Sounds great but who would protect Hudd while he's lining up those passes? Or Modric to dictate the tempo? Or who would help win the ball in the middle? None of those 3 are prolific tacklers. 4-5-1 without a DM would be very naive, imv. Perhaps agianst really realy brick teams - but then again you can go 2 upfront
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Huddlestone
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Sounds great but who would protect Hudd while he's lining up those passes? Or Modric to dictate the tempo? Or who would help win the ball in the middle? None of those 3 are prolific tacklers. 4-5-1 without a DM would be very naive, imv. Perhaps agianst really realy brick teams - but then again you can go 2 upfront
braineclipse
Willie Hall
but in a 451 you need to dominate WITH the ball, its all about possession and you need a lot of creativity to make the system work. Parker and Sandro dont really offer that, definitely not against the better teams. With Thudd alongside Modric and in behind a floating VDV, we would have a triffic triangle of talent which would help release Bale and Lennon to do their damage in behind the opposition
Yes. See my post about the Inter game as well, we used that exact midfield trio. I would like to see that again at some point.
Most teams that play 3 in the middle can accommodate players that might not otherwise be able to play a central midfield role all that effectively because of their lack of physical or defensive ability. Players like Fabregas, Wheelchair, Nasri, Rosicky for Arsenal, Joe Allen and Sigurdsson for Swansea. Even players like Xavi and Iniesta, as brilliant as they are might not have been as good as a part of a 4-4-2 central midfield duo with more space to cover and more defensive duties.
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indianspur
Guest
Are you purposefully choosing not to read my posts? In the current team Hudd would be alongisde Livermore in contention for a spot in the middle with a fit Sandro, Parker, and Modric ahead of him. Any way you want to spin it.
Oh - and City only singed Silva the following season and also played a 4-4-2 that game with Ade and Tevez upfront
in your opinion. But who is to say that a fit and firing Thudd might have made Redknapp reconsider and restore Modric and Thudd back into the centre. He dropped 14 mill Palacios to accommodate Thudd and Modric, No reason to think he wouldnt do the same to sandro and parker
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indianspur
Guest
Sounds great but who would protect Hudd while he's lining up those passes? Or Modric to dictate the tempo? Or who would help win the ball in the middle? None of those 3 are prolific tacklers. 4-5-1 without a DM would be very naive, imv. Perhaps agianst really realy brick teams - but then again you can go 2 upfront
you seriously underestimate Thudd's ability to win the ball back. When he was fit and in with Modric, there was a stat showing him to be one of the top 5 in tackles and interceptions iirc
Yes. See my post about the Inter game as well, we used that exact midfield trio. I would like to see that again at some point.
Most teams that play 3 in the middle can accommodate players that might not otherwise be able to play a central midfield role all that effectively because of their lack of physical or defensive ability. Players like Fabregas, Wheelchair, Nasri, Rosicky for Arsenal, Joe Allen and Sigurdsson for Swansea. Even players like Xavi and Iniesta, as brilliant as they are might not have been as good as a part of a 4-4-2 central midfield duo with more space to cover and more defensive duties.
In all those teams/formations there is always a DM behind these creative players
you seriously underestimate Thudd's ability to win the ball back. When he was fit and in with Modric, there was a stat showing him to be one of the top 5 in tackles and interceptions iirc
I simply feel we have better now, that is all.
If anything - let's rejoice this splendour of talent where not so long ago we had Stalteri, Tainio and Zokora
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indianspur
Guest
Palacios dropped himself due to poor form - and Arry really seems to rate Parker so I'd say the odds are against him so he'd have to wait for an injury/suspension most likely
and parker is in sparkling form i see, same with Sandro. They are now performing no better than palacios did back then.
Sandro has regressed, yes he has struggled with injuries, and Parker is worn out. Obvious to anyone paying attention
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Are you purposefully choosing not to read my posts? In the current team Hudd would be alongisde Livermore in contention for a spot in the middle with a fit Sandro, Parker, and Modric ahead of him. Any way you want to spin it.
Oh - and City only singed Silva the following season and also played a 4-4-2 that game with Ade and Tevez upfront. Yaya Toure didn't play either.
Nope I'm not. I will now ask you for the third time. Based on what is Livermore alongside Hudd? Last time I asked you answered: "He's alongside Livermore beacuse he'd most likely be imho behind Modric Parker and Sandro. That makes him joint 4th if you want to make it sound better. And based on Livermore's current outings - he could well edge him within a season or 2, who knows." Not giving a single reason why Livermore is currently as good as Hudd and then going into potential future ability. When I went into potential future things you asked me about the relevance. What am I misunderstanding?
Oh - and no! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8901397.stm
City with Silva and Toure and we outplayed them.
and parker is in sparkling form i see, same with Sandro. They are now performing no better than palacios did back then.
Sandro has regressed, yes he has struggled with injuries, and Parker is worn out. Obvious to anyone paying attention
Not a chance - not even close
Parker's had a long season and needs a little rest. Sandro had one really poor game against Everton and has been solid prior to his earlier injury
Nope I'm not. I will now ask you for the third time. Based on what is Livermore alongside Hudd? Last time I asked you answered: "He's alongside Livermore beacuse he'd most likely be imho behind Modric Parker and Sandro. That makes him joint 4th if you want to make it sound better. And based on Livermore's current outings - he could well edge him within a season or 2, who knows." Not giving a single reason why Livermore is currently as good as Hudd and then going into potential future ability. When I went into potential future things you asked me about the relevance. What am I misunderstanding?
City with Silva and Toure and we outplayed them.
Livermore is not necessarlty as good as Hudd - they simply are behind the top 3. Simple maths really, Let me attempt to explain this graphically
Modric
Parker
Sandro
__________
Livermore / Hudd
That doesn't mean he's as good (or bad) as Livermore - simply not ahead of the top 3. We can place Gio there if you want too - same argument. Think of it as one big round table where they sit eating crisps, waiting for their call.
P.S. - Thought you were intially referring to the 0:1 from May that year. My bad
braineclipse
Willie Hall
In all those teams/formations there is always a DM behind these creative players
With 3 midfielders there is less space to cover for each player. So each player gets less defensive responsibility and you can get away with players that are slightly inferior defensively compared to what you need to make a 4-4-2 work.
I assume you're talking about Leon Britton, Song and Busquts as the defensive midfielders? And while I agree that they are defensive midfielders they aren't your typical Makelele type defensive midfielder that charges around and tackles a lot.
I assume you're talking about Leon Britton, Song and Busquts as the defensive midfielders? And while I agree that they are defensive midfielders they aren't your typical Makelele type defensive midfielder that charges around and tackles a lot.
Yes, but their main duties are defensive ones of deep lying deployment. Anything above that is a massive bonus - i.e. Song and his through balls, etc. They protect the middle and generally refrain from roaming
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indianspur
Guest
Not a chance - not even close
Parker's had a long season and needs a little rest. Sandro had one really poor game against Everton and has been solid prior to his earlier injury
Parker has had a long season? did he play in europe? no. Did he play in the Carling cup? no
he has played 24 premier league games and 3 FA cup games. Sorry, but he has to cope better with that little lot.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Livermore is not necessarlty as good as Hudd - they simply are behind the top 3. Simple maths really, Let me attempt to explain this graphically
Modric
Parker
Sandro
__________
Livermore / Hudd
That doesn't mean he's as good (or bad) as Livermore - simply not ahead of the top 3. We can place Gio there if you want too - same argument. Think of it as one big round table where they sit eating crisps, waiting for their call.
P.S. - Thought you were intially referring to the 0:1 from May that year. My bad
Graphically:
Modric>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Parker>>Sandro=Huddlestone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Livermore>>>>>>>>>>>>>*10^65>>>>Gio.
But he's still stuck on the same table as Livermore.
Plus the gulf in class between him and Livermore is slightly exaggerated imv. The latter would be preferred in certain games - my initial and only point really. Seeing that you appear to be in agreement let's close this off now.
Plus the gulf in class between him and Livermore is slightly exaggerated imv. The latter would be preferred in certain games - my initial and only point really. Seeing that you appear to be in agreement let's close this off now.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Yes, but their main duties are defensive ones of deep lying deployment. Anything above that is a massive bonus - i.e. Song and his through balls, etc. They protect the middle and generally refrain from roaming
They are deep playmakers, they have both attacking and defensive duties. Huddlestone can do all of those things you describe easily. And there is no need for a classical defensive midfielder. Or at least less so compared to a 4-4-2.
Parker has had a long season? did he play in europe? no. Did he play in the Carling cup? no
he has played 24 premier league games and 3 FA cup games. Sorry, but he has to cope better with that little lot.
He's played virtually 90 mins in every game and probably covered the most distance and done the hardest graft. In addition to being nearly 32.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
But he's still stuck on the same table as Livermore.
Plus the gulf in class between him and Livermore is slightly exaggerated imv. The latter would be preferred in certain games - my intial and only point. Seeing that you appear to be in agreement let's close this off now.
Surely Sandro is sitting at the same table then as long as we play a 4-4-2? Waiting for his chance. The gulf in quality between Livermore and Hudd is about the same as the gulf in quality between Parker, Sandro and Hudd compared to Modric.
They are deep playmakers, they have both attacking and defensive duties. Huddlestone can do all of those things you describe easily. And there is no need for a classical defensive midfielder. Or at least less so compared to a 4-4-2.
Song and Busquets are nothing like deep-playmakers. Please
Against a harder team I'd opt for Sandro or Parker as the third man