Hugo Lloris

[DHSF]

^ yes but what a goalkeeper does isn't only limited to making saves

Lloris for example yesterday, i thought his distribution was spot on which helped set up several attacking moves, he was strong in the air and saved the shots he was given to deal with. to me it was a good performance

Oh yeah my 7 rating was based on his overall display - saves are only one aspect. The other aspect is how he claims crosses, going out when sensing danger, commanding his area etc etc etc and he did that well.

I think 7 is good - 8 is excellent - 9 is exceptional and 10 - world class.

 

[africanspurs]

How about dominating his area, claiming crosses, racing off his line to thwart danger? Lloris made no saves against Swansea for example but he stopped us from conceding a near certain goal in the very last minute.

that would count too

not the last minute thing in isolation but more a frequency and regularity of his skills to be displayed.

its isnt only saves that counts as being a good goal keeper...sometimes goal keepers make stuff look easy and like they have nothing to do because they are THAT good at reading....so yes commanding your areas, grabbing crosses..coming of you line ..can all come together to give you a superb performance...but you cant do that just a few times in the game to get a superb performance , you have to regularly be utilising your skill set.....

all this IMHO... obviously by no means is this factual. but you see this regularly when papers rate goal keepers "not much to do, made a great save towards the end......6/6.5/7..." no where will you find "had very very little to do, but grabbed a few crosses when needed and made a few good passes.......superb game!!! 9"

it sounds stupid without wanting to come across judgemental

 

[africanspurs]

im not talking about Lloris or the Stoke game here, just goalkeeping in general.

if a goalkeeper only has one or two saves to make i still think he can have a superb game by doing the rest of the stuff to a high standard - commanding his box, distribution, claiming crosses etc

in fairness it's probably the hardest position to score accurately


edit : africanspur - yeah i see what you're saying with comments like that, no real need to be knocking Brad in order to praise Lloris, poor form

yes keepers can have superb games without having to make a traditional save. but they need to be constantly showing you something for that to be the case

the hardest thing to judge ffrom the box is a goal keepers organisational skills, and the communication , relationship he has with his defensive line...that too is a skill and doing this can also make you have a superb game. but i am not there live so i wouldnt know......its safer to go by the stuff people can determine with their eyes

 

[Southcote Spur]

Would it be wrong of me to say that the last time I saw a Spurs 'keeper warrant a 10 rating was a few years ago when Gomes pulled off 3 or 4 world class saves in the last 20 minutes of a home NLD?

 

[billyiddo]

all this IMHO... obviously by no means is this factual. but you see this regularly when papers rate goal keepers "not much to do, made a great save towards the end......6/6.5/7..." no where will you find "had very very little to do, but grabbed a few crosses when needed and made a few good passes.......superb game!!! 9"

it sounds stupid without wanting to come across judgemental

not sure i get your example there as we're not talking about goalkeeping performances where they had 'very very little to do' - unless you mean very very little to do - in terms of saves?

also didn't Lloris get in to a journalists team of the week after the Swansea game, having the grand total of Zero shots on target to deal with ? :-k

 

[africanspurs]

Would it be wrong of me to say that the last time I saw a Spurs 'keeper warrant a 10 rating was a few years ago when Gomes pulled off 3 or 4 world class saves in the last 20 minutes of a home NLD?

i see what you are saying.....

IMO maybe not 10 as such...i.e perfection....but like a 9.

gomes IMO had moe 9s than brad did but brad had waaaaaaaay more 7s then gomes IMO. but that could have been a biased pschological thing thats my problem cause i was worried about gomes since before he played his first pro game for us

 

[africanspurs]

not sure i get your example there as we're not talking about goalkeeping performances where they had 'very very little to do' - unless you mean very very little to do - in terms of saves?

also didn't Lloris get in to a journalists team of the week after the Swansea game, having the grand total of Zero shots on target to deal with ? :-k

hmmm....
i'm starting to get confused now....what does shots on target have to do with it?

 

[ArcspacE]

Would it be wrong of me to say that the last time I saw a Spurs 'keeper warrant a 10 rating was a few years ago when Gomes pulled off 3 or 4 world class saves in the last 20 minutes of a home NLD?

Completely agree - he was immense in the run-in that season and contributed significantly to our 4th place finish. Collosal peformances, best I've seen in many, many years

 

[africanspurs]

not sure i get your example there as we're not talking about goalkeeping performances where they had 'very very little to do' - unless you mean very very little to do - in terms of saves?

also didn't Lloris get in to a journalists team of the week after the Swansea game, having the grand total of Zero shots on target to deal with ? :-k

billy what are we talking about then? if not a lack of engagement of your goal keepers skill set within game time

 

[billyiddo]

hmmm....
i'm starting to get confused now....what does shots on target have to do with it?

no where will you find "had very very little to do, but grabbed a few crosses when needed and made a few good passes.......superb game!!! 9"

Lloris had 'little' to do against Swansea in terms of actual saves but done enough to warrant being in some journalists team of the week - contradicting your post above, i feel

 

[africanspurs]

Lloris had 'little' to do against Swansea but done enough to warrant being in some journalists team of the week - contradicting your post above, i feel

so he didnt do much in that game is what your saying but the journo still stuck him in there for team of the week? well then yes that would cross off what i said, though i maintain i dont understand how you can put someone in the team of the week if as you say they had little to do....whats the reason and the displays that were shown for him to get into the team of the week then?

which journo was that? and what was the actual score given ? and did they claim or hint or insinuate that he had a superb or great game?

it would be nice if you could find that cause they normally give reasons why they do what they do in teams of the week

was a slow day at the goal keeping office maybe?

 

[JPG_357]

I know what KD is getting at.

If the default rating for a keeper is 6 then Lloris probably deserves a 7 - simply because he didnt need to do much as opposed to his performance being brick.

Everything he needed to do he did very well but its all few and far between.

Saying Lloris was superb is giving the impression that Stoke hammered us and that Lloris was a one man barrier

The way I look at it, if a keeper gives an excellent display of the goalkeeping arts as Lloris did yesterday then he should be praised up for it.

For me keeping a clean sheet the default rating is 7/8, depending on circumstances. Playing as well as Lloris did yesterday, he definitely should get an 8 for me. I gave him 9 and talked about him being superb because so many people seemed to be underrating him. I just don't get how he can rate less than 7.

 

[africanspurs]

P.S , i am still not sure what shots on target has to do with having 'Little to do' in a game?

 

[africanspurs]

by any chance did you totally ignore this paragraph that was directly above the bit you quoted

its isnt only saves that counts as being a good goal keeper...sometimes goal keepers make stuff look easy and like they have nothing to do because they are THAT good at reading....so yes commanding your areas, grabbing crosses..coming of you line ..can all come together to give you a superb performance...but you cant do that just a few times in the game to get a superb performance , you have to regularly be utilising your skill set.....

it would add more context to the bit you quoted i personally feel. if it doesnt then let me know and i'll explain

 

[billyiddo]

lol i dunno about all that mate, just remember him being put in the team of the week - and it getting posted on here somewhere.

 

[JPG_357]

it can get annoying. especially when its at the expense of another player thats given solid service.

its not a lloris friedel thing. its a hypocrisy thing more often than not..rating brad down for very very little and stupid things and rating lloris UP for minor things

it isnt fair, its isnt consistent and it can get annoying. and sometimes i get the feeling people are happy when the team suffers so they can have a go at the scape goat

i am very cynical yes LOL...but joking aside i think thats a gist of what annoys me about the whole thing

And I feel the same about the way so many people played down Lloris, a world class player and probably the biggest signing ENIC have ever made, and yet didn't get anywhere near the reception he deserved, and the idea that Brad was on his level, really grated with me. hugo is much better than Brad and i like Brad BTW

 

[Mumorn]

It was Garth Crooks' team of the week and this is what he said:

Hugo Lloris makes my team of the week for the first time after a clean sheet against Swansea that is worthy of recognition. It's not been an easy transition for the Spurs keeper since his arrival from France, especially with Brad Friedel breathing down his neck.
Did you know? Lloris (63%) has managed a better saves-to-shots percentage than club rival Friedel (60%) this season in the Premier League.

 

[JPG_357]

that would count too

not the last minute thing in isolation but more a frequency and regularity of his skills to be displayed.

its isnt only saves that counts as being a good goal keeper...sometimes goal keepers make stuff look easy and like they have nothing to do because they are THAT good at reading....so yes commanding your areas, grabbing crosses..coming of you line ..can all come together to give you a superb performance...but you cant do that just a few times in the game to get a superb performance , you have to regularly be utilising your skill set.....

all this IMHO... obviously by no means is this factual. but you see this regularly when papers rate goal keepers "not much to do, made a great save towards the end......6/6.5/7..." no where will you find "had very very little to do, but grabbed a few crosses when needed and made a few good passes.......superb game!!! 9"

it sounds stupid without wanting to come across judgemental

What's stupid is the paper rating a keeper playing as well as Hugo with 6, but if you think I'm being stupid fine, you seemed to think there wasn't much to choose between Brad and Hugo IIRC.

 

[africanspurs]

What's stupid is the paper rating a keeper playing as well as Hugo with 6, but if you think I'm being stupid fine, you seemed to think there wasn't much to choose between Brad and Hugo IIRC.

i didnt say you were being stupid. i am very sorry if you feel offended as you have been nothing but civil throughout this whole debate. i apologise if you didnt like what i said

but just to clarify , it sounds 'stupid to me' if you see somewhere in the papers that a goal keeper had very little to do but then bam you give them a 9 for doing one or two note worthy things. the notion doesnt make sense to me

 

[billyiddo]

African - my initial response seems to have been lost to the stuff about team of the week, which was really a throw away comment.

we seem to be in agreement that a goalkeeper can have a good game without having to make many saves, but then you started talking about games where they have 'very very little to do' - wto which i replied :

not sure i get your example there as we're not talking about goalkeeping performances where they had 'very very little to do' - unless you mean very very little to do - in terms of saves?

hence my comment about TotW.

but anyway assuming you just mean close to zero involvement in the game at all i agree that it would be impossible for a Goalkeeper to have a 'superb' game