Ingerlund

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I will get shot here, but I don't think he did bad at all, he did HIS JOB which is always the same, the issue comes where he is seemingly taking the blame for others not doing theirs and the fact that we played such a negative brand of football. If we played 20 yards further up the pitch and he did exactly the same work, as he does with Arsenal, people would not have said a thing IMO. I think he was actually fine.

On the subject, I thought Stones and Pickford were two of our best to come out of the tournament, I have actually grown to be a fan pf Pickford, I think he is very handy

I think you're right about Rice's position, as a team we fell back to often and did not use or create space, this could be the reason, I did not think he looked as assured as he has with Woolwich. I agree about the centre of our defence all looked reasonably solid.

 

[Dicko]

I will get shot here, but I don't think he did bad at all, he did HIS JOB which is always the same, the issue comes where he is seemingly taking the blame for others not doing theirs and the fact that we played such a negative brand of football. If we played 20 yards further up the pitch and he did exactly the same work, as he does with Arsenal, people would not have said a thing IMO. I think he was actually fine.

On the subject, I thought Stones and Pickford were two of our best to come out of the tournament, I have actually grown to be a fan pf Pickford, I think he is very handy

Yeah the awful football and others not showing for the ball etc. has to be taken into account but I just thought he was a bit slow and sluggish controlling the ball and played overly safe and backwards this tournament, more than was necessary.

Guehi also had a decent tournament, linked with Liverpool today.

I dont rate Pickford as much as some. I can't deny his important saves (which is obviously the most vital part of his job), But I do feel he is all over the place sometimes when trying to play out from the back and does little to calm the nerves lol. Also when he has no options (not his fault) and goes long a lot of his kicks go nowhere near the intended target

 

[Grays_1890]

I think you're right about Rice's position, as a team we fell back to often and did not use or create space, this could be the reason, I did not think he looked as assured as he has with Woolwich. I agree about the centre of our defence all looked reasonably solid.

I think playing as low as we did impacted most of what we did because even Rice is a better player if the teams more positive, he was a threat in the area and around the box when we were, at the limited times, on the front foot.

 

[Raziel]

For me

- Clear both Kane and Bellingham were knackered/carrying knocks
- Regardless, the team has no fudging real plan to get the ball to them in a part of the field they can be effective

The big issue yesterday and most of the tournament was

- Tempo, and willingness to try to dominate opposition, this isn't Kane's problem, it's midfield and how the ball comes out back
- Lack of a creative player (Maddison type, if not him) to change the play

Observations

- Saka for Arsenal and for England are two different things, the amount of attacks that die with him is off the scale, his constant cut back, dally on the ball then either lose it or pass it to someone with 5 players around them. He should have been first man off yesterday. Not to mention the constant faking for a foul.
- Foden was as bad as Kane this tournament in terms of product vs. player expectations
- Mainoo may be a player in the future but was out of his depth yesterday
- We put a more "mobile" forward on and the idea was punt the ball long?
- Southgate needed to bring on multiple subs to change the game, the 1 at a time allowed Spain to easily adjust

Reality is Stones, Pickford, Shaw (unreliable due to injuries) were the only players that had a decent tournament
Watkins, Palmer, Gordon probably all deserve to continue being assessed.

What should England do?
- Get a new manager, this ended exactly as predicted, passive, too slow, too defensive England goes out by 1 goal margin, literally could have bet the house on it, only surprise is it didn't happen two rounds earlier (would have if England was on other side of draw)
- Build the WC squad around Kane and Bellingham, after the WC, you can do the post Kane thing after WC, there simply isn't another striker in country close.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

For me

- Clear both Kane and Bellingham were knackered/carrying knocks
- Regardless, the team has no fudging real plan to get the ball to them in a part of the field they can be effective

The big issue yesterday and most of the tournament was

- Tempo, and willingness to try to dominate opposition, this isn't Kane's problem, it's midfield and how the ball comes out back
- Lack of a creative player (Maddison type, if not him) to change the play

Observations

- Saka for Arsenal and for England are two different things, the amount of attacks that die with him is off the scale, his constant cut back, dally on the ball then either lose it or pass it to someone with 5 players around them. He should have been first man off yesterday. Not to mention the constant faking for a foul.
- Foden was as bad as Kane this tournament in terms of product vs. player expectations
- Mainoo may be a player in the future but was out of his depth yesterday
- We put a more "mobile" forward on and the idea was punt the ball long?
- Southgate needed to bring on multiple subs to change the game, the 1 at a time allowed Spain to easily adjust

Reality is Stones, Pickford, Shaw (unreliable due to injuries) were the only players that had a decent tournament
Watkins, Palmer, Gordon probably all deserve to continue being assessed.

What should England do?
- Get a new manager, this ended exactly as predicted, passive, too slow, too defensive England goes out by 1 goal margin, literally could have bet the house on it, only surprise is it didn't happen two rounds earlier (would have if England was on other side of draw)
- Build the WC squad around Kane and Bellingham, after the WC, you can do the post Kane thing after WC, there simply isn't another striker in country close.

Agree with most of your observations. I don't know how fit Kane was for this tournament, he didnt look that annoyed to be subbed in the games he was pulled off which is not like him. I was surprised to hear how pundits thought Saka was playing well in games as I thought he slowed the game too often, particularly when he had drawn 3 players to him, a quick positive pass was needed not backwards, but that could be applied to many of the team.

 

[Jurgen the German]

As the game evolves it might not need to be any of them, we might get a manager who has an idea which means playing Palmer there and having Bellingham ghost in like he does for Real. If it mean it also bought in the other attacking talent around them like Foden etc then its already a better set up and attacking threat to what we saw in this tournament.

I love Kane but his lack of mobility yesterday was the worse I have seen, was genuinely shocking and maybe it was injury or not but its likely now time to think of succession plans.

I felt sorry for Foden, genuinely one of the best young talents we have in the game and the art to him is getting him in areas in and around the opposition box, I am 99.9% sure he likely had more touches round ours than theirs. Having to pick the ball up 30 yards from his own box all game, its just not going to work. I actually rate Saka and the same issues applied for him, playing almost secondary RB with walker, its just never going to hurt the opposition

He didn’t even do the basics in this tournament like holding the ball up well, he didn’t make life difficult for defenders, he barely won a header in the tournament. The game just passes him by. I do agree with the general consensus that there isn’t an alternative that to take his place but he needs to do more and I don’t think he should be an automatic starter anymore.

 

[Raziel]

Agree with most of your observations. I don't know how fit Kane was for this tournament, he didnt look that annoyed to be subbed in the games he was pulled off which is not like him. I was surprised to hear how pundits thought Saka was playing well in games as I thought he slowed the game too often, particularly when he had drawn 3 players to him, a quick positive pass was needed not backwards, but that could be applied to many of the team.

Re Kane, remember he didn't play the full last 3 games of season even with a goal record available (clearly something wrong)

He didn’t even do the basics in this tournament like holding the ball up well, he didn’t make life difficult for defenders, he barely won a header in the tournament. The game just passes him by. I do agree with the general consensus that there isn’t an alternative that to take his place but he needs to do more and I don’t think he should be an automatic starter anymore.

I don't disagree with the observation, disagree with the conclusion

- less than a month before this tournament started he was the best striker in Europe in a struggling side, goals & assists, he didn't become brick overnight.
- Clearly knackered/carrying a knock (see above)
- No one (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) got the ball played to them with space, this is a tactical fudge up of the highest order from Southgate. There was a specific instance yesterday when the ball was played out to Saka, they were 5 Spain players covering that side, the rest were in the middle, Shaw was open on the other side, what did Saka do? turn into the group of Spain players looking for a precision pass. The team has to make space to give these players a chance, you can't receive every ball with you being doubled up.

England did what they have always done, taken players unfit/carrying a knock to a finals and suffering the consequences.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Could be most of them play for a team where the controlling midfield players are overseas players and they look to pass to them in difficult situations, most of our players first instinct is to stop the ball then look up for a pass, no understand where each other should be. You see very few teams where a midfield player calls for the ball from centreback who is 5 yards from them and then immediately return it to them, we do it all the time, that is not being in control its indecisive.

I dont think that’s the issue
It’s a tactical one where we boot it rather than pass it

 

[P.D.]

Spain were really good yesterday, very direct with lots of running and quick passes. Nighmare to play against, makes me more annoyed about 2021 when Italy were really there for the taking. Even if we raised it a level last night no guarantee we would have won.

That said really disappointing how we didn't click in attack at all all tournament but continued to start the same front 4. Unbelievable that Palmer didn't get a start, looked our best player whenever he came on. Think some runners like him and Gordon would have given us a better balance as well and helped Kane. Feels a bit like Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard shoehorning again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re Kane, remember he didn't play the full last 3 games of season even with a goal record available (clearly something wrong)



I don't disagree with the observation, disagree with the conclusion

- less than a month before this tournament started he was the best striker in Europe in a struggling side, goals & assists, he didn't become brick overnight.
- Clearly knackered/carrying a knock (see above)
- No one (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) got the ball played to them with space, this is a tactical fudge up of the highest order from Southgate. There was a specific instance yesterday when the ball was played out to Saka, they were 5 Spain players covering that side, the rest were in the middle, Shaw was open on the other side, what did Saka do? turn into the group of Spain players looking for a precision pass. The team has to make space to give these players a chance, you can't receive every ball with you being doubled up.

England did what they have always done, taken players unfit/carrying a knock to a finals and suffering the consequences.

Saka is very good player
He isn’t an intelligent one
That’s a key trait of a lot of these players
They dint have the match smarts to play different ways

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He didn’t even do the basics in this tournament like holding the ball up well, he didn’t make life difficult for defenders, he barely won a header in the tournament. The game just passes him by. I do agree with the general consensus that there isn’t an alternative that to take his place but he needs to do more and I don’t think he should be an automatic starter anymore.

Winning a header from a keeper boot up field… that’s the sophistication of the football
He didn’t hold it up because a lot of the time it was booted at him rather than passed
When it was given to him centrally he turned into two defenders who cleaned it up

honestly the issue starts way back with how we choose to play

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For me

- Clear both Kane and Bellingham were knackered/carrying knocks
- Regardless, the team has no fudging real plan to get the ball to them in a part of the field they can be effective

The big issue yesterday and most of the tournament was

- Tempo, and willingness to try to dominate opposition, this isn't Kane's problem, it's midfield and how the ball comes out back
- Lack of a creative player (Maddison type, if not him) to change the play

Observations

- Saka for Arsenal and for England are two different things, the amount of attacks that die with him is off the scale, his constant cut back, dally on the ball then either lose it or pass it to someone with 5 players around them. He should have been first man off yesterday. Not to mention the constant faking for a foul.
- Foden was as bad as Kane this tournament in terms of product vs. player expectations
- Mainoo may be a player in the future but was out of his depth yesterday
- We put a more "mobile" forward on and the idea was punt the ball long?
- Southgate needed to bring on multiple subs to change the game, the 1 at a time allowed Spain to easily adjust

Reality is Stones, Pickford, Shaw (unreliable due to injuries) were the only players that had a decent tournament
Watkins, Palmer, Gordon probably all deserve to continue being assessed.

What should England do?
- Get a new manager, this ended exactly as predicted, passive, too slow, too defensive England goes out by 1 goal margin, literally could have bet the house on it, only surprise is it didn't happen two rounds earlier (would have if England was on other side of draw)
- Build the WC squad around Kane and Bellingham, after the WC, you can do the post Kane thing after WC, there simply isn't another striker in country close.

Wow
These are my views exactly
If England want to progress you have to build a team and that doesn’t mean your best players playing

 

[Raziel]

Saka is very good player
He isn’t an intelligent one
That’s a key trait of a lot of these players
They dint have the match smarts to play different ways

That's why you need a plan/instructions/coach

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re Kane, remember he didn't play the full last 3 games of season even with a goal record available (clearly something wrong)



I don't disagree with the observation, disagree with the conclusion

- less than a month before this tournament started he was the best striker in Europe in a struggling side, goals & assists, he didn't become brick overnight.
- Clearly knackered/carrying a knock (see above)
- No one (Kane, Bellingham, Foden) got the ball played to them with space, this is a tactical fudge up of the highest order from Southgate. There was a specific instance yesterday when the ball was played out to Saka, they were 5 Spain players covering that side, the rest were in the middle, Shaw was open on the other side, what did Saka do? turn into the group of Spain players looking for a precision pass. The team has to make space to give these players a chance, you can't receive every ball with you being doubled up.

England did what they have always done, taken players unfit/carrying a knock to a finals and suffering the consequences.

He didn’t become brick overnight but too many times for England and Spurs in big games he doesn’t do anything. I agree he’s one of the best strikers in the world but that’s irrelevant if he’s not offering anything unless it’s a tap in or a penalty.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Winning a header from a keeper boot up field… that’s the sophistication of the football
He didn’t hold it up because a lot of the time it was booted at him rather than passed
When it was given to him centrally he turned into two defenders who cleaned it up

honestly the issue starts way back with how we choose to play

Its amazing how many goals he has scored for England when you consider he's played with so many players who do not appear to want or are intelligent to pass to him, it's been the pattern for a long time.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Reality is Stones, Pickford, Shaw (unreliable due to injuries) were the only players that had a decent tournament
Watkins, Palmer, Gordon probably all deserve to continue being assessed.

I thought Guehi was exceptional. Everyone was on about our crap defence before the tournament, but he quietly locked that position up and turned us into a decent unit.

 

[Robbo]

Spain were really good yesterday, very direct with lots of running and quick passes. Nighmare to play against, makes me more annoyed about 2021 when Italy were really there for the taking. Even if we raised it a level last night no guarantee we would have won.

That said really disappointing how we didn't click in attack at all all tournament but continued to start the same front 4. Unbelievable that Palmer didn't get a start, looked our best player whenever he came on. Think some runners like him and Gordon would have given us a better balance as well and helped Kane. Feels a bit like Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard shoehorning again.

It's baffling that Palmer didn't get more game time. He looked dangerous every time he came on. Did more in his short cameos than Foden all tournament, IMO.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Its amazing how many goals he has scored for England when you consider he's played with so many players who do not appear to want or are intelligent to pass to him, it's been the pattern for a long time.

His epitaph could read - "England's all-time highest goalscorer; and but Sterling".

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Its amazing how many goals he has scored for England when you consider he's played with so many players who do not appear to want or are intelligent to pass to him, it's been the pattern for a long time.

It really is
We have some very good but very greedy players
The shot Kane took that “won” the penalty vs Holland was one that should have been a pass to him. Instead it was saka running sideways desperate to shoot and getting his shot blocked easily
It’s poor and tactically something a good coach would identify

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's baffling that Palmer didn't get more game time. He looked dangerous every time he came on. Did more in his short cameos than Foden all tournament, IMO.

He also isnt greedy
He passes well and moves after passing