Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[We are Tottenham]

Put those players in, with this defensive have, and we would be top of the league.

A quick swoop for the two this winter ...150 mill...
after all.....we made em....

 

[Raziel]

Good point. I agree with your point about doing this consistently. I appreciate that it was very easy to get the Liverpool team pumped for the first game as they're playing for their futures, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the Xmas period. It was a real scrappy game and I have to say if this is what it will be like with two teams adopting an agressive press (forget medium or high!) then I think there will be a lot more of these to come. That's why I think it is important to have options such as Dembele who are comfortable in posession despite being rushed by numerous players.

Exactly, this was the game Pool was going to be up for ..

I just think we are a little further down the rebuild road than they are, to me the end of AVB & TS era and first 3 months of Pooch (with us still trying Kaboul/Capoue/Ade) was our bottom out. Not sure Pool has got to that spot yet.

Terrible cliché, but it will be the away games against the mid-bottom tier clubs that will be test for Kopp. Additionally how he handles the media after the inevitable bad run.

Re Dembele, has his flaws, but definitely helps possession and stops the midfield from falling into a constant turnover of ball.

 

[metalgear]

Poch does not have any players of the quality of Bale or Modric at his disposal. Put those two players in this side and we would have a far greater chance of making the top four.

yes i agree.

but the point i was making is that we don't pass the ball that fast or incisively at the moment.

 

[Robspur12]

And even though they have not been trained or properly conditioned they nanaged to outplay us in their first game and olfor a decent amount of time.

I do agree that doing this week in and week out is totally different and I will bet their players are going to be sore for most of he week, and other teams will benefit from it.

What strikes me though is that throughout the game, Liverpool passed with more pace than us, and looked comfortable even technically capable. Downtown training methods and this is an area where I am not convinced about Poch - I recall the bale/modric/vdv years where we passed with more pace and intent.

In my opinion Liverpool "outplayed" us, at times, because they put some powerful units in midfield Milner, Can and also a dedicated defensive midfielder in Lucas. They were very physical in there imo committing a number of fouls which the ref overlooked. We were forced to play Dembele further back than we have been in recent games to cover the missing Dier. Eriksen, Lamela and Njie (or Chadli) with no Son, represent quite a lightweight press in comparison to Liverpool. Had we had Dier fit or possessed a suitable replacement and played Dembele further up field we would have pressed them more effectively higher up the pitch. I said in the omt, I would have played Alderweireld in the defensive midfield role and advanced Dembele, but I can see why Poch wanted to keep the defence the same. It underlines that we still need defensive midfield cover as well a striker. Unfortunately injuries gave Poch a lack of options to change things. We are still a work in progress.

 

[Robspur12]

First off, we had no Dier, Mason or Bentaleb, all of whom would likely get in ahead of Dembele right no exactly because of your above point. Dumbbell had a good game, but it was a Dembele game, which means that he kept possession well but was slower because that is how he plays! Don't forget the importance of Son to our faster performances too, much more speed when he plays. As for Bale/Modric/VdV years, you are talking about two world class players and one excellent player. They don't come easily as we both know, so maybe a harsh comparison?

I think you are being unfair on dembele. As soon as he was on the ball Liverpool players surrounded him. He would beat them and then release the ball. It was not the kind of game where you could easily play Hollywood passes. Lets be clear, several posters on here have a habit of looking back at Harry's time through totally rose tinted specs as if we dominated every game we played. I was at plenty of games where despite having those players mentioned we struggled to break teams down, in particular I remember a game at the lane against Blackburn in his last season. If we were so effective, with the quality of players we had at that time, we should have finished higher up the table. I certainly don't remember giving Chelsea and the financially doped City even arsenal such a pasting under Harry.

 

[Raziel]

In my opinion Liverpool "outplayed" us, at times, because they put some powerful units in midfield Milner, Can and also a dedicated defensive midfielder in Lucas. They were very physical in there imo committing a number of fouls which the ref overlooked. We were forced to play Dembele further back than we have been in recent games to cover the missing Dier. Eriksen, Lamela and Njie (or Chadli) with no Son, represent quite a lightweight press in comparison to Liverpool. Had we had Dier fit or possessed a suitable replacement and played Dembele further up field we would have pressed them more effectively higher up the pitch. I said in the omt, I would have played Alderweireld in the defensive midfield role and advanced Dembele, but I can see why Poch wanted to keep the defence the same. It underlines that we still need defensive midfield cover as well a striker. Unfortunately injuries gave Poch a lack of options to change things. We are still a work in progress.

Tactically it was interesting that Milner specifically seemed to have orders to fudge up Rose at every opportunity. (does that mean Klopp saw Rose as one of our key threats?)

 

[Finney Is Back]

And even though they have not been trained or properly conditioned they nanaged to outplay us in their first game and olfor a decent amount of time.

I do agree that doing this week in and week out is totally different and I will bet their players are going to be sore for most of he week, and other teams will benefit from it.

What strikes me though is that throughout the game, Liverpool passed with more pace than us, and looked comfortable even technically capable. Downtown training methods and this is an area where I am not convinced about Poch - I recall the bale/modric/vdv years where we passed with more pace and intent.

I disagree with you here. I think that Liverpool swarmed all over us for the first 10 to 15 minutes, pressing very high and unsettling us. However after getting through that initial period (during which I think Liverpool only had one chance?) we were on top. I thought for the remainder of the first half we were the team creating the chances and looking more likely to score. I thought that in the second half Liverpool then looked to play more on the counter attack - hence passing with more pace. I really don't remember ever feeling threatened by them in the whole game however. I don't remember them getting beyond our fullbacks, getting in behind us or even having good possession in and around our area.

 

[Finney Is Back]

yeah but if they had a half decent striker and not a donkey up front then they would also have been much more threatening.

I'm not sure it would've made much difference to be honest. I thought their centre forward looked horribly isolated with Liverpool's two supporting wide forwards being anonymous (Coutinho especially so).

 

[milo]

yes i agree.

but the point i was making is that we don't pass the ball that fast or incisively at the moment.

We have been without Mason for most games this season. Dier and Alli aren't bad passers but Mason has been a loss.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

We have been without Mason for most games this season. Dier and Alli aren't bad passers but Mason has been a loss.

And also the fact that he swarms players as well. There won't be many teams that are showing the amount of energy that Liverpool did. What was evident for me was that Poch obviously went nuts at HT, as we came out looking completely different and more energised. We just played one of our rivals with Mason, Son and Dier all missing one of whom has played every match and looked bloody good, and the other two who have both put in really good performances. Liverpool were missing one of Benteke or Ings, and Henderson.

I think the team will have learned a lot from Saturday especially players like N'Jie and Delle. Awful watching, but at break neck speed and, in my mind at least, has proven that we need players like Dembele.

 

[milo]

And also the fact that he swarms players as well. There won't be many teams that are showing the amount of energy that Liverpool did. What was evident for me was that Poch obviously went nuts at HT, as we came out looking completely different and more energised. We just played one of our rivals with Mason, Son and Dier all missing one of whom has played every match and looked bloody good, and the other two who have both put in really good performances. Liverpool were missing one of Benteke or Ings, and Henderson.

I think the team will have learned a lot from Saturday especially players like N'Jie and Delle. Awful watching, but at break neck speed and, in my mind at least, has proven that we need players like Dembele.

I agree.

For all of the disappointment on Saturday, Kane, Alli had good chances to score denied and N'Jie came very close twice. Liverpool on the other hand did not create as much and were very lucky to finish the game with 11 players.

 

[thfcsteff]

yes i agree.

but the point i was making is that we don't pass the ball that fast or incisively at the moment.

This is simply not true when Poch has his best team on the pitch. On Saturday you saw the best and the worst of Dembele in this regard, and further to your point, saw why he will not ever be in our first 11 consistently - he slows things down by NOT passing quickly enough. When a Dier or Son or even Mason/Bentaleb are playing, the passing is MUCH quicker and we move the ball forwards much quicker...

 

[thfcsteff]

Tactically it was interesting that Milner specifically seemed to have orders to fudge up Rose at every opportunity. (does that mean Klopp saw Rose as one of our key threats?)

I wonder if Klopp had accounted for Rose starting? I think it's clear Rose was in because Poch wanted to keep Liverpool honest by having our FBs really push on as much as possible and press them back (plus Davies had played midweek) BUT I think the simple truth of that continued clash is that Milner simply couldn't compete with Rose and as such, took the dark route whenever possible. Milner should've been off for the last 20-25 minutes of the game as we'd both agree.

On a general point, I think it's weird to see some negativity in this thread with regards to the performance. Liverpool, for their huff in that first 20, then became ordinary. Tactically astute and focussed but ordinary. We should've won. No doubt. But our development is really strong, and watching a changed defensive unit (I include Dier as pat of that overall shape) keep another clean sheet was very very satisfying. The growth of Verts and Alderweireld as a partnership is incredible, really great, and the knowledge that an injury to one could see Dier drop right in effortlessly is encouraging. Imagine when Poch has his squad exactly where he wants it...I suspect he wanted Pritchard in this set-up too but injury has robbed him. I think thee are exciting times!

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I wonder if Klopp had accounted for Rose starting? I think it's clear Rose was in because Poch wanted to keep Liverpool honest by having our FBs really push on as much as possible and press them back (plus Davies had played midweek) BUT I think the simple truth of that continued clash is that Milner simply couldn't compete with Rose and as such, took the dark route whenever possible. Milner should've been off for the last 20-25 minutes of the game as we'd both agree.

On a general point, I think it's weird to see some negativity in this thread with regards to the performance. Liverpool, for their huff in that first 20, then became ordinary. Tactically astute and focussed but ordinary. We should've won. No doubt. But our development is really strong, and watching a changed defensive unit (I include Dier as pat of that overall shape) keep another clean sheet was very very satisfying. The growth of Verts and Alderweireld as a partnership is incredible, really great, and the knowledge that an injury to one could see Dier drop right in effortlessly is encouraging. Imagine when Poch has his squad exactly where he wants it...I suspect he wanted Pritchard in this set-up too but injury has robbed him. I think thee are exciting times!

Couldn't agree more!

 

[alekaras]

This has nothing to do with tactics or formations or anything of the sort, but as I was watching the game progress, I never felt for a moment they would score and was sure we would. Can't say I've had this much confidence in the team in a long while.

 

[parklane1]

I wonder if Klopp had accounted for Rose starting? I think it's clear Rose was in because Poch wanted to keep Liverpool honest by having our FBs really push on as much as possible and press them back (plus Davies had played midweek) BUT I think the simple truth of that continued clash is that Milner simply couldn't compete with Rose and as such, took the dark route whenever possible. Milner should've been off for the last 20-25 minutes of the game as we'd both agree.

On a general point, I think it's weird to see some negativity in this thread with regards to the performance. Liverpool, for their huff in that first 20, then became ordinary. Tactically astute and focussed but ordinary. We should've won. No doubt. But our development is really strong, and watching a changed defensive unit (I include Dier as pat of that overall shape) keep another clean sheet was very very satisfying. The growth of Verts and Alderweireld as a partnership is incredible, really great, and the knowledge that an injury to one could see Dier drop right in effortlessly is encouraging. Imagine when Poch has his squad exactly where he wants it...I suspect he wanted Pritchard in this set-up too but injury has robbed him. I think thee are exciting times!

Amen brother. Over the years I have seen many false moons with Spurs but I honestly think that as long as we stick with Poch and his ideas we are on our way to good times.

 

[StephenH]

Amen brother. Over the years I have seen many false moons with Spurs but I honestly think that as long as we stick with Poch and his ideas we are on our way to good times.

Let's be honest Spurs have tried everything else.

Our biggest problem is the fans and thier lack of patience.

 

[parklane1]

Let's be honest Spurs have tried everything else.

Our biggest problem is the fans and thier lack of patience.

"But I want it now" and if I do not get in I will scream and scream.

 

[indianspur]

Let's be honest Spurs have tried everything else.

Our biggest problem is the fans and thier lack of patience.

 

[Raziel]

I wonder if Klopp had accounted for Rose starting? I think it's clear Rose was in because Poch wanted to keep Liverpool honest by having our FBs really push on as much as possible and press them back (plus Davies had played midweek) BUT I think the simple truth of that continued clash is that Milner simply couldn't compete with Rose and as such, took the dark route whenever possible. Milner should've been off for the last 20-25 minutes of the game as we'd both agree.

On a general point, I think it's weird to see some negativity in this thread with regards to the performance. Liverpool, for their huff in that first 20, then became ordinary. Tactically astute and focussed but ordinary. We should've won. No doubt. But our development is really strong, and watching a changed defensive unit (I include Dier as pat of that overall shape) keep another clean sheet was very very satisfying. The growth of Verts and Alderweireld as a partnership is incredible, really great, and the knowledge that an injury to one could see Dier drop right in effortlessly is encouraging. Imagine when Poch has his squad exactly where he wants it...I suspect he wanted Pritchard in this set-up too but injury has robbed him. I think thee are exciting times!

Agree with you re Rose, to me it's a good reflection on our setup.

Also agree re the negativity, to me, that was exactly the type of game two years ago we would have lost, when you add the loss of Dier, Mason, Bentaleb, & Chadli 11 minutes into game, actually a totally acceptable result, with a slightly better performance than the point gained.