Huddlestone

[Spur of the moment]

He's not a great header of the ball, he's a defensive/deep midfielder primarily though, I don't see it as a big deal. Quite far from a priority for him. I don't think he's as bad as you say, he's no worse than many central midfielders.

If it's true that he can't tackle, doesn't track players and that his defensive reading of the game is poor how did we manage so well with him and Modric in the centre? Seriously. How do you explain this? I could see your point if he only did well next to a Palacios, Sandro or Parker type player, but that's not true. He did well, and we as a team did well with him and Modric in the centre, both in a 4-4-2 and in a 4-4-1-1 formation. Against very good opposition even.

I was a bigger fan of Modric than most on here, but even I wouldn't argue that he was so good defensively that he could carry a player that can't tackle, doesn't track players and can't read the game.

If the Modric and Huddlestone example isn't enough how about some stats? http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/30/Archive?stageId=3115

In the 09/10 season he almost matched Palacios with his number of tackles per game (3.7 vs 3.9) and matched him exactly with the number of interceptions. I struggle to see how this was possible if he can't tackle or read the game. And just to be clear, I'm not relying only on stats here, I'm just using stats as one part of my argument. If you can find some problem with how I'm interpreting these stats, or point to some way these kinds of stats aren't valid you're still left with the argument above.

=D>

^ that was meant to be the applause smiley

 

[parklane1]

all wrong IMO

Which of course you are entitled to.

 

[parklane1]

Not sure just how highly people are hyping him at this point. Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?

He's demonstrably good enough to be a regular starter for a team that got into a top 4 side. He's demonstrably good enough to play without a dedicated defensive midfielder next to him against good opposition in a midfield duo for a team close to the top of the table.

There's a big difference between that and being so good that top teams will be chasing him because he will improve them. Even more so after 18 months on the sideline with injuries.

I don't see anyone here arguing that he's better than Carrick or You're (never mind the top European sides). What I'm seeing is people saying that he's a good player with quite a lot of potential that has proven himself good enough for a team chasing a top 4 finish.

He came here with his old manager saying he would be a major player for England, MJ even mentioned he was the next Beckenbauer, there were other similar comments made by others; I have even heard some fans compere him to Hoddle, to say there was no hype around him is just not true.

As i say it will be interesting to see just who comes in for him when he goes this summer, i would hazard a guess and say at best it will be a mid table team.

 

[braineclipse]

He came here with his old manager saying he would be a major player for England, MJ even mentioned he was the next Beckenbauer, there were other similar comments made by others; I have even heard some fans compere him to Hoddle, to say there was no hype around him is just not true.

As i say it will be interesting to see just who comes in for him when he goes this summer, i would hazard a guess and say at best it will be a mid table team.

That's not really relevant. You were talking about the hype that surrounds him, not the hype that surrounded him. I was very clear about this, making a point about saying "at this point" and "Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?" If every player should be judged by how highly they were hyped at their hypiest (that's not a word, is it?) level of their career and what other people at one point said about them then most players would be found lacking I believe.

 

[parklane1]

That's not really relevant. You were talking about the hype that surrounds him, not the hype that surrounded him. I was very clear about this, making a point about saying "at this point" and "Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?" If every player should be judged by how highly they were hyped at their hypest (that's not a word, is it?) level of their career and what other people at one point said about them then most players would be found lacking I believe.

Please do not split airs as it spoils your argument, the truth is that he has been hyped before and since he came here, like i have said he has been compered by SPURS fans to Hoddle. Lets see what happened in the summer, if he goes ( and as i have said i believe he will) then it may show the AVB feels he is not good enough either.

 

[Spur of the moment]

He came here with his old manager saying he would be a major player for England, MJ even mentioned he was the next Beckenbauer, there were other similar comments made by others; I have even heard some fans compere him to Hoddle, to say there was no hype around him is just not true.

As i say it will be interesting to see just who comes in for him when he goes this summer, i would hazard a guess and say at best it will be a mid table team.

Wouldn't argue with that. You'd have to be something very special for a 'Big Club' to take a punt on someone who was out for so long and is still struggling to regain his pre-injury levels of performance.

Doesn't mean he's no longer capable of recapturing those pre-injury levels. Going by what little we've seen in the last couple of games he's been a class above everyone around him, so why on earth get rid?.

 

[Jordinho]

Wouldn't argue with that. You'd have to be something very special for a 'Big Club' to take a punt on someone who was out for so long and is still struggling to regain his pre-injury levels of performance.

Doesn't mean he's no longer capable of recapturing those pre-injury levels. Going by what little we've seen in the last couple of games he's been a class above everyone around him, so why on earth get rid?.

He was not. He came on in the 75th and 77th minute and looked just as pedestrian as he has done earlier this season, but the fact that everyone else have been running their asses off up to that point means he will get the extra time and space he needs.

 

[braineclipse]

Please do not split airs as it spoils your argument, the truth is that he has been hyped before and since he came here, like i have said he has been compered by SPURS fans to Hoddle. Lets see what happened in the summer, if he goes ( and as i have said i believe he will) then it may show the AVB feels he is not good enough either.

Well, the lack of precision is spoiling your argument. Most of this conversation is about what Hudd can potentially do for us now, his chances of staying at the club next season, what he did for us the last time he got regular football and so on. I asked you a specific question, "Not sure just how highly people are hyping him at this point. Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?" Like I said, your answer wasn't really relevant, to my question or to the conversation. Pointing that out isn't splitting hairs, that's trying to keep the conversation on topic.

I'm arguing against him being without drive, ambition, will and determination. I'm also arguing against your point of view that he can't tackle, doesn't track players and that his defensive reading of the game is poor.

Top clubs not chasing him after 18+ months out with various injuries is not an argument against my position. Neither is the point that someone overrated him 5 years ago.

If you just want to state your opinion and move on that's fine, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence as affy already did.

 

[parklane1]

He did not. He came on in the 75th and 77th minute and looked just as pedestrian as he has done earlier this season, but the fact that everyone else have been running their asses off up to that point means he will get the extra time and space he needs.

Indeed, plus he came on against teams who were defending a lead and sitting back. He is fine when teams do not close him down, but when opposing players get in his face he is a liabilty.

 

[parklane1]

Well, the lack of precision is spoiling your argument. Most of this conversation is about what Hudd can potentially do for us now, his chances of staying at the club next season, what he did for us the last time he got regular football and so on. I asked you a specific question, "Not sure just how highly people are hyping him at this point. Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?" Like I said, your answer wasn't really relevant, to my question or to the conversation. Pointing that out isn't splitting hairs, that's trying to keep the conversation on topic.

I'm arguing against him being without drive, ambition, will and determination. I'm also arguing against your point of view that he can't tackle, doesn't track players and that his defensive reading of the game is poor.

Top clubs not chasing him after 18+ months out with various injuries is not an argument against my position. Neither is the point that someone overrated him 5 years ago.

If you just want to state your opinion and move on that's fine, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence as affy already did.

We are going round in circles pal, as for your point in bold we disagree and it will be interesting to see which opinion AVB has in the summer.

 

[jurgen lineker]

Completly disagree with that, IF he is as good as the hype that surrounds him then they would be top teams chasing him, now as i say that MAY happen but i doubt it very much.

My point wasn't necessarily regarding Huddlestone, i was just pointing out in what i believe was a flaw in the dismissal you put forward. My point basically was that, generally speaking, if a player leaves a club and no top team comes in for him, then that does not necessarily imply that he isn't any good or that he does not have the ability to play for a top club. In most cases i agree it is the case but not all. There are plenty of examples, similar to the ones i mentioned in my previous post, where certain players have left top clubs that have then gone on to rebuild their reputations back up at smaller clubs.

 

[parklane1]

My point wasn't necessarily regarding Huddlestone, i was just pointing in what i believe was a flaw in the dismissal you put forward. My point basically was that, generally speaking, if a player leaves a club and no top team comes in for him, then that does not necessarily imply that he isn't any good or that he does not have the ability to play for a top club. In most cases i agree it is the case but not all. There are plenty of examples, similar to the ones i mentioned in my previous post, where certain players have left top clubs that have then gone on to rebuild their reputations back up at smaller clubs.

You may have a point, however we are talking about Hudd and if he was as good as some say he is that the top/better teams would be interested. From what i have been led to believe the only clubs who have shown interest in him in the past have been Fulham, Stoke and there was talk about Everton a couple of seasons back but was denied by Moyes.

As i have said lets see who comes in for him in the summer.

 

[braineclipse]

We are going round in circles pal, as for your point in bold we disagree and it will be interesting to see which opinion AVB has in the summer.

Lol, we really can't agree on anything here. I don't see how we're going around in circles, but fair enough we can leave it there.

I have already said that I think it's most likely that he will leave in the summer. Whatever AVB does in the summer really doesn't say anything about anything we've discussed here apart from the point that he was overrated at one point, something I think most here already agree on.

 

[Superhudd]

Please do not split airs as it spoils your argument, the truth is that he has been hyped before and since he came here, like i have said he has been compered by SPURS fans to Hoddle. Lets see what happened in the summer, if he goes ( and as i have said i believe he will) then it may show the AVB feels he is not good enough either doesn't fit his system.

More the likely scenario.

 

[Superhudd]

You may have a point, however we are talking about Hudd and if he was as good as some say he is that the top/better teams would be interested. From what i have been led to believe the only clubs who have shown interest in him in the past have been Fulham, Stoke and there was talk about Everton a couple of seasons back but was denied by Moyes.

As i have said lets see who comes in for him in the summer.

lol, so you pick the teams that you know of recently after he has been injured, that we wanted to send him on loan for the season. You have no idea who may of been wanting to take Huddlestone.. still looking at Google.. plenty of rumours

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2056496/Tom-Huddlestone-Liverpool-radar.html

http://metro.co.uk/2010/10/29/tom-h...er-uniteds-january-transfer-wish-list-566464/

Spurs community thread Utd want Hudd for 16m

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...pposedly-interested-in-16m-huddlestone.65245/

Its funny, your talking like everyone rates Hudd like he is a 25m player at this moment in time, thus justifying he isn't by saying top teams would be in for him. People are not, he is a squad player, a damn fine squad player at that, one that could get back in a starting role.

 

[parklane1]

:

lol, so you pick the teams that you know of recently after he has been injured, that we wanted to send him on loan for the season. You have no idea who may of been wanting to take Huddlestone.. still looking at Google.. plenty of rumours

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2056496/Tom-Huddlestone-Liverpool-radar.html

http://metro.co.uk/2010/10/29/tom-h...er-uniteds-january-transfer-wish-list-566464/

Spurs community thread Utd want Hudd for 16m

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...pposedly-interested-in-16m-huddlestone.65245/

Its funny, your talking like everyone rates Hudd like he is a 25m player at this moment in time, thus justifying he isn't by saying top teams would be in for him. People are not, he is a squad player, a damn fine squad player at that, one that could get back in a starting role.

Wow the Daily Fail and even worse the Metro, please tell me you do not read or believe anything in those rags :ross: :ross:

 

[Spur of the moment]

lol, so you pick the teams that you know of recently after he has been injured, that we wanted to send him on loan for the season. You have no idea who may of been wanting to take Huddlestone.. still looking at Google.. plenty of rumours

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2056496/Tom-Huddlestone-Liverpool-radar.html

http://metro.co.uk/2010/10/29/tom-h...er-uniteds-january-transfer-wish-list-566464/

Spurs community thread Utd want Hudd for 16m

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...pposedly-interested-in-16m-huddlestone.65245/

Its funny, your talking like everyone rates Hudd like he is a 25m player at this moment in time, thus justifying he isn't by saying top teams would be in for him. People are not, he is a squad player, a damn fine squad player at that, one that could get back in a starting role.

=D>

Doubtless even this evidence will now be systematically deconstructed by the Thudd haters.

 

[Spur of the moment]

:



Wow the Daily Fail and even worse the Metro, please tell me you do not read or believe anything in those rags :ross: :ross:

Like I said.

 

[Superhudd]

:



Wow the Daily Fail and even worse the Metro, please tell me you do not read or believe anything in those rags :ross: :ross:

Well I did say rumours did I not, and plucked from google. I don't believe in rumours myself. I believe it when its on spurs.co.uk.

Just like you I do not know the in's and out's of who may or may not have interest. Just what speculation is out there in the media.

YOUR point was a top team has NOT been interested.

Please enlighten everyone how YOU know this please.

I await your reply

 

[parklane1]

Well I did say rumours did I not, and plucked from google. I don't believe in rumours myself. I believe it when its on spurs.co.uk.

Just like you I do not know the in's and out's of who may or may not have interest. Just what speculation is out there in the media.

YOUR point was a top team has NOT been interested.

Please enlighten everyone how YOU know this please.

I await your reply

Please read what i posted again below, if yourread it correctly this time you will see i never said top team has NOT been interested.

From what i have been led to believe the only clubs who have shown interest in him in the past have been Fulham, Stoke and there was talk about Everton a couple of seasons back but was denied by Moyes.