just walks looking at the ball/team mate.
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Seriously? Dembele dribbles and dribbles and then maybe passes. The problem is that - possibly as a result of his fitness issues - his strength on the ball has declined and he is much easier dispossessed. Have you tried to count the number of times Dembele lost the ball in our own half this season, opening us up to a counter. Sissoko can be accused of many things but I can never recollect him ceding possession in our own half. Because he is not flashy, he does not try to do flashy things. He is safe and steady. Of course because flashy is synonymous with being "sexy" (ergo Dembele and his dribbling/movement), it counts against him in the eyes of many fans who then seem to use isolated incidents (his miss against Burnley for example) to take out their inner resentment of him.

"Sissoko's weaknesses disrupts Tottenham's playing style" as much as Wink's weakness in terms of defensive awareness cost us the first goal - and disrupted our game against City. However no-one tried to crucify the lad, because people focus on his strengths. Why is it so difficult for some to do likewise with Sissoko?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I mean...if there’s been a couple of occasions where they’ve tried to pass it around and not include Sissoko, big deal. I agree, he’s a lower value pass option in attacking areas compared to others and the players will agree. I’m sure Poch agrees too, which is why Sissoko often just gives it simple and doesn’t pass it longer than ten yards, ever. He sticks to what he can do.

As for not being the most talented in the squad - of course he isn’t. But he has a role to play, and to ever be able to say Poch is definitively ‘wrong’ about him despite Sissoko playing in I think every single game, and a majority of minutes in some of our best performances of the season, it’s going to take some doing. His passing and his touch really isn’t as bad as has been made out (it can’t be, because he gives it simple and instantly near enough every time, and I don’t think we’ve ever conceded a chance because he’s lost the ball stupidly). He’s very good bordering on excellent at the defensive side of his game - the physicality, the positioning, the reading of danger, the work rate, the commitment to the tactical plan, and it’s something we probably didn’t think we were getting with him when we bought him given we played him in the attacking 4.

I keep asking for examples this season where he’s been poor, where his touch has been way off and where he’s been noticeably lower in performance level than the rest of the team, and I’m not really getting an answer to that. Because he really hasn’t been. Leceister away, the whole team was below par but his passing was very poor and it did stand out. Other than that though, he’s performed well in line with the rest of the team in what he has been asked to do.

And that’s the key point. If you have the right expectations of him, he is doing his job. If you expect him to have a level of technical ability that he is never going to have, you will always be dissapointed. But that is personal preference for you. And as annoying as the point may be, Poch disagrees. The idea that top teams have never had destroyer types, or soldier types is just not true. They are just as needed and have a role to play. Think of him like a faster Ander Herrera, and maybe his value becomes easier to appreciate.
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If Sissoko were even half as good on the ball as Herrera we wouldn't be having this conversation.

As far as aligning my expectations goes, my expectations are that all players in our squad are at or around the quality of a top 4 player or are young and working up to it. He's neither. In fact, just not standing out in our team as significantly worse on the ball than the rest (and I include Lloris) would be good enough.

The argument if being a defensive player just doesn't wash anymore. All players need to be good on the ball - all our defenders are significantly more comfortable on the ball and so is our keeper.
 
Here's to a happy new year Moussa. Thanks to you there is always something to talk about on GG, even if the discussion makes me want to stab my pen in my eye and swirl my brain around. Look forward to 2018.
 
Robspur12 said:
Here's to a happy new year Moussa. Thanks to you there is always something to talk about on GG, even if the discussion makes me want to stab my pen in my eye and swirl my brain around. Look forward to 2018.
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You are lacking control but your effort was enough for some.
 
scaramanga said:
If Sissoko were even half as good on the ball as Herrera we wouldn't be having this conversation.

As far as aligning my expectations goes, my expectations are that all players in our squad are at or around the quality of a top 4 player or are young and working up to it. He's neither. In fact, just not standing out in our team as significantly worse on the ball than the rest (and I include Lloris) would be good enough.

The argument if being a defensive player just doesn't wash anymore. All players need to be good on the ball - all our defenders are significantly more comfortable on the ball and so is our keeper.
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He’s good enough on the ball to do what he needs to do. He gives it simply and near enough instantly or he runs the length of the pitch with it on the occasions the opportunity is open. I’ve never seen Herrera do something Sissoko can’t do and he’s a very similar, solider type enforcer in the team.

This idea that Sissoko can’t control the ball or doesn’t have the touch of a player that we need is just nonsense. He’s perfectly serviceable. Not at the level of our players that play in the front 4 positions, no. But we aren’t asking him to play there. We did at the start of last season, he’s get the ball in the wide right position, and his option was to try and do what Aaron Lennon used to do only he’s not as good a dribbler as a proper winger, so it looked awkward and clumsy. He’d usually put a poor cross into a packed box and that would be the total of his contribution when he first joined. So I get why people have this impression of him that he’s clumsy and poor on the ball. But he barely played in the second half of last season, and this season he’s played a completely different role, and done well. He’s not too poor on the ball to do what we need him to do, and lo and behold he’s played significant minutes in some of our best performances of the season.

This idea that he stands out as significantly worse is nonsense. Not as good technically as some of our best technical players, of course. But as MF says above, why do we not praise his strengths rather than holding what he isn’t, against him? It comes down to your personal preference to want a team of technical players in there, and to ignore what Sissoko can bring. But he definitely is adding value this season.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
He’s good enough on the ball to do what he needs to do. He gives it simply and near enough instantly or he runs the length of the pitch with it on the occasions the opportunity is open. I’ve never seen Herrera do something Sissoko can’t do and he’s a very similar, solider type enforcer in the team.

This idea that Sissoko can’t control the ball or doesn’t have the touch of a player that we need is just nonsense. He’s perfectly serviceable. Not at the level of our players that play in the front 4 positions, no. But we aren’t asking him to play there. We did at the start of last season, he’s get the ball in the wide right position, and his option was to try and do what Aaron Lennon used to do only he’s not as good a dribbler as a proper winger, so it looked awkward and clumsy. He’d usually put a poor cross into a packed box and that would be the total of his contribution when he first joined. So I get why people have this impression of him that he’s clumsy and poor on the ball. But he barely played in the second half of last season, and this season he’s played a completely different role, and done well. He’s not too poor on the ball to do what we need him to do, and lo and behold he’s played significant minutes in some of our best performances of the season.

This idea that he stands out as significantly worse is nonsense. Not as good technically as some of our best technical players, of course. But as MF says above, why do we not praise his strengths rather than holding what he isn’t, against him? It comes down to your personal preference to want a team of technical players in there, and to ignore what Sissoko can bring. But he definitely is adding value this season.
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Of course he's not at talented as our front 3/4, few people are.

I'd settle for as talented as our defenders.
 
scaramanga said:
Of course he's not at talented as our front 3/4, few people are.

I'd settle for as talented as our defenders.
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Do you think his control/technique are noticeably worse than Dier's? I don't see too much difference there really. I think both are valuable members of our squad (Dier the more valuable of the two, but neither get in the team when all are fit).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Do you think his control/technique are noticeably worse than Dier's? I don't see too much difference there really. I think both are valuable members of our squad (Dier the more valuable of the two, but neither get in the team when all are fit).
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Far, far worse. The comparison isn't even there.

There's as much gap between Dier and Sissoko in talent as there is between Sissoko and me.
 
scaramanga said:
Far, far worse. The comparison isn't even there.

There's as much gap between Dier and Sissoko in talent as there is between Sissoko and me.
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Really? I see Dier quite often fail to control the ball with his first touch, I have also seen a number of dodgy passes from him - for example didn't he put Long in one on one with Lloris on Boxing Day?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Do you think his control/technique are noticeably worse than Dier's? I don't see too much difference there really. I think both are valuable members of our squad (Dier the more valuable of the two, but neither get in the team when all are fit).
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Quite right. I think Dier has a better long range pass, but broadly there is not too much difference. Anyone that truly believes Sissoko has a notably worse technique than anyone else in the squad is basing it on last season’s initial performances, not the evidence we have seen this year.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Quite right. I think Dier has a better long range pass, but broadly there is not too much difference. Anyone that truly believes Sissoko has a notably worse technique than anyone else in the squad is basing it on last season’s initial performances, not the evidence we have seen this year.
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I agree completely about the long range passing - Dier's long range passing is one of his impressive attributes I think.
 
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