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I’m
spurspinter1 said:
So with apparently nonsensical tactics we've made it to two finals, it's a well trodden path conversationally that I'm respectfully just not going to entertain. The desperate desire to make out that Southgate is some PE teacher who has stumbled in to a big job somehow speaks volumes of those who want to push that notion.

Poor team selection is always easy in hindsight but hang ups such as Trippier starting whilst he was actually doing well only proves the close minded ness of certain people who only see what makes them out to be right despite what's actually happening. If anything, starting Kane is the most pertinent example of poor team selection. You talk about poor team selection but overlook use of subs have got us through games or got us back in them, yesterday before the sub we created nothing, we scored and looked better not long after the sub.

Bedford gave a list of players whose reputation has improved which I could elaborate on and we made it to our first overseas final and consecutive final for the first time ever. The squad / set up can hold their heads up high collectively even if snipey fans want to denigrate that achievement.
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Trippier getting pelters was odd at he did what he could
He ain’t a left back but no one can argue he wasn’t available to do what was needed at that point
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m

Trippier getting pelters was odd at he did what he could
He ain’t a left back but no one can argue he wasn’t available to do what was needed at that point
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Collateral damage of the decision, not a reflection on him per say, playing a RB at LB, silly decision to make regardless of the fact he did ok, we severely lacked balance down th eleft all tournament.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Collateral damage I think from playing a RB at LB, silly decision to make regardless of the fact he did ok, we severely lacked balance down th eleft all tournament.
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Shaw had a massive impact in the first half yesterday. Shows what was missing earlier in the tournament.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1812596558518792306

Wow I missed this last night, very negative.

Also did anyone see Kane having a long convo with Bellingham when he was on the floor, felt like he was telling him this will be his team soon and almost passing the baton. Right after Bellingham got up then went round and starting consoling all the team in turn. Would love to know what they discussed.
 
spurspinter1 said:
So with apparently nonsensical tactics we've made it to two finals, it's a well trodden path conversationally that I'm respectfully just not going to entertain. The desperate desire to make out that Southgate is some PE teacher who has stumbled in to a big job somehow speaks volumes of those who want to push that notion.

Poor team selection is always easy in hindsight but hang ups such as Trippier starting whilst he was actually doing well only proves the close minded ness of certain people who only see what makes them out to be right despite what's actually happening. If anything, starting Kane is the most pertinent example of poor team selection. You talk about poor team selection but overlook use of subs have got us through games or got us back in them, yesterday before the sub we created nothing, we scored and looked better not long after the sub.

Bedford gave a list of players whose reputation has improved which I could elaborate on and we made it to our first overseas final and consecutive final for the first time ever. The squad / set up can hold their heads up high collectively even if snipey fans want to denigrate that achievement.
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Yet the guy that made it to two finals on merit (according to you), is a guy that 0% of fans in any top 4 team (go look up United's fans reaction to him being linked, and you know what ours would be) in any major league would want as a manager? that says way more than my opinion

I don't think England has a bad squad, and Bedford's list is 2 players at par, 3 improved, hardly glowing review. I actually think the thing that has been the difference for England in this generation vs previous is the bench, I just think tactically, intent and player selection is what holds back.

I'm not picking on the players (even the ones I don't rate), I'm picking on the manager who in your opinion is good enough,. It's quite funny as a Spurs fan, because the next question is for England is being also ran good enough ..
 
Raziel said:
Yet the guy that made it to two finals on merit (according to you), is a guy that 0% of fans in any top 4 team (go look up United's fans reaction to him being linked, and you know what ours would be) in any major league would want as a manager? that says way more than my opinion

I don't think England has a bad squad, and Bedford's list is 2 players at par, 3 improved, hardly glowing review. I actually think the thing that has been the difference for England in this generation vs previous is the bench, I just think tactically, intent and player selection is what holds back.

I'm not picking on the players (even the ones I don't rate), I'm picking on the manager who in your opinion is good enough,. It's quite funny as a Spurs fan, because the next question is for England is being also ran good enough ..
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You've put a fair few words / thoughts in my mouth there but okay.

You're basing your "facts" on are what some fans from clubs with huge fan bases reckon and which players have supposedly improved their reputation according to you (a list that suggests you haven't been watching the games), I'm basing my opinions on what's actually factually happened in reality.

Gareth Southgate is good enough to have gotten us to two consecutive finals, whatever negative embellishments nomarks on the internet want to place on top sure as fudge don't change the reality of it.

If you're one of the many who want to act like Southgate has tinkled on their chips then we either lost it because he is useless, or we win it despite him. Preset options to confirm bias rather than feeling any holistic recognition of the progress we've made along with the foundations laid for the future.

I do agree that we have a much improved bench and the use of it was good throughout. My main bugbear was starting with Kane, I'm not out here pretending I agreed with every decision Southgate made.

What holds us back is that there's a lot of very good teams, it's never easy to win tournaments, that's kind of the point. It still feels like we're in a good position moving forwards as there's plenty of talent. But like with Henderson, sometimes it's best move past experience and look at what the player is contributing. Maino might be a flash in the pan but he got MOM in an FA cup final against City, done more in his first final at 19 then Kane has managed in all total.

Edit - If it sounds like I'm laying in to Kane, it's not his fault he wasn't fully fit and he doesn't pick himself. The system with Foden and Bellingham doesn't suit him at this stage, and as I think you may have said, long term it may just be one or the other (in terms of Foden / Bellingham). Mistakes were made elsewhere on the pitch and usually we're tight in defense but we were getting played through early second half

I love Kane and he's an incredible player, but he looked like a Bosnian journeyman in this tournament. I don't love the spectral version of Kane that appears in finals. Trippier gets absolutely shredded despite actually playing well but making the cardinal sin of not being left footed?
 
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spurspinter1 said:
You've put a fair few words / thoughts in my mouth there but okay.

You're basing your "facts" on are what some fans from clubs with huge fan bases reckon and which players have supposedly improved their reputation according to you (a list that suggests you haven't been watching the games), I'm basing my opinions on what's actually factually happened in reality.

Gareth Southgate is good enough to have gotten us to two consecutive finals, whatever negative embellishments nomarks on the internet want to place on top sure as fudge don't change the reality of it.

If you're one of the many who want to act like Southgate has tinkled on their chips then we either lost it because he is useless, or we win it despite him. Preset options to confirm bias rather than feeling any holistic recognition of the progress we've made along with the foundations laid for the future.

I do agree that we have a much improved bench and the use of it was good throughout. My main bugbear was starting with Kane, I'm not out here pretending I agreed with every decision Southgate made.

What holds us back is that there's a lot of very good teams, it's never easy to win tournaments, that's kind of the point. It still feels like we're in a good position moving forwards as there's plenty of talent. But like with Henderson, sometimes it's best move past experience and look at what the player is contributing. Maino might be a flash in the pan but he got MOM in an FA cup final against City, done more in his first final at 19 then Kane has managed in all total.

Edit - If it sounds like I'm laying in to Kane, it's not his fault he wasn't fully fit and he doesn't pick himself. The system with Foden and Bellingham doesn't suit him at this stage, and as I think you may have said, long term it may just be one or the other (in terms of Foden / Bellingham). Mistakes were made elsewhere on the pitch and usually we're tight in defense but we were getting played through early second half

I love Kane and he's an incredible player, but he looked like a Bosnian journeyman in this tournament. I don't love the spectral version of Kane that appears in finals. Trippier gets absolutely shredded despite actually playing well but making the cardinal sin of not being left footed?
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I can't agree with your opinion that Trippier played well, he was probably the best defensive player for our opponents, he continually slow play down and played mostly backward passes even when he had space to advance, his lack of pace was worrying to the team and himself, he may have been playing to instruction and the blame for this is the manager and his selection, Davies and Royal have played far better in games this season and been criticised heavily.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I can't agree with your opinion that Trippier played well, he was probably the best defensive player for our opponents, he continually slow play down and played mostly backward passes even when he had space to advance, his lack of pace was worrying to the team and himself, he may have been playing to instruction and the blame for this is the manager and his selection, Davies and Royal have played far better in games this season and been criticised heavily.
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Trippier played to the limits of his ability in an unfamiliar position
He did what he could but that’s all he could do
But the fact he was the option shows how the squad selection was wrong
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I can't agree with your opinion that Trippier played well, he was probably the best defensive player for our opponents, he continually slow play down and played mostly backward passes even when he had space to advance, his lack of pace was worrying to the team and himself, he may have been playing to instruction and the blame for this is the manager and his selection, Davies and Royal have played far better in games this season and been criticised heavily.
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As Bedford says, within his confines he did absolutely fine (imo). Take the game with the back 3 and Saka playing as a sort of RWB, we didn't need blistering pace on the other side. Better to just keep it tight for the good of the team, even if it didn't play in to his absolute number 1 strength.

I appreciate that fans would rather have a Roberto Carlos bombing it down the flank whipping dangerous balls / cutbacks with his left foot but Tripper isn't that guy. However he isn't a complete liability like Chillwell so we looked solid on our left. Of course there were games we as a unit didn't look cohesive and people weren't passing well and Trippier was no exception but it wasn't like he was getting done time and time again on that side.

There's just something a tad rudimentary about being fixated on players only playing on one flank or one position, different situation but it harks back to the "he plays on the left" re Bale who quickly stopped singing that song once Bale became one of the best in that position.

Another edit - I feel like people may say "Why are you protecting Trippier but slagging off Kane", the easy answer is that Trippier played to his potential. You need squad players who come in and do a job in a tournament, a John O'Shea type but you then need your star players to actually play like stars.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Do you men’s the final or the competition?
England won’t do anything until we get in a coach who can do just that..l coach a team into a unit
Kane didn’t create anything … that’s the job of the 10s that played… they created nothing
He didn’t put pressure on defenders because the king ball was an easy fix for them. It’s a daft tactic
What we saw in this competition is that a half fit Kane can still score if got gave him a chance.
Watkins has one goal in international competitive football. Toney has none. Both have scored in friendlies though
The options are slim
The supply line to them ever slimmer
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Kane IS a number 9 and a number 10 rolled into one. That’s why people rate him so highly and what makes him so good. He is a great finisher with an unbelievable range of passing, where was that passing in this tournament? He wasn’t in the box to put chances away, he didn’t create anything of note when he did drop deep, he didn’t put CB’s under any pressure.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Sorry but your wrong
Kane scored loads in big games
You mean cup finals… that’s fair
He hasn’t been fit in many of them and that’s an issue he needs to address
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I mean do or die, win or go home games. I’d genuinely love to know how many goals Kane has scored in knockout games that weren’t from the penalty spot. He doesn’t influence the game in way shape or form. It’s not even debatable that he shrinks on the big stage.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
Kane IS a number 9 and a number 10 rolled into one. That’s why people rate him so highly and what makes him so good. He is a great finisher with an unbelievable range of passing, where was that passing in this tournament? He wasn’t in the box to put chances away, he didn’t create anything of note when he did drop deep, he didn’t put CB’s under any pressure.
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His passing was great when he had it
But that wasn’t much
He can’t pass the ball and then run into the box though .. he ain’t super human
England didn’t create chances
The goals scored were from half chances to moments
Seriously well worth looking at the data for once as it does highlight England created fudge all for anyone
 
Jurgen the German said:
I mean do or die, win or go home games. I’d genuinely love to know how many goals Kane has scored in knockout games that weren’t from the penalty spot. He doesn’t influence the game in way shape or form. It’s not even debatable that he shrinks on the big stage.
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It’s an opinion
If he shrinks as you say then his record for scoring in those games should be deleted… if you mean cup finals, then that’s a different conversation
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s an opinion
If he shrinks as you say then his record for scoring in those games should be deleted… if you mean cup finals, then that’s a different conversation
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Quarter finals, semis and finals, if it’s not a penalty he rarely scores. It’s not even the fact that he doesn’t score he’s just non-existent.
 
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