Huddlestone

[parklane1]

What will be interesting is when we come to sell him ( and we will) just how many top teams come in for him, seeing as he is such a Rolls Royce player.

 

[Modric THFC]

Just because someone looks good coming on for the last 15 minutes, as Defoe occasionally has, does not mean they will be able to replicate that as starters. I don't see Huddlestone as being happy to sit on the bench in case we need him specifically at the end of a game.

I don't see him as a player who is demanding to start. I think he's happy being at a big London club and living that lifestyle.

If he wanted to make the most of his ability, he would have moved to a southern european league that would suit his playing style. He doesnt have the drive or ambition.

 

[Spursalot]

I don't see him as a player who is demanding to start. I think he's happy being at a big London club and living that lifestyle.

If he wanted to make the most of his ability, he would have moved to a southern european league that would suit his playing style. He doesnt have the drive or ambition.

If he doesn't have the drive or ambition that would be yet another reason to get rid of him though.


If he's happy sitting on the bench he won't be trying to improve himself. You want players on the bench who are fighting for starting spots.

 

[parklane1]

If he doesn't have the drive or ambition that would be yet another reason to get rid of him though.


If he's happy sitting on the bench he won't be trying to improve himself. You want players on the bench who are fighting for starting spots.

indeed, the biggest problem with Hudd is he has fallen for all the hype that has surrounded since he came here, he has neither the will or the determination to work at his faults and after nearly 200 games for us he still has them.

 

[Spur of the moment]

If he doesn't have the drive or ambition that would be yet another reason to get rid of him though.


If he's happy sitting on the bench he won't be trying to improve himself. You want players on the bench who are fighting for starting spots.

The idea that a player of his class is perfectly happy to sit on the bench is frankly laughable.

 

[Jordinho]

Never fails to amaze me how on this forum players are judged on current form regardless of their class or what they've shown in the past.

How old is Tom Huddlestone? 2?! FFS he is yet to come into his prime. For sure he is taking an eternity get back to the sort of form that made him purr like a Rolls Royce prior to that long series of debilitating injuries. But to assume because of that he must now be finished, that is one big leap.

Wonder if on United forums there all clamouring to get rid of van Persie. The donkey has only scored one League goal this year so he must be utter brick.

Bale anyone?

That is because form is everything when picking the starting XI and I don't agree with the assertion that Huddlestone is class. What happened 2 years ago does not matter one iota when it comes to selecting a team today. I never thought he was as good as was being made out in the first place. He is very good at some things, like hitting long, precise passes, and he can strike the ball as clean as anyone, but thats not the same as having a great shot. He fit the team and tactics then, but while he's been out things have changed. He doesn't have the mobility or the necessary skill set to be a starting midfielder for us under AVB. We are trying to play a high line with short, quick passing. I say trying as there's still a way to go, but Hudd would be a backwards step in that evolution.

I find it funny how this 'remember how good he was' only counts for some players, but others are just reverting to their brick self.

Bale still varies a lot in his performances, but he's constantly improving. I don't fawn over everything he does now, just as I didn't call for him to be discarded in his early days.

 

[Spursalot]

The idea that a player of his class is perfectly happy to sit on the bench is frankly laughable.

You quoted the wrong post, i was responding to the guy that said he would be alright with it.

 

[Spur of the moment]

That is because form is everything when picking the starting XI and I don't agree with the assertion that Huddlestone is class. What happened 2 years ago does not matter one iota when it comes to selecting a team today. I never thought he was as good as was being made out in the first place. He is very good at some things, like hitting long, precise passes, and he can strike the ball as clean as anyone, but thats not the same as having a great shot. He fit the team and tactics then, but while he's been out things have changed. He doesn't have the mobility or the necessary skill set to be a starting midfielder for us under AVB. We are trying to play a high line with short, quick passing. I say trying as there's still a way to go, but Hudd would be a backwards step in that evolution.

I find it funny how this 'remember how good he was' only counts for some players, but others are just reverting to their brick self.

Bale still varies a lot in his performances, but he's constantly improving. I don't fawn over everything he does now, just as I didn't call for him to be discarded in his early days.

Well with reference to your deconstruction of Thudd, I despair. Of course he's got his limitations. Modric didn't score enough from midfield, Lennon doesn't put in enough quality crosses. Defoe is selfish, doesn't hold the ball up for a striker, isn't tall / strong enough, doesn't win headers etc. I should have course go on like this for every member of the squad but you catch my drift.

My point about Bale was his FORM at one point was so poor he was deemed brick enough to sell to Birmingham.

Players confound judgements about their form all the time. I have no doubt Thudd will go on to confound yours.

 

[Spursalot]

Well with reference to your deconstruction of Thudd, I despair. Of course he's got his limitations. Modric didn't score enough from midfield, Lennon doesn't put in enough quality crosses. Defoe is selfish, doesn't hold the ball up for a striker, isn't tall / strong enough, doesn't win headers etc. I should have course go on like this for every member of the squad but you catch my drift.

My point about Bale was his FORM at one point was so poor he was deemed brick enough to sell to Birmingham.

Players confound judgements about their form all the time. I have no doubt Thudd will go on to confound yours.

Bale had a poor streak and improved his form, therefore Huddlestone will improve his form? Faulty logic there somewhere.

The fact that other players can't do things should have very little bearing on whether or not Huddlestone is good enough for us. The only thing that should have bearing on it is well, Huddlestone himself.

Unless you compare him with our CM's, but you chose Modric who's not here, Defoe and Lennon. Not exactly useful in any way shape or form.

Huddlestone may go on to show that he is a good player somewhere else, that will not mean he was good enough for us though.

 

[Superhudd]

Bale still varies a lot in his performances, but he's constantly improving. I don't fawn over everything he does now, just as I didn't call for him to be discarded in his early days.

Well don't you deserve a pat on the back. :ross:

 

[Spur of the moment]

Bale had a poor streak and improved his form, therefore Huddlestone will improve his form? Faulty logic there somewhere.

The fact that other players can't do things should have very little bearing on whether or not Huddlestone is good enough for us. The only thing that should have bearing on it is well, Huddlestone himself.

Unless you compare him with our CM's, but you chose Modric who's not here, Defoe and Lennon. Not exactly useful in any way shape or form.

Huddlestone may go on to show that he is a good player somewhere else, that will not mean he was good enough for us though.

 

[Spursalot]

If that's not what you meant then elaborate.


The fact that a young player got better (Bale) is not related to Huddlestone being in poor form.


You bought up Bale, because we almost sold him when he wasn't playing well. which is irrelevant. Bale improved, but that does not mean Huddlestone will. In fact far more often it's not players playing badly, it's them reverting to their actual ability.

Especially after such a long period.

 

[jurgen lineker]

What will be interesting is when we come to sell him ( and we will) just how many top teams come in for him, seeing as he is such a Rolls Royce player.

If we do sell and no top teams come in for him then that does not necessarily prove that he isn't any good.

It was not so long ago that we were rid of Kaboul, cast off as a joke, now he is regarded as one of the Prem's best CBs. Riquelme? Rossi? Forlan? All players that spring to mind (i'm sure there are plenty of others) that failed somewhat at 'bigger' clubs that then rebuilt their reputations once more at smaller clubs to then become much sought after again..

 

[braineclipse]

I don't see him as a player who is demanding to start. I think he's happy being at a big London club and living that lifestyle.

If he wanted to make the most of his ability, he would have moved to a southern european league that would suit his playing style. He doesnt have the drive or ambition.

What are you basing this on?

Before his injury problems he was making quite a lot out of his ability. He was a first choice midfielder for us in my opinion, at the very least he was getting a lot of games. He started 33 league games in the 09/10 season, you remember, the year we got into the Champions League. Having shown himself worthy also of playing against the likes of Inter in the Champions League the following season (10/11) his injury problems started and they followed him throughout the next season (11/12) too. Only returning to action this season, where he's had some smaller injuries. There have been no reports this season that he's lazy or not trying to break into the side. He looks fit and he seems to be doing his very best to help the team whenever he's given a chance.

indeed, the biggest problem with Hudd is he has fallen for all the hype that has surrounded since he came here, he has neither the will or the determination to work at his faults and after nearly 200 games for us he still has them.

Same question to you, what are you basing this on?

What faults are you talking about that are still there after nearly 200 games for us? His lack of athleticism? His lack of pace? His size? If you're talking about any of those that's like saying that Defoe is too short and he's at fault for not getting any taller. But, giving you credit, I'm going to assume you're talking about other attributes. What are they?

If you honestly believe that the Tom Huddlestone that started 33 league games for us in the 09/10 season helping us to a CL spot in the process had all the same faults that Tom Huddlestone had when he first signed for the club I struggle to even take you seriously though, no credit to be found. If you think he got to where he was without will or determination or hard work I don't even know where to start convincing you otherwise.

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To repeat myself from previously in this thread: I think there's a very good chance that Hudd will be gone in the summer, he doesn't seem to fit in very well with AVB's plans. I think he still can play an important part for the remainder of the season, depending on how games develop and what kind of injuries we pick up along the way. I'm not saying he's a superstar. I'm just defending him against what I think are unfounded accusations of being without drive, ambition, will and determination because from where I'm sitting that seems like an unfair characterization of the man.

 

[parklane1]

Same question to you, what are you basing this on?

What faults are you talking about that are still there after nearly 200 games for us? His lack of athleticism? His lack of pace? His size? If you're talking about any of those that's like saying that Defoe is too short and he's at fault for not getting any taller. But, giving you credit, I'm going to assume you're talking about other attributes. What are they?

If you honestly believe that the Tom Huddlestone that started 33 league games for us in the 09/10 season helping us to a CL spot in the process had all the same faults that Tom Huddlestone had when he first signed for the club I struggle to even take you seriously though, no credit to be found. If you think he got to where he was without will or determination or hard work I don't even know where to start convincing you otherwise.

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Well lets put it this way, he can not tackle, he can not head a ball, he never tracks opposing players and his defensive reading of the game is really poor for a pro player, he had these faults when he calme and he still has them. All these faults can be worked on and rectified. The fact that he has not shows the problem nad its not the coaches.

 

[parklane1]

If we do sell and no top teams come in for him then that does not necessarily prove that he isn't any good.

It was not so long ago that we were rid of Kaboul, cast off as a joke, now he is regarded as one of the Prem's best CBs. Riquelme? Rossi? Forlan? All players that spring to mind (i'm sure there are plenty of others) that failed somewhat at 'bigger' clubs that then rebuilt their reputations once more at smaller clubs to then become much sought after again..

Completly disagree with that, IF he is as good as the hype that surrounds him then they would be top teams chasing him, now as i say that MAY happen but i doubt it very much.

 

[braineclipse]

Well lets put it this way, he can not tackle, he can not head a ball, he never tracks opposing players and his defensive reading of the game is really poor for a pro player, he had these faults when he calme and he still has them. All these faults can be worked on and rectified. The fact that he has not shows the problem nad its not the coaches.

He's not a great header of the ball, he's a defensive/deep midfielder primarily though, I don't see it as a big deal. Quite far from a priority for him. I don't think he's as bad as you say, he's no worse than many central midfielders.

If it's true that he can't tackle, doesn't track players and that his defensive reading of the game is poor how did we manage so well with him and Modric in the centre? Seriously. How do you explain this? I could see your point if he only did well next to a Palacios, Sandro or Parker type player, but that's not true. He did well, and we as a team did well with him and Modric in the centre, both in a 4-4-2 and in a 4-4-1-1 formation. Against very good opposition even.

I was a bigger fan of Modric than most on here, but even I wouldn't argue that he was so good defensively that he could carry a player that can't tackle, doesn't track players and can't read the game.

If the Modric and Huddlestone example isn't enough how about some stats? http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/30/Archive?stageId=3115

In the 09/10 season he almost matched Palacios with his number of tackles per game (3.7 vs 3.9) and matched him exactly with the number of interceptions. I struggle to see how this was possible if he can't tackle or read the game. And just to be clear, I'm not relying only on stats here, I'm just using stats as one part of my argument. If you can find some problem with how I'm interpreting these stats, or point to some way these kinds of stats aren't valid you're still left with the argument above.

 

[braineclipse]

Completly disagree with that, IF he is as good as the hype that surrounds him then they would be top teams chasing him, now as i say that MAY happen but i doubt it very much.

Not sure just how highly people are hyping him at this point. Who in here are saying that he's so good that top teams should be chasing him?

He's demonstrably good enough to be a regular starter for a team that got into a top 4 side. He's demonstrably good enough to play without a dedicated defensive midfielder next to him against good opposition in a midfield duo for a team close to the top of the table.

There's a big difference between that and being so good that top teams will be chasing him because he will improve them. Even more so after 18 months on the sideline with injuries.

I don't see anyone here arguing that he's better than Carrick or Toure (never mind the top European sides). What I'm seeing is people saying that he's a good player with quite a lot of potential that has proven himself good enough for a team chasing a top 4 finish.

 

[africanspurs]

Well lets put it this way, he can not tackle, he can not head a ball, he never tracks opposing players and his defensive reading of the game is really poor for a pro player, he had these faults when he calme and he still has them. All these faults can be worked on and rectified. The fact that he has not shows the problem nad its not the coaches.

all wrong IMO

 

[Rorschach]

Horses for courses. Hudd has a range of attacking talents that can be used against the right opposition and for that reason alone we should hang onto him. The argument that the Basel match was suited to him is valid. The match did suit him and he was the right player for that situation.

The introduction of passers rather than destroyers means that your possession stats should jump and consequently you have less defending to do. I think that is why the midfield combo of Modric and Hudd worked quite well. We kept the ball better.