Hugo Lloris

[Kingdawson]

Who are you referring to? I'd be interested to know who you're calling 'fake-ass ones that have a good way with words and are able to hide...or be subtle about their opinions'...

No-one blamed Brad Friedel for the goal, that is you getting hysterical. What I said is that Caulker played in front of Brad on the Thursday and Lloris on the Sunday, two keepers with very different styles (I mean, you would agree with that I trust?) when it comes to how they deal with the box. I suggested that this contributed to Caulker's mistake, and I further said that IMO, in the long-term he will be a fantastic player who when he's playing a settled defence will be an excellent player for us.

fool me once shame on you...good try though:lol:

Yeh you over thought again as i said. Rather then simply say "ah ell he could have done better with the actual header" you instead bring Friedel up in the debate to deflect attention from the actual poor attempt of saving the header.

There are 2 separate incidents. one is the first passage of play when caulker doesn't leave it to lloris which is caulker's fault and then there's the actual attempt of the save which is poor and LLoris actually dives late (the one both Sky and bbc say he should have done much better). you focus solely on the first passage of play and when the second passage of play is brought up....you even have an excuse for that (something about lloris not being in the right position etc etc etc..a goalie should analyse etc etc).

If truth be told it's not the first time he's dived late. he did so for 2 of the Gooner goals (3rd and 5th). i specifically bring this up because i was told lloris would have these super dooper reflexes that will win us points..that might be but for now he hasn't shown these reflexes one bit imo.

As for him coming out i agree he's good at that. His distribution is also good too but reflexes? no he hasn't shown this yet. If you actually look at the bigger picture he's already made 3 clear cut mistakes and not saved 2 or 3 shots that he should have done better.

Let's be honest...has he even been tested much since taking over?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Let's be honest...has he even been tested much since taking over?

Lazio away was a toughie, like I said.

 

[Kingdawson]

Lazio away was a toughie, like I said.

ah yes i agree with that. He played well that game and pulled off some good saves.

 

[DubaiSpur]

ah yes i agree with that. He played well that game and pulled off some good saves.

He does seem more comfortable in European games. I'm not sure whether that's due to the quality of the opposition, the different, 'continental' styles of play he comes up against, his previous experience dealing with said types of play, the lack of physically imposing players attempting to intimidate him, or a combination of all five.

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that his settling in would best be achieved by giving him time to analyse the PL's rugged style, and bulk up accordingly, rather than throwing him in at the expense of a reliable Friedel. but I suppose his unhappiness with that situation (and Deschamps' sniping) put an end to that line of action.

 

[thfcsteff]

fool me once shame on you...good try though:lol:

Yeh you over thought again as i said. Rather then simply say "ah ell he could have done better with the actual header" you instead bring Friedel up in the debate to deflect attention from the actual poor attempt of saving the header.

There are 2 separate incidents. one is the first passage of play when caulker doesn't leave it to lloris which is caulker's fault and then there's the actual attempt of the save which is poor and LLoris actually dives late (the one both Sky and bbc say he should have done much better). you focus solely on the first passage of play and when the second passage of play is brought up....you even have an excuse for that (something about lloris not being in the right position etc etc etc..a goalie should analyse etc etc).

If truth be told it's not the first time he's dived late. he did so for 2 of the Gooner goals (3rd and 5th). i specifically bring this up because i was told lloris would have these super dooper reflexes that will win us points..that might be but for now he hasn't shown these reflexes one bit imo.

As for him coming out i agree he's good at that. His distribution is also good too but reflexes? no he hasn't shown this yet. If you actually look at the bigger picture he's already made 3 clear cut mistakes and not saved 2 or 3 shots that he should have done better.

Let's be honest...has he even been tested much since taking over?

Indeed. I don't like being accused of hiding mate. Or being 'fake-ass'. But whatever.

Here is exactly what I said about Lloris and the first goal as I saw it at the time (in match thread).

<<Just to repeat a point I made earlier 'cos I think it's relevant, on Thursday Stephen Caulker played in front of Brad Friedel who is a very different type of keeper, and today he was in front of Hugo Lloris. Call it inexperience versus lack of concentration versus rotating keepers, but this was a detail, a very singular detail, which got horribly punished today. Lloris was left scrambling back to try and retain a decent position, which prevented him having the time to come for the cross, which he would've...I don't think there was any doubt as to what Lloris wanted, I just think Caulker got confused. We need to stick by the lad, because down the line, he and Lloris will win us a lot more than they cost us...>>

I stand by it. Sorry. My opinion. Live with it because trust me, you won't change it any time soon. As for you 'I brought up Friedel to deflect...' absolutely ludicrous, and I hope you have the decency to at least admit that yourself. Someone actually posted a story about what happens when you rotate goalkeepers. Again, ludicrous that you would say that. I LIKE Brad Friedel FFS!!!!

Reflexes? Yes he has... oh yes he has...you should read Dubai's post again. It holds my view on him too. I suspect you'll take his more seriously.

 

[ArcspacE]

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that his settling in would best be achieved by giving him time to analyse the PL's rugged style, and bulk up accordingly, rather than throwing him in at the expense of a reliable Friedel.

He had 2 months of that - time to move on and accept the transition, imv

 

[DubaiSpur]

He had 2 months of that - time to move on and accept the transition, imv

Valid view, and considering the physical teams we have yet to play (Stoke being the prime example, among others) we're probably going to need him to play. But I just wonder if we could have avoided a 'transition' period entirely had we kept him on the bench a little longer.

 

[Kingdawson]

Steff Dubai thinks Lloris should spend more time on the bench....that's your view too? also where's the post about BBC needing a goalie to analyse the goal better? i can't find it but i'll look.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Steff Dubai thinks Lloris should spend more time on the bench....that's your view too? also where's the post about BBC needing a goalie to analyse the goal better? i can't find it but i'll look.

I think Lloris would have been better off had we given him more time on the bench, more time to bulk up and adapt.We're lucky in that we have two fantastic goalkeepers with limited draw-backs to each of them. I do however maintain that Lloris is, and always has been, preferable to Friedel, due to his attempts to command the box.

It's all academic now anyway, considering he's got the jersey and is unlikely to be deprived of it in favour of Friedel. And I'd suggest that we move on and focus on games we've got and points that we can win, as opposed to those we lost.

 

[africanspurs]

the everton goal was a tricky one......sometimes its hard to judge a bounce

i dont mind that he didnt save it, i mind that his acolytes have lifted him and his abilities so high that you'd have to think to yourself "how the fudge did a word class super duper keeper miss that. with his lightning fast reflex save"

you can be sure brad would get it in the neck if that was him

am sure all this has been covered already

 

[BrainOfLevy]

As soon as Caulker 'cleared' it on Sunday I called 'goal' to the mates I was watching it with. Goals are always scored when mistakes are made, and that was a blatant one. It means everyone was out of position, so the ball went back out to an Everton player, Lloris had to scramble back onto his line, and Pienaar had acres of space to fire an absolute bullet header into the goal because the defence was all over the place due to the mistake and the lack of time to recover.

So Lloris didn't have much chance. Specifically he was out of position and the header was really fast. He might have saved it, but he would have needed to be bloody quick to get it IMO. From a normal position and if any of our defenders had the chance to get closer to Pienaar to put him off in any way, it probably would have been saved, but as I said with the way it happened you could call the goal straight away from the mistake. The header was fast, and it was an awkward height for any keeper to save.

Not really blaming Lloris, any keeper would have struggled and Lloris is a really good one that should be our number 1. The goal was a mistake from a young centre back. Simple as that.

 

[onlyme]

Lloris was at fault for Pienaar's goal.

I say that as a fully paid-up member of the 'Hugo Lloris Best Keeper Spurs Could Have Conceivably Gotten on FM OM-fudging G', or 'HLBKSCHGoFOMFG', for short. I am also currently the only member, for reasons that escape me, but you get my point nonetheless.

Lloris will make mistakes, and no goalie is perfect. I say this as a struggling goalkeeper in a relatively competitive recreational league myself. The decision making process goalkeepers go through is this; you see the situation develop, determine a course of action and then follow it through. 90 percent of the time, it tends to work; you decide to go one way, or you decide to come out for the ball, and you go ahead and do it. Whether you accomplish your task or not is irrelevant; you have performed the action you determined you would perform, and thus are hailed as 'decisive'. Or 'loony' if, like me, you end up gracefully scooping the ball up into your arms 50 yards from goal for no apparent reason, though I will plead inebriation as my excuse.

But on Sunday, Lloris' shout out to Caulker didn't work; Caulker hoofed it away seconds before Hugo arrived, for reasons unknown. Suddenly, Lloris has to retreat, reposition and abandon his original course of action for an entirely new one, while a dangerous situation was quickly developing. In that situation, with incessant Everton pressure, a keeper desperate to make up for his error and unsure of what to do, and with a defense back-pedalling following Caulker's part in said error, conceding a goal like the one we did is very likely.

Lloris has phenomenal reactions; some of his saves against Lazio at the Olimpico were magnificently instinctive. But reactions alone don't help in a situation like that; you need a lot of mental strength to refocus when you've seemingly made an error of judgement, to re-judge your course of action in an extremely limited time-frame, assess the situation and reposition yourself accordingly. And Lloris was probably panicked enough to ignore that maxim, due to a combination of all the factors listed above.

So it was his fault, certainly. But given the circumstances, blaming him for not stopping it is premature. A relatively young goalkeeper fresh to one of the fastest, most stressful leagues in the world can be forgiven a few errors of judgement, or a lack of decisiveness.

As an addendum before I finish, though; Friedel retains my support in most things. I love the guy; I think he's professional, reliable and a fine goalie. But Lloris will consistently trump him in my mind for one reason, and one reason only; even if he fudges up, like him and Caulker dually did on Sunday, Lloris still tries to command his area, to claim crosses, to come out at every opportunity. That's a brave thing to do when you're relatively short and you're up against physical monsters like in the PL. Brad, despite his merits, has never done this for Spurs; he's always stayed on his line when the box is crowded. And we concede more often than not because of this. Hence, Lloris is the preferred option.

This is one of the best posts ever made on GG.

I don't normally read long posts and there are probably a few more like me who I will recommend here to read this.

 

[africanspurs]

As soon as Caulker 'cleared' it on Sunday I called 'goal' to the mates I was watching it with. Goals are always scored when mistakes are made, and that was a blatant one. It means everyone was out of position, so the ball went back out to an Everton player, Lloris had to scramble back onto his line, and Pienaar had acres of space to fire an absolute bullet header into the goal because the defence was all over the place due to the mistake and the lack of time to recover.

So Lloris didn't have much chance. Specifically he was out of position and the header was really fast. He might have saved it, but he would have needed to be bloody quick to get it IMO. From a normal position and if any of our defenders had the chance to get closer to Pienaar to put him off in any way, it probably would have been saved, but as I said with the way it happened you could call the goal straight away from the mistake. The header was fast, and it was an awkward height for any keeper to save.

Not really blaming Lloris, any keeper would have struggled and Lloris is a really good one that should be our number 1. The goal was a mistake from a young centre back. Simple as that.

was it THAT fast though? if you were to believe the WUMs who have close to like 20 thousand posts, lloris can catch a bullet with his teeth from less than a yard.

i agree though that it was a tricky one to save but mainl because of the bounce and his position at the time. but in all honesty i dont know if it was THAT fast that he didnt have much of a chance

 

[thfcsteff]

As soon as Caulker 'cleared' it on Sunday I called 'goal' to the mates I was watching it with. Goals are always scored when mistakes are made, and that was a blatant one. It means everyone was out of position, so the ball went back out to an Everton player, Lloris had to scramble back onto his line, and Pienaar had acres of space to fire an absolute bullet header into the goal because the defence was all over the place due to the mistake and the lack of time to recover.

So Lloris didn't have much chance. Specifically he was out of position and the header was really fast. He might have saved it, but he would have needed to be bloody quick to get it IMO. From a normal position and if any of our defenders had the chance to get closer to Pienaar to put him off in any way, it probably would have been saved, but as I said with the way it happened you could call the goal straight away from the mistake. The header was fast, and it was an awkward height for any keeper to save.

Not really blaming Lloris, any keeper would have struggled and Lloris is a really good one that should be our number 1. The goal was a mistake from a young centre back. Simple as that.

Exactly what I did.

 

[thfcsteff]

Steff Dubai thinks Lloris should spend more time on the bench....that's your view too? also where's the post about BBC needing a goalie to analyse the goal better? i can't find it but i'll look.

No, that is the one area where I would not be in total agreement. I think Lloris should be our goalkeeper. And yes, I will save you the time, I said it would've been nice to hear from a goalkeeper too. In the old days Schmeichel was also on. It would've been interesting to hear a goalkeeper comment on it. On another note, I have passed comment before that I think there are absolutely 'styles' of goalkeeping which are preferred by people. I was a massive Gomes fan who always felt the odd clanger he dropped would've ben out-weighed by his brilliance (I believe it was largely his brilliance which helped us make the CL, some of his performances were breath-taking) but he is less of a 'steady-eddy' than, say, Brad.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Lloris was at fault for Pienaar's goal.

I say that as a fully paid-up member of the 'Hugo Lloris Best Keeper Spurs Could Have Conceivably Gotten on FM OM-fudging G', or 'HLBKSCHGoFOMFG', for short. I am also currently the only member, for reasons that escape me, but you get my point nonetheless.

Lloris will make mistakes, and no goalie is perfect. I say this as a struggling goalkeeper in a relatively competitive recreational league myself. The decision making process goalkeepers go through is this; you see the situation develop, determine a course of action and then follow it through. 90 percent of the time, it tends to work; you decide to go one way, or you decide to come out for the ball, and you go ahead and do it. Whether you accomplish your task or not is irrelevant; you have performed the action you determined you would perform, and thus are hailed as 'decisive'. Or 'loony' if, like me, you end up gracefully scooping the ball up into your arms 50 yards from goal for no apparent reason, though I will plead inebriation as my excuse.

But on Sunday, Lloris' shout out to Caulker didn't work; Caulker hoofed it away seconds before Hugo arrived, for reasons unknown. Suddenly, Lloris has to retreat, reposition and abandon his original course of action for an entirely new one, while a dangerous situation was quickly developing. In that situation, with incessant Everton pressure, a keeper desperate to make up for his error and unsure of what to do, and with a defense back-pedalling following Caulker's part in said error, conceding a goal like the one we did is very likely.

The root cause is identified as the shout not working, is that due to the defender ignoring it? If so, the initial cause and fault is Caulker.
Though probably not the place where entirety of blame lies.

 

[DubaiSpur]

The root cause is identified as the shout not working, is that due to the defender ignoring it? If so, the initial cause and fault is Caulker.
Though probably not the place where entirety of blame lies.

An entirety of blame cannot be laid at either Lloris' or Caulker's door. However, after the error, Hugo had enough time (and space) to save the fault. He didn't. Ergo, he was at fault.

However, there are a lot of legitimate reasons why making that save was much harder than it seemed, which I tried to point out. Thus, you can't blame Lloris for what happened, even though the save was possible.

 

[Spursalot]

The root cause is identified as the shout not working, is that due to the defender ignoring it? If so, the initial cause and fault is Caulker.
Though probably not the place where entirety of blame lies.

Partly, however surely the issue then is why the clearance wasn't good enough?


I mean if he'd smashed it into row Z it wouldn't have made a difference whether or not he'd ignored the call. It's the hesitation that was the issue.

 

[Jordinho]

GIFs of the Everton goals:

Pienaar:
http://i.minus.com/iS1fDX8dyYVTV.gif
http://i.minus.com/iw4bOogxAac1O.gif

Jelavic:
http://i.minus.com/iH4hBZ1HG3CL.gif
http://i.minus.com/iewCmNx0gPf17.gif

 

[spasm]

this is getting ridiculous. both very good keepers with different strengths & weaknesses. both make great saves and mistakes. both are ours. i for one am very pleased. Lloris is our future. should Brad feel he still deserves a first team slot and wants a move, i for one will stand up, applaud his fantastic, consistent, professional contribution to Spurs and wish him all the best. of course, if he decided to stay on, i would be ecstatic with two fantastic goalkeepers in the squad.