Ingerlund

[stratnumberone]

Seeing a few brazilians on Twitter saying about the ref, he is considered one of the worst in their country

Why is he doing a game of that importance then, the bloke was so so bad he made Lee Mason, Jon Moss et al look the finest in their field

Qatari owned PSG will have a good number of representatives should Argentina & France get there (which will clearly be made to happen)

I am not one for conspiracy theories but I can’t help feeling you’ve got something here. The performances of officials in their games and Mbappe and Messi getting away with an awful lot of cheating. I genuinely have no idea what Lionel has got to do to get booked. Possibly kick the ref in the gonads might be enough but it’s doubtful.

 

[braineclipse]

Poch is the prefect fit
Young players who won’t mind his systems and tactics and wont get bored with the same coaches when seeing them less frequently
He will have them all eating out of his hand

Not sure about Pochettino as a national team manager.

Succeeded mostly with a very well drilled team playing a rather specific style. Hard to translate that to national teams with less time on the training ground. Even here he often needed quite a long time to get new players integrated in the system, you have time, but no time to do the work needed.

And he needs players that fit into his system to really thrive. Difficult to do at an international stage.

Not a great record in knockout STAGES. So much about international football is getting through those close knockout fixtures, not sure that's his strength.

Of course he could have sides to him yet to be seen, of course he could succeed. But from what I've seen of him so far he doesn't strike me as a good fit.

Gutted like most fans i guess but in all honesty we are not really good enough as a team to actually win the big trophy. Our central defense is poor ( both Maquire and Stones) are average at best and Shaw at FB is all over the place at times.

We do have some talent in M/F but we never look settled in there with changing it around so often. We ( imo) go overboard about the talented players we do have ( Fodon, Mount, Grealish, Saka, Rice etc) but Sky do not help by bigging them up all the time.

Having watched World Cups since the 60's we do tend to overhype some of our players and it brings false expectations on some of our players.

Very much agreed (seeing it from the outside).

Definitely enough there to challenge and even win it, but you needed more luck than you had. Some really top level talent in that squad, but a bit early for some of them. Of the players at or near their peak years only Kane and Walker are truly elite imo. Even Walker isn't quite what he once was.

Despite that you were the better team on the night against France. That's really impressive. But that's the World Cup. There never was more than a slim chance and it didn't come off.

 

[braineclipse]

I am not one for conspiracy theories but I can’t help feeling you’ve got something here. The performances of officials in their games and Mbappe and Messi getting away with an awful lot of cheating. I genuinely have no idea what Lionel has got to do to get booked. Possibly kick the ref in the gonads might be enough but it’s doubtful.

Messi did get booked in the end against Netherlands. The biggest players getting away with stuff is nothing new.

I think it's just that there are very few very good referees, and it's a very difficult job made even more difficult at the World Cup.

 

[stratnumberone]

Messi did get booked in the end against Netherlands. The biggest players getting away with stuff is nothing new.

I think it's just that there are very few very good referees, and it's a very difficult job made even more difficult at the World Cup.

I agree with all that you say here. However, I think Messi has been getting away with more than anyone I’ve seen before! The media has built this up to be ‘written in the stars’ that Messi wins a WC and it seems like FIFA agrees. The most glaring example in the match in question was his deliberate handball. The referee saw it - he must have, because he gave a free kick; the referee also proved he knew the rules a few minutes prior by booking Romero for deliberate handball. So why no yellow for Messi? Given his miraculous late booking against the Dutch he should be suspended now…

call it sour grapes if you like (and there would certainly be an element of truth in such an accusation), but I’m desperately hoping for a Croatia v Morocco final now.

 

[braineclipse]

I agree with all that you say here. However, I think Messi has been getting away with more than anyone I’ve seen before! The media has built this up to be ‘written in the stars’ that Messi wins a WC and it seems like FIFA agrees. The most glaring example in the match in question was his deliberate handball. The referee saw it - he must have, because he gave a free kick; the referee also proved he knew the rules a few minutes prior by booking Romero for deliberate handball. So why no yellow for Messi? Given his miraculous late booking against the Dutch he should be suspended now…

call it sour grapes if you like (and there would certainly be an element of truth in such an accusation), but I’m desperately hoping for a Croatia v Morocco final now.

He got away with a lot in that game, including the one you point out. I just think the referees are scared of even being put in the position where they may have to send off Messi. Good for him, good for Argentina. Not fair, but the way things often work.

How often have we complained about similar stuff against us in the PL. I think we've also seen Kane get away with quite a bit for us. But Messi is different level for sure.

 

[markysimmo]

Joke of a decision by the FA this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604443148079583232

 

[Yiddo]

They obviously love it when we lose to any decent team we play against.


If you take away the Germany game at the Euro’s (Muller should have scored to equalise) then the rest of the decent teams we have played against we have lost to

Belgium x2 World cup
Croatia World cup
Italy Euro’s
France World cup

If my memory is correct, they are the only decent teams we have played in 2 world cups and a Euro’s and we lost to them all.

 

[markysimmo]

An easy and cheap decision to make by keeping him
Tactically clueless, in game management woeful
But a nice bloke who the players can boss around, er I mean like so keep him for 2 more years

 

[DeanoAustin]

They obviously love it when we lose to any decent team we play against.


If you take away the Germany game at the Euro’s (Muller should have scored to equalise) then the rest of the decent teams we have played against we have lost to

Belgium x2 World cup
Croatia World cup
Italy Euro’s
France World cup

If my memory is correct, they are the only decent teams we have played in 2 world cups and a Euro’s and we lost to them all.

Bit harsh. You could make the argument that the second Belgium game was a glorified friendly and they drew with Italy and Croatia in 90 mins. Fine margins. They also beat Sweden and Denmark under Southgate.

He's gotten to a final, semi-final and quarter final in 3 tournaments. That's better than Bobby Robson who is widely lauded as the best manager since Ramsey. Venables is seen as similarly successful - he got to one semi final on home soil and a lot of that tournament wasn't any more convincing than Southgate's record.

I'm not a massive Southgate fan. I wouldn't like him at our club. But he's done a bloody good job. Not spectacular but better than a lot seem to want to give him credit for. Been England's best manager since Ramsey by any objective measure.

 

[Yiddo]

Bit harsh. You could make the argument that the second Belgium game was a glorified friendly and they drew with Italy and Croatia in 90 mins. Fine margins. They also beat Sweden and Denmark under Southgate.

He's gotten to a final, semi-final and quarter final in 3 tournaments. That's better than Bobby Robson who is widely lauded as the best manager since Ramsey. Venables is seen as similarly successful - he got to one semi final on home soil and a lot of that tournament wasn't any more convincing than Southgate's record.

I'm not a massive Southgate fan. I wouldn't like him at our club. But he's done a bloody good job. Not spectacular but better than a lot seem to want to give him credit for. Been England's best manager since Ramsey by any objective measure.

Have you not seen the run we have had in all of then tournaments before we got to the better teams? We beat everyone we should have beaten, England have always been good at beating the lesser nations, its when ever we play against the best, we fail to win and Southgate is no exception.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Have you not seen the run we have had in all of then tournaments before we got to the better teams? We beat everyone we should have beaten, England have always been good at beating the lesser nations, its when ever we play against the best, we fail to win and Southgate is no exception.

Football isn't like that though. It's not played on paper. You beat Colombia and Sweden, you beat Germany and Denmark, you beat Senegal. That's a decent list of teams and you could have lost any one of those.

Remember Euro 88? Remember Hoddle losing to Romania in 98. Remember Keegan losing to Romania. Sven's penalty failures. Getting thumped by Germany. Not getting out of the group in 2014. Iceland in 2016. Not even qualifying in 1994 or 2008?

England have performed well below where Southgate has them for the last 50 years with the exception of Robson and Venables and neither of them did it as consistently as Southgate is doing.

It's all too easy to criticise anything less than perfection. But it's bloody nigh on impossible to reach perfection particularly for a country that's won one tournament in its entire history.

 

[harr1984]

Have you not seen the run we have had in all of then tournaments before we got to the better teams? We beat everyone we should have beaten, England have always been good at beating the lesser nations, its when ever we play against the best, we fail to win and Southgate is no exception.

People who try and put down getting to a final and semi final are talking nonsense. No matter who you beat, the opposition have knocked out some decent teams and are in the latter stages for a reason. If we had played Japan in the knockouts, you would have banged on about how they were a team we were ‘expected to beat’. Yet Japan beat both Germany and Spain. Tournament football never has been, and never will be played on paper. If you get to the semis or finals of a tournament, you have done well because there are plenty of big teams who wouldn’t of made it there. And England aren’t that good, we have no right to expect to get to tournament finals let alone win the thing. Southgate has done a decent job whether you like him or not….

 

[Grays_1890]

Football isn't like that though. It's not played on paper. You beat Colombia and Sweden, you beat Germany and Denmark, you beat Senegal. That's a decent list of teams and you could have lost any one of those.

Remember Euro 88? Remember Hoddle losing to Romania in 98. Remember Keegan losing to Romania. Sven's penalty failures. Getting thumped by Germany. Not getting out of the group in 2014. Iceland in 2016. Not even qualifying in 1994 or 2008?

England have performed well below where Southgate has them for the last 50 years with the exception of Robson and Venables and neither of them did it as consistently as Southgate is doing.

It's all too easy to criticise anything less than perfection. But it's bloody nigh on impossible to reach perfection particularly for a country that's won one tournament in its entire history.

Football is not played on paper but your post lacks context because some of the previous performances you described contained tournaments with alot better sides than currently, GHod and Sven exited against much better sides than the Croatia, France and Italy under Southgate, ne being a generational Brazil, definately one of the best in my time and GHod going out to a star studded Argentina.

Southgate has navigated us to tournaments he really should have given their lack of depth but within his whole record he has 4 wins against top 10 sides in 24....that's the crux of the criticism, no one is attacking his character but when we meet a good side his team limp out, the Croatia and Italy games he let pass by without making any significant changes.

He has to be judged on that because till those crucial games we went out in we slept walked to them (Bar Germany in the Euros)

He isn't a big game manager in my opinion and his club record doesn't stack up either

 

[Baleforce]

Football is not played on paper but your post lacks context because some of the previous performances you described contained tournaments with alot better sides than currently, GHod and Sven exited against much better sides than the Croatia, France and Italy under Southgate, ne being a generational Brazil, definately one of the best in my time and GHod going out to a star studded Argentina.

Southgate has navigated us to tournaments he really should have given their lack of depth but within his whole record he has 4 wins against top 10 sides in 24....that's the crux of the criticism, no one is attacking his character but when we meet a good side his team limp out, the Croatia and Italy games he let pass by without making any significant changes.

He has to be judged on that because till those crucial games we went out in we slept walked to them (Bar Germany in the Euros)

He isn't a big game manager in my opinion and his club record doesn't stack up either

look at the talent pool he’s got to work with though, Kane is the only player who would get into the squads Sven and Hoddle had, let alone the first team

 

[Grays_1890]

People who try and put down getting to a final and semi final are talking nonsense. No matter who you beat, the opposition have knocked out some decent teams and are in the latter stages for a reason. If we had played Japan in the knockouts, you would have banged on about how they were a team we were ‘expected to beat’. Yet Japan beat both Germany and Spain. Tournament football never has been, and never will be played on paper. If you get to the semis or finals of a tournament, you have done well because there are plenty of big teams who wouldn’t of made it there. And England aren’t that good, we have no right to expect to get to tournament finals let alone win the thing. Southgate has done a decent job whether you like him or not….

International footballs greatest teams are in stark decline though, Italy didn't make this tournament, Germany and Spain your mention are utterly turgid, France are not stacked superstars or yesteryear and neither are Brazil, so you are right, it's not played on paper and there is more to it than saying "we made the semis we must be good" which doesn't tell the full story of each tournament.

We haven't beaten anyone of note in this tournament and threw up a pukka draw against the USA. Iran, Wales and Senegal, hardly wins to crow home about

Nice bloke, average manager

 

[parklane1]

look at the talent pool he’s got to work with though, Kane is the only player who would get into the squads Sven and Hoddle had, let alone the first team

Good post, a lot of our so called GREAT players are not as good as they or some fans think they are. Overated and blown up to be something they are not.

 

[Grays_1890]

look at the talent pool he’s got to work with though, Kane is the only player who would get into the squads Sven and Hoddle had, let alone the first team

In todays scene the likes of Foden, Grealish, Saka are playing week in week out for two top sides and are huge talents.

Scores of players than play for high profile teams that regularly dominate the later stages of the CL stages which said players.

Compare the squads with today's opposition and not previous England sides and that's why we were no worse off than 2nd favs for the Euros two years ago.

We have improved and others are regressing that should have played into our hands but like I keep saying, anytime we meet anyone with abit about them we fold like a deck of cards, Southgate stands at the side, does nothing and makes no positive changes.

Croatia and Italy were horrendous watches as we got battered both second halves and the changes we needed came on 70 odd mins each time after crucial times we conceded, his in game management is car crash

And look outside the tournament record, playing 3 DMs against Hungary and still getting pummelled, he is passive and negative. Doesn't mean he is the devil incarnate as some try and use as an excuse of people not liking him, he just isn't a front foot manager that our talent pool needs in my opinion

 

[Baleforce]

In todays scene the likes of Foden, Grealish, Saka are playing week in week out for two top sides and are huge talents.

Scores of players than play for high profile teams that regularly dominate the later stages of the CL stages which said players.

Compare the squads with today's opposition and not previous England sides and that's why we were no worse off than 2nd favs for the Euros two years ago.

We have improved and others are regressing that should have played into our hands but like I keep saying, anytime we meet anyone with abit about them we fold like a deck of cards, Southgate stands at the side, does nothing and makes no positive changes.

And look outside the tournament record, playing 3 DMs against Hungary and still getting pummelled, he is passive and negative. Doesn't mean he is the devil incarnate as some try and use as an excuse of people not liking him, he just isn't a front foot manager that our talent pool needs in my opinion

foden, Grealish, saka, bang average, Hoddle and Sven had Scholes, Beckham, Anderton, Sheringham, Owen, Shearer

other than Kane, its not England players dominating in the CL for those sides

we haven't, we overate young players who put in a few good PL performances, we get beat by superior teams

I give credit to Southgate as he always hits par (at least, I wasn't sure England would get out of the group), Hoddle and Sven underachieved with what they had imo

 

[Grays_1890]

foden, Grealish, saka, bang average, Hoddle and Sven had Scholes, Beckham, Anderton, Sheringham, Owen, Shearer

other than Kane, its not England players dominating in the CL for those sides

we haven't, we overate young players who put in a few good PL performances, we get beat by superior teams

I give credit to Southgate as he always hits par (at least, I wasn't sure England would get out of the group), Hoddle and Sven underachieved with what they had imo

Hahah bang average alright then.

I'm not saying they are great but they ain't bang average

And the international scene is its weakest its been in as long as I can remember

 

[Baleforce]

Hahah bang average alright then.

I'm not saying they are great but they ain't bang average

compared to the players I listed they are, compared to Kane, Messi, Mbappe they are

there is a reason they are bit part players in PL sides