Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[totman]

I apologise if people think there's no need to make another Redknapp thread, but I think that it is worth having one whose purpose is to point out the good things that Harry has done for us, rather than the bad. People are chastising him for his perceived faults, and for letting slip the best position that we've had in years... But seem to forget that it was him who got us into the position in the first place!

I don't know if you knew this, but when he arrived at Spurs, we had 2 points from 8 games! :lol: And we'd just had a season in which we finished 11th. So it's fair to say that the mood and the confidence wasn't great. Now if we discount Ramos' 8 games, and 'extrapolate' Harry's 30 games to a full 38 game season, this is what you get:

62 Points ... 52 Goals For ... 42 Goals Against

Of course this isn't a perfect science but, given that Ramos' 8 games were played against 2 eventual top-half teams and 6 eventual bottom-half teams, if anything it's a conservative estimate.

Let's compare those totals to Jol's last two full seasons:

65 points ... 53 Goals For ... 38 Goals Against
60 points ... 57 Goals For ... 54 Goals Against

Then, 10 games into the following season, we were 18th in the league with 7 points and a goal-difference of -4. He was sacked.

There's no doubt that the 05-06 season under Jol was a great achievement. But in the following one we went backwards, and in the one after that we had the kind of run that Redknapp is getting chastised for now. Except that we're currently 4th, and at that point we were 18th.

What Redknapp achieved in his first season was almost as good as Jol's 05-06 season, and slightly better than what he achieved in the 06-07 season. But from there, we've only got stronger.

In Harry's first full season, we achieved our best season in decades:

70 Points ... 67 Goals For ... 41 Goals Against

Harry's signings Bassong, Palacios, Kranjcar, Defoe and Crouch all played significant roles. Huddlestone, who had previously started 18 games at most in a season, started 33 - more than any other Spurs player.
Bale, Spurs' 'cursed' player, filled in at left-back when Ekotto was injured in the latter half of the season. When Ekotto came back, Harry pushed Bale up to left midfield and pushed Modric, who most said was too lightweight to play centrally in the PL, into the middle. With 4th place on the line, Harry motivated the team to beat Arsenal, Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project to secure their first Champions League place in decades.

The following season, Spurs' first ever in the current version of the Champions League, we finished top of our group after beating Inter Milan, and then beat AC Milan over 2 legs.

We again finished above Liverpool, but with the extra burden of Champions League, could only achieve 5th with:

62 Points ... 55 Goals For ... 46 Goals Against - pretty similar to Harry's first season and Jol's last two.

This season, Spurs have played some of the best football the club has seen in decades, and at one stage were 3rd in the league and challenging for the title. Many of the key first team players who achieved this have been brought in by Harry - Friedel, Walker, Kaboul, Gallas, Parker, Sandro and Adebayor. And many of them are playing the football of their careers under him - Walker (maybe), Kaboul, Ekotto, Modric and Bale stand out in that respect.

Has our recent run of SIX poor results in the last EIGHT games, THREE of which we deserved better from, been frustrating and disappointing? Yes. But to let that taint our view of everything else we have done under Harry is undeniably wrong. And to deny Harry credit for how good the team currently is on paper is ridiculous. Half of our first team has been bought by him, and many of our best players have become the stars that they are whilst playing for him. How many people wanted to sell Bale before he broke out? or Ekotto? How many people argued that Modric couldn't cut it in central midfield? How many people didn't want Friedel, Gallas, Parker or Adebayor?

Criticising some of Redknapp's decisions is fine; I do it all the time. But to deny him the credit that he deserves for helping to shape and build the team that got Champions League, and that now sees anything less than that as a sackable failure, is unfair and short-sighted.

This is why Harry deserves credit, time and patience.

If we get 4th, thats two 4th place finishes and a 5th in three full seasons.

Can I ask what people expected realistically from Spurs, or Harry when he came in? I think most people thought we were definately getting relegated.

 

[Poker Boy]

Equally, he's lucky this run of bad form has happened at this point in the season. It's this kind of form happening at the start of the season that got the last manager sacked.

But say there was no good or bad form. What if the results this season had gone like this?

wwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlw

Once again totally hypothetical but no way would there be anyone screaming for him to go.

 

[totman]

But say there was no good or bad form. What if the results this season had gone like this?

wwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlwwdlw

Once again totally hypothetical but no way would there be anyone screaming for him to go.

Harry spoiled them, and gave them the best football theyve seen Spurs play for decades, now they want his head.....because he's brick

 

[Wriggly]

But he's also been a major contributor of getting Champions League for the first time, being successful in it, and then getting into 3rd and having a 13 point lead over the Scum. If you prefer to focus on the negative then that's your prerogative, but it seems ridiculous to ignore the fact that what we're all tinkled off to have seen us lose if the stuff that Harry got us in the first place! It's not like he was hired the day before the Arsenal game!

I have heaped praise on Harry for that, it was such a brilliant run that I will never forget, we had the whole world talking about us. Even Guardiola was hoping to get us in the next round to pit his wits against us. Never felt so proud of my team as I did then and yes I put most of that down to management. I'll never forget that.

Are you saying because he had such a good 1st half of the season he is not allowed to have any negativity thrown towards him for his 2nd half collapse ?

 

[indianspur]

Because the last time we finished above Arsenal was when?

what does that matter? Wigan had NEVER won a game against Man U, but they managed it last night.

and its not just about being behind Arsenal, its the fact that 3rd place and guaranteed CL qualification is now looking highly unlikely. I would say that it is a poor end to a season that could and should have been so much better. Spread the results out however you want, the result will still be the same. 59 points from 33 games, 5 points off 3rd, joint 4th, the team in a poor run of form with games running out to turn around the form. The manager, the players, the chairman, all should take responsibility.

 

[indianspur]

yes the success of his period in charge means that expectations are raised. why? because it shows we have good players, who have done well but have the potential to do even better. Fans are not stupid, we can all see teams who are performing above their capabilities, punching above their weight. But this isnt said about Tottenham, fans have seen what we can do and they talk about us in the same breath as Utd, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. People in the media talked of us challenging for the title at one point, so they must have believed that the players were up to it. Thats why the slide down the table is hard to accept. Its not all Redknapp's fault, most sane fans are not saying that. However he has made strange choices, there are question marks about fitness/training/details, but the players also have let the fans down. There is a fragility amongst the players mentality. The chairman maybe could have released some more funds. Who knows. I dont think anyone is beyond criticism in all whats happened and is happening.

 

[DanishWhite]

Harry spoiled them, and gave them the best football theyve seen Spurs play for decades, now they want his head.....because he's brick

No.

Because the football is nowhere near "the best" anymore. Performance-wise we are stuck in average Martin Jol days. Resultswise we are in the latest Juande Ramos days.

 

[Poker Boy]

Spread the results out however you want, the result will still be the same. 59 points from 33 games, 5 points off 3rd, joint 4th.

59 points from 33 games joint 4th sounds shocking doesn't it!!!

Because if we hadn't started the season so well and Arsenal so badly how many people would think we should be above them? If you had asked 100 neutrals at the start of the season what would the top 4 be with 5 games to go how many would have mentioned Spurs seeing as we've finished in the top 4 once?

 

[Wriggly]

No.

Because the football is nowhere near "the best" anymore. Performance-wise we are stuck in average Martin Jol days. Resultswise we are in the latest Juande Ramos days.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Unfortunately one of the downsides of having someone on an ignore list means when he is quoted I still see the drivel.

 

[DanishWhite]

59 points from 33 games joint 4th sounds shocking doesn't it!!!

Because if we hadn't started the season so well and Arsenal so badly how many people would think we should be above them? If you had asked 100 neutrals at the start of the season what would the top 4 be with 5 games to go how many would have mentioned Spurs seeing as we've finished in the top 4 once?

If you add

"....top 4 with 5 games to go, but having gotten only a 6 points from the last 8 games and lost 15 points on Arsenal in less that 3 months"

I bet the picture gets a bit more complete.

 

[Wriggly]

59 points from 33 games joint 4th sounds shocking doesn't it!!!

Because if we hadn't started the season so well and Arsenal so badly how many people would think we should be above them? If you had asked 100 neutrals at the start of the season what would the top 4 be with 5 games to go how many would have mentioned Spurs seeing as we've finished in the top 4 once?

15 posts in and they are all completely irrelevant 'What If's' :lol:

 

[indianspur]

59 points from 33 games joint 4th sounds shocking doesn't it!!!

Because if we hadn't started the season so well and Arsenal so badly how many people would think we should be above them? If you had asked 100 neutrals at the start of the season what would the top 4 be with 5 games to go how many would have mentioned Spurs seeing as we've finished in the top 4 once?

why are you so concerned about the past? what do previous seasons have to do with the fact that this season we were comfortably 3rd and now are battling it out for 4th and 5th, possibly 6th depending on how Chelsea cope with all their games?

 

[Poker Boy]

I agree a lot of ifs buts and maybes

The season is 38 games long and you play every team twice and there hasn't been many times when we've had 59 points from 33 games.

 

[monkeybarry]

gotta be honest - we really do need some perspective

at the start of the season i think most of us thought "good shout of top, probably a three horse race for two spots with us, Chelsea and Arsenal".

That is what has happened - and Saudi Sportswashing Machine has done a 04/05 Spurs to make it a four horse race.

The season lasts 38 games, not 33 - so lets see where we finish come 90mins at home to Fulham

I think Chelseas stuttering season and Arsenals aweful start gave us a bit of a false sense of grandure and now a lot of people are finding it hard to come to terms with that we are NOT the 3rd best team in the country, merely on a par with aforementioned.

its a long season - ups and downs happen, now is a quite big down. win the next 5 and we deff make 4th (our pre season goal)
finish 5th - at the start of the season we would have seen that as a small failure, but understandable considering the strength of 5 (6 inc Newc this season) fighting for 4 places

 

[Poker Boy]

gotta be honest - we really do need some perspective

at the start of the season i think most of us thought "good shout of top, probably a three horse race for two spots with us, Chelsea and Arsenal".

That is what has happened - and Saudi Sportswashing Machine has done a 04/05 Spurs to make it a four horse race.

The season lasts 38 games, not 33 - so lets see where we finish come 90mins at home to Fulham

I think Chelseas stuttering season and Arsenals aweful start gave us a bit of a false sense of grandure and now a lot of people are finding it hard to come to terms with that we are NOT the 3rd best team in the country, merely on a par with aforementioned.

its a long season - ups and downs happen, now is a quite big down. win the next 5 and we deff make 4th (our pre season goal)
finish 5th - at the start of the season we would have seen that as a small failure, but understandable considering the strength of 5 (6 inc Newc this season) fighting for 4 places

This

 

[monkeybarry]

why are you so concerned about the past? what do previous seasons have to do with the fact that this season we were comfortably 3rd and now are battling it out for 4th and 5th, possibly 6th depending on how Chelsea cope with all their games?

because the season lasts 38 games, not 33
yeah, 3rd was ours to lose - and we've lost it (something which we must learn from).
but if we still acheive our pre-season goal, that is on par acheivement

 

[totman]

No.

Because the football is nowhere near "the best" anymore. Performance-wise we are stuck in average Martin Jol days. Resultswise we are in the latest Juande Ramos days.

That would have a semblence of credibility if we had gone to sh#t for a season or two. But a two month slide on the back of 4 months of arguably the best football in the PL, and the manager should be sacked? Laughable.

We slumped a year ago, but still turned it around earlier this season. He can do it again, and deserves support.

 

[indianspur]

i think most observers of the game would say that despite the past, if the past was important, Arsenal have out-performed this season, mainly because of RVP's outrageous form. A team so reliant on one player could never have been expected to finish 3rd. If thats the case then the current Premier League is one of the worst in history

 

[elltrev]

I have heaped praise on Harry for that, it was such a brilliant run that I will never forget, we had the whole world talking about us. Even Guardiola was hoping to get us in the next round to pit his wits against us. Never felt so proud of my team as I did then and yes I put most of that down to management. I'll never forget that.

Are you saying because he had such a good 1st half of the season he is not allowed to have any negativity thrown towards him for his 2nd half collapse ?

No. I'm just saying that he shouldn't be judged only on the recent poor run of form, which is what a lot of people seem to be doing - saying he should be sacked because of this 'collapse'. He should be judged on our form across the whole season, and indeed our form of the previous two seasons. For me, a bad run over 8 matches isn't enough to make me forget how good we've been under him overall, and to think he should be sacked.

If we end up 6th, and there are other good managers available, I might not be against him going.

 

[indianspur]

lets shut down this forum until after the final game of the season. Only after 38 games are we allowed to make judgements, have an opinion.