Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[ArcspacE]

As I said, I'm not saying it's 'okay'. But again, the way you're talking is like a spoiled child, demanding that they satisfy us with better results. Apologies if that sounds offensive; I'm not trying to start an argument or get personal.

We had a bad performance against Arsenal, a couple of results from which we deserved more against United, Everton, Stoke and Chelsea, and now we've found ourselves lacking confidence. Given how good they've been for most of the season, I think the players deserve our support to help them get their confidence back, rather than our insults calling them qunts.

I don't demand the title - simply feel heart-broken now that we've tinkled away our best season start in 150 years and the Arsebandits made up 15 points on us and will finish again above us.

I'm hurt and disappointed becase this time we had the ability and players to do it but we blew it instead. Like we always fudging go. Top 4 should be the abolsute minimum for this squad. Demanding that is not spoilt or childish - it would be very much realistic and in line with our season objectives from the Execs, etc.

PS. We didn't deserve to win any of the games you listed btw - outplayed proper and fair. Sad but true, mate.

 

[Pirate55]

Hoilett I agree with. The rest? Well, if we bought Samba, Caulker, our brightest prospect in years, would be on his way out of the Lane, because he wouldn't get a game. If we bought a quality striker, Defoe would have been on his way, and any hopes of signing Ade on a permanent deal would be blown through the window. Ditto Sessegnon and Cisse. Plus, we'd have to spend a boat load more on these players than we otherwise would have, due to the January effect, potentially throwing our financial situation and our stadium prospects into disarray.

Quite simply, thinking a bit ahead is often more beneficial to a club in the long term than rash decisions. Hoilett, I agree with; we needed cover on the wings and why we never got any, and then loaned out Pienaar and Townsend, is beyond me. The rest of it is a bit too unrealistic.

so, let me get this right, are you suggesting we dont buy anyone (except Hoillet) in case it upsets one of the existing squad? First, what if Hoillet upsets Lennon and he wants to leave? Second, how are we ever going to improve the squad? Samba is better than Nelsen and would have made a better partner for Kaboul. Caulker could still come and fight for his place. To say we shouldnt have bought another target man striker is ridiculous. When Ade is poor, injured or off form we dont have a like for like replacement. ditto Lennon, BAE and Walker. Hence our shuffling the team with disasterous results. Why are the signings I suggested unrealistic?

 

[Roy1983]

I can't deny that they deserve a bit of stick. Well actually, maybe I can.... doesn't the success that they've brought us in the last 3 seasons earn them our support through a tough patch? Through much of which we deserved better results? Fans constantly chastise 'disloyal' players, but have we been showing much loyalty recently? Cheering when we do well, and then booing and moaning and abusing as soon as we do badly?

Even if you think they do deserve stick, that definitely shouldn't make us forget that it was they who got us into this great position in the first place.

Gotta say I don't buy into the view 'the players dont deserve criticsm due to the success we've had in the past couple of years'. Sorry that's done. Yeah we all love the fact we've improved ten-fold under Redknapp but that doesn't mean I won't have a moan if, like last year, we go on a run like we're on now.

 

[Pirate55]

fudging hell. Suddenly any player that's done well in the last 3 weeks Harry should have bought, and apparently it is blindingly obvious that he should have done so. After the fact.

This has gotten totally absurd.

Hoillet, Samba and Sessignon were all suggested before the window closed. Everyone on here said we needed a top quality striker. To have only three Ade, Saha and Defoe just shows how deficient we are in this respect. Only one can effectively lead the line as a sole striker.

 

[elltrev]

I don't demand the title - simply feel heart-broken now that we've tinkled away our best season start in 150 years and the Arsebandits made up 15 points on us and will finish again above us.

I'm hurt and disappointed becase this time we had the ability and players to do it but we blew it instead. Like we always fudging go. Top 4 should be the abolsute minimum for this squad. Demanding that is not spoilt or childish - it would be very much realistic and in line with our season objectives from the Execs, etc.

PS. We didn't deserve to win any of the games you listed btw - outplayed proper and fair. Sad but true, mate.

I get it, I am absolutely gutted too. I felt depressed for days after the City and Arsenal results. I'm spending hours on this forum, when I have other very important stuff to do. And for the third time, I'm not saying I think our current form is 'okay', or that I'm not 'concerned'!

I guess I don't think that harry's peaked, and I also think that he did more than fulfil his obligations as manager up until recently. I think he deserves more credit for the point that he's got us to, rather than people just acting as if we've always been the 3rd best team in the league and that it has nothing to do with him.

I think anything below the top FIVE should be seen as failure for this squad, but I'm not sure about top four. And to me demanding anything as a fan comes across as spoiled, apart from the players and manager trying their best (as cheesy as that might sound).

I understand your analogy about you at work, but for me the difference is that Harry has got us to where we are - he has exceeded the minimum of what a manager should be doing - and we shoudln't ignore that when rating him as a manager. Nor should we be too swayed by an admittedly heartbreaking run of just 8 games. Everton got off to a bad start this season, so did Arsenal. But they've turned it around, and I don't see why we can't. Nothing has changed permanently, we're just low on confidence. To sack Harry after one bad run would be a mistake IMO, unless we can replace him with someone who is guaranteed to be better. If we can do that, then I won't be against it, but I'll still be more grateful to Harry for what he's done for the club than tinkled off with him for what he hasn't.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Gotta say I don't buy into the view 'the players dont deserve criticsm due to the success we've had in the past couple of years'. Sorry that's done. Yeah we all love the fact we've improved ten-fold under Redknapp but that doesn't mean I won't have a moan if, like last year, we go on a run like we're on now.

but doesn't this run need to be in the context of the previous good form? would that not mitigate against some of the criticism (which has at times, from some parts, been venomous) because we know, as his record illustrates, that this isn't the norm?

it's not like he has a record like Kean or McLeish where you extrapolate over a season and get relegation.

in other words, for me, he has brownie points... his credit in the bank of goodwill (no pun intended) far outweighs this recent poor run.

 

[elltrev]

Gotta say I don't buy into the view 'the players dont deserve criticsm due to the success we've had in the past couple of years'. Sorry that's done. Yeah we all love the fact we've improved ten-fold under Redknapp but that doesn't mean I won't have a moan if, like last year, we go on a run like we're on now.

Again, this kind of comes down to the spoiled fan thing for me.... I will moan and boo if I feel like players aren't putting in effort because they can't be arsed or because they don't care. But I'm not going to just because they're low in confidence.

 

[Beanbag]

I'm not ignoring the postitives although you appear hard on selling the premise of using that as a justification for not feeling 'concerened' about the current disaster

And I simply disagree with the logic of bricking away our season now and feelig 'okay' about it due to the fact we did well few months back. I fail to see the rationale behind this.

I did well few years back in my work but still have to meet my deadlines tomorrow. And if I fail - questions will be raised.


To summarise - in my opinion Arry has peaked and needs to go irrespective of England and all the other flimflam which attempts to derail our season daily. Even if it's for the sake of Levy trusting someone with large transfer fees and long terms transfer vision.
Else we might experience the same anti-climax next season and ask the exact same questions.

to be perfectly honest our form towards the end of a season has always been a problem even before Harry was in charge. However my question to you Arc is follows:

If Arry came out and commited to us for the right reasons in other words choose Spurs over england and not stay at Spurs cos he didnt get the england Job-Do you still think he must go?

 

[P.D.]

What is more ridicious is that as it stands come the end of the season our only strikers will be Defoe and Saha.

 

[AdamB]

Hoillet, Samba and Sessignon were all suggested before the window closed. Everyone on here said we needed a top quality striker. To have only three Ade, Saha and Defoe just shows how deficient we are in this respect. Only one can effectively lead the line as a sole striker.

The whole window was a disaster. No Cb, CF or winger cover. How you attribute that between levy and Harry is difficult to say. It can be taken for gratned though that Levy wouldnt have naturally wanted to sign Nelsen and Saha - if we couldnt get proven players he would have gone for 20 year olds

 

[AdamB]

What is more ridicious is that as it stands come the end of the season our only strikers will be Defoe and Saha.

Van Der Vaart?

 

[Wriggly]

I love the old 'history' card's that get played. I couldnt give a fudging toss (gotta be worth 10 pt infeaction surely ?) about what previous managers have done in relation to Harry, all I know right now is that Harry has been a major contributor of turning a 10pt lead in 3rd and arguably challenging, also a 13 pt lead over the scum into a -5pt deficate in a matter of weeks. Thats whats going on right now and its the present I prefer to live in.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Again, this kind of comes down to the spoiled fan thing for me.... I will moan and boo if I feel like players aren't putting in effort because they can't be arsed or because they don't care. But I'm not going to just because they're low in confidence.

i'd agree with that, and there seems to be a lot of opinion that this is the case.

i just don't see it. they want to win probably more than we do. it's their careers, their trophies, their win bonuses and their move to one of the BIG boys.

i think lack of confidence and form is easily misidentified as lack of effort.

 

[ArcspacE]

to be perfectly honest our form towards the end of a season has always been a problem even before Harry was in charge. However my question to you Arc is follows:

If Arry came out and commited to us for the right reasons in other words choose Spurs over england and not stay at Spurs cos he didnt get the england Job-Do you still think he must go?

I posted a poll to this exact same question yesterday and got a roughly 50/50 split

Arry could have come out and 'committed' the day Capello walked in turn killing all media reach-around and specualtion. Instead he was hitcking skirt and ****-teasing the media for weeks and basking the attention from every single fudging footballer, manager and his dog. So - no, he must go in my book.

 

[indianspur]

How to turn a 10 point lead over Arse into a potential 11 point deficit by the time we next play against QPR.....will be a legendary tale to tell future generations

 

[ArcspacE]

I understand your analogy about you at work, but for me the difference is that Harry has got us to where we are - he has exceeded the minimum of what a manager should be doing - and we shoudln't ignore that when rating him as a manager. Nor should we be too swayed by an admittedly heartbreaking run of just 8 games. Everton got off to a bad start this season, so did Arsenal. But they've turned it around, and I don't see why we can't. Nothing has changed permanently, we're just low on confidence. To sack Harry after one bad run would be a mistake IMO, unless we can replace him with someone who is guaranteed to be better. If we can do that, then I won't be against it, but I'll still be more grateful to Harry for what he's done for the club than tinkled off with him for what he hasn't.

It wouldn't be a bad run though, mate. It would be the second season running we fail to make CL with our best squad in 20 years having been in the perfect position to do so for 3/4 of the season. That to me spells something is missing and needs to be recitfied.

I fully appreciate his input over the years but I'm also objectively aware of his limiations and prepared to accept those

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

How to turn a 10 point lead over Arse into a potential 11 point deficit by the time we next play against QPR.....will be a legendary tale to tell future generations

means f-all if we come 4th, qualify for the CL proper. i don't care about that lot down the road.

add a cup to that and we're all good.

heck, we could even finish 3rd yet...

 

[elltrev]

It wouldn't be a bad run though, mate. It would be the second season running we fail to make CL with our best squad in 20 years having been in the perfect position to do so for 3/4 of the season. That to me spells something is missing and needs to be recitfied.

I fully appreciate his input over the years but I'm also objectively aware of his limiations and prepared to accept those

Fair enough. I'll wait until the end of this season before making a judgement, but if we do finish below 4th then the bolded fact can't be denied.

Still, the season before that we had a strong finish to the season in which we won when it mattered against some tough teams, and we got 4th. So I'm not prepared to write Harry off, unless we are guaranteed to be able to get someone in who is guaranteed to be better.

Also, I think it's important to remember - which was kind of the point of this thread - that Harry has played a large part in shaping this 'best squad in 20 years'. We can't compete financially with United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool, especially if we don't get 4th, and there's no guarantee that another manager will be able to maintain such a good squad by being as shrewd as Harry has and by getting the most out of his players for most of th time he's been here.

 

[ArcspacE]

heck, we could even finish 3rd yet...

LOL

That's the spirit :mrgreen:

 

[elltrev]

I love the old 'history' card's that get played. I couldnt give a fudging toss (gotta be worth 10 pt infeaction surely ?) about what previous managers have done in relation to Harry, all I know right now is that Harry has been a major contributor of turning a 10pt lead in 3rd and arguably challenging, also a 13 pt lead over the scum into a -5pt deficate in a matter of weeks. Thats whats going on right now and its the present I prefer to live in.

But he's also been a major contributor of getting Champions League for the first time, being successful in it, and then getting into 3rd and having a 13 point lead over the Scum. If you prefer to focus on the negative then that's your prerogative, but it seems ridiculous to ignore the fact that what we're all tinkled off to have seen us lose if the stuff that Harry got us in the first place! It's not like he was hired the day before the Arsenal game!