Harry Kane MBE

[billyiddo]

Depends what is being claimed as a failure tbh a team is only the sum of it's parts - if you have one or two stand out players and you set the bar for success at their level rather than the level of the team as a whole, then you're putting an unrealistic target in place

 

[glasgowspur]

I agree with this. He is as responsible as anyone but it seemed like you were putting more of the blame on him than others. He does indeed bare an equal amount of responsibility for our failures as well as our relative successes.

If our midfield is trash, our forwards aren't going to be able to perform. That's not to remove him of any blame but yesterday the fault lay with the midfield and the 5 at the back system primarily.

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I can understand why that comes across that way, i honestly do see it. my frustration isn't with kane, its with this blind loyalty that he gets.
For some it is literally everyone's fault but his.
Never anything to do with harry. Our record in s/f, finals and games like last night that mean something is atrocious.
The one constant in those teams, work it out.
Not saying that is all down to him, but say he is blameless and that its our fault he (not spurs btw but harry kane) hasn't a won a trophy just doesn't wash for me.

 

[billyiddo]

I know we disagree on this but I really don't think we did. We had a good first 11 but there was no depth of quality and only one truly creative player which as I'll always argue is never enough. Shut down Eriksen and you shut down Spurs. But that's by the by, it's gone now so no point overly debating it now.

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I say in the opening line only in so far as the starting XI

 

[billyiddo]

I can understand why that comes across that way, i honestly do see it. my frustration isn't with kane, its with this blind loyalty that he gets.
For some it is literally everyone's fault but his.
Never anything to do with harry. Our record in s/f, finals and games like last night that mean something is atrocious.
The one constant in those teams, work it out.
Not saying that is all down to him, but say he is blameless and that its our fault he (not spurs btw but harry kane) hasn't a won a trophy just doesn't wash for me.

The constant is that the teams have not been good enough yet despite your protestations you want to focus on the individual.

We had a top team for about a 1 to 2 year period leading up to leaving WHL, since then we have only been a team that should be in and around the fight for a top 4 place, which is largely where we have been (so where'sthe failure?) a team of that standing being shut down in big games against top opposition isn't a surprise.

 

[glasgowspur]

The constant is that the teams have not been good enough yet despite your protestations you want to focus on the individual.

We had a top team for about a 1 to 2 year period leading up to leaving WHL, since then we have only been a team that should be in and around the fight for a top 4 place, which is largely where we have been (so where'sthe failure?) a team of that standing being shut down in big games against top opposition isn't a surprise.

So our record in cup competitions isn't failure?
I will say it again, i'm not focusing on any individual, we are a team, we win as a team we lose as a team.
When we win they all deserve praise, when we lose they all deserve criticism.
Some can't seem to grasp that.

 

[billyiddo]

So our record in cup competitions isn't failure?
I will say it again, i'm not focusing on any individual, we are a team, we win as a team we lose as a team.
When we win they all deserve praise, when we lose they all deserve criticism.
Some can't seem to grasp that.

When have we ever been a team that goes in to the season setting a realistic target of winning a trophy? When have we ever played a semi or final as the favourite? The answer is back before this current era so no i don't consider our record there a failure.

Our teams over the last few years have been average/poor, elevated a level or two because we have a couple of top class goalscorers - this works out well over a season and why we are always a good bet to challenge for the CL places, but it leaves you easy to nullify in big games v top opposition who have a more even spread of quality across the pitch. You can talk about winning and losing together all you want but that is a simple analysis that should be obvious to all.


Edit : just to say that we are starting to up the general level of the team since Paratici has come in and hopefully this continues over the coming windows - until we have a team as strong as 16/17 with some genuine quality off the bench we can't realistically target trophies & title challenges

 

[Bishop]

When have we ever been a team that goes in to the season setting a realistic target of winning a trophy? When have we ever played a semi or final as the favourite? The answer is back before this current era so no i don't consider our record there a failure.

Our teams over the last few years have been average/poor, elevated a level or two because we have a couple of top class goalscorers - this works out well over a season and why we are always a good bet to challenge for the CL places, but it leaves you easy to nullify in big games v top opposition who have a more even spread of quality across the pitch. You can talk about winning and losing together all you want but that is a simple analysis that should be obvious to all.


Edit : just to say we are starting to up the general level of the team since Paratici has come in and hopefully continues over the coming window- until we have a team as strong as 16/17 with some genuine quality off the bench we can't realistically target trophies & title challenges

When have we ever been a team that goes in to the season setting a realistic target of winning a trophy? When have we ever played a semi or final as the favourite? The answer is back before this current era so no i don't consider our record there a failure.

Our teams over the last few years have been average/poor, elevated a level or two because we have a couple of top class goalscorers - this works out well over a season and why we are always a good bet to challenge for the CL places, but it leaves you easy to nullify in big games v top opposition who have a more even spread of quality across the pitch. You can talk about winning and losing together all you want but that is a simple analysis that should be obvious to all.

Again I'm in 100% agreement here. Sure underdogs can win and it's a fair criticism that as underdogs we never manage to pull it off (CL semi excluded). But we aren't a top team from top to bottom. Our rivals always have either had more sheer quality or more quality in reserve that can and has saved the day for them.

The quality of our sides has never really been balanced. Our forwards have been significantly better than other areas of the team. I can semi understand why Glasgow seeing the quality of that frontline has wanted more from it and I have also seen people making excuses as if Kane himself is divorced from the team but as both of you have said. It's always the team that wins or the team that fails together.

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[Jurgen the German]

When have we ever been a team that goes in to the season setting a realistic target of winning a trophy? When have we ever played a semi or final as the favourite? The answer is back before this current era so no i don't consider our record there a failure.

Our teams over the last few years have been average/poor, elevated a level or two because we have a couple of top class goalscorers - this works out well over a season and why we are always a good bet to challenge for the CL places, but it leaves you easy to nullify in big games v top opposition who have a more even spread of quality across the pitch. You can talk about winning and losing together all you want but that is a simple analysis that should be obvious to all.


Edit : just to say we are starting to up the general level of the team since Paratici has come in and hopefully continues over the coming window- until we have a team as strong as 16/17 with some genuine quality off the bench we can't realistically target trophies & title challenges

Personally I think we had a team capable of wining trophies from 2016-2019. We often looked like the best team in the country when the pressure was off, but as soon as it came to crunch, one-off do or die games, more often than not we froze. That’s not only on Kane, collectively and individually no one arrested a decline in those win and go top games or in FA cup semi finals. I think Fergie said you need 8 players to play well in order to win a match. I felt no more than 1-2 played well in the big games. CL final only Rose and Winks turned up. The fact that Arsenal won 4 FA cups in the last 8 years when more often than not we had better teams and squads then them is quite baffling. Not saying we should have won the league or the CL, but to have the likes of Kane, Son, Toby, Jan, Eriksen and Dembele and have not a single trophy to show for it is frustrating.

 

[billyiddo]

Personally I think we had a team capable of wining trophies from 2016-2019. We often looked like the best team in the country when the pressure was off, but as soon as it came to crunch, one-off do or die games, more often than not we froze. That’s not only on Kane, collectively and individually no one arrested a decline in those win and go top games or in FA cup semi finals. I think Fergie said you need 8 players to play well in order to win a match. I felt no more than 1-2 played well in the big games. CL final only Rose and Winks turned up. The fact that Arsenal won 4 FA cups in the last 8 years when more often than not we had better teams and squads then them is quite baffling. Not saying we should have won the league or the CL, but to have the likes of Kane, Son, Toby, Jan, Eriksen and Dembele and have not a single trophy to show for it is frustrating.

A capable first XI yes but at no point were we a favourite going in to the season (or at any point of our runs in the various cups) for any of the trophies on offer - always an underdog.

I think the last big cup games we were favourites to win were the Portsmouth & Chelsea semis under Redknapp.

2019 we had a starting midfield of Winks & Sissoko - you ain't winning anything with that

 

[DeanoAustin]

I'd take £25m.

 

[Jurgen the German]

A capable first XI yes but at no point were we a favourite going in to the season (or at any point of our runs in the various cups) for any of the trophies on offer - always an underdog.

I think the last big cup games we were favourites to win were the Portsmouth & Chelsea semis under Redknapp.

2019 we had a starting midfield of Winks & Sissoko - you ain't winning anything with that

Maybe not outright favourites, but we were one of the four best teams in the country for 4 years in a row. Arsenal weren’t favourites when they beat Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea in two semi finals and finals but they beat them. Unless you get a very lucky draw then eventually you’re going to have to beat a top team in order to win the league cup or the FA cup. Even if we agree to disagree about whether we should have won trophies or not, the fact is we very rarely played well when we had a chance to go top of the league or in semi finals. I take the point about the bench not being strong but those games IMO were also about bottle to some degree.

 

[billyiddo]

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If i were him (Kane) I'd be joining Bayern on a free at the end of the season. He's given his peak years to the club with not much to show for it - beat Greaves record then spend a few seasons at an elite club.


@Jurgen the German i don't really want to dissect those years again tbh we're talking a couple of year period where we had a small squad but quality XI and we were pushing to challenge for the league & CL, I'm not that bothered we didn't pick up a league or fa cup instead - had that team been kept together and the squad improved so we were talking about a 4-5+ year period I'm sure trophies would have followed.

 

[DeanoAustin]

If i were him (Kane) I'd be joining Bayern on a free at the end of the season. He's given his peak years to the club with not much to show for it - beat Greaves record then spend a few seasons at an elite club.


@Jurgen the German i don't really want to dissect those years again tbh we're talking a couple of year period where we had a small squad but quality XI and we were pushing to challenge for the league & CL, I'm not that bothered we didn't pick up a league or fa cup instead - had that team been kept together and the squad improved so we were talking about a 4-5+ year period I'm sure trophies would have followed.

Doesn't he have another year on his contract after this season? I also never saw him moving abroad and is a Bundesliga or German Cup worth much?

I wouldn't begrudge him a move as long as it's not Chelsea, Woolwich or the Dippers and he doesn't act the prick like last summer. For 99.9% of his time here, he's been everything you'd want in a player. The best I've seen in our shirt if not necessarily the most talented.

 

[elyid]

Difficult to see an obvious move for him.

City have Haaland (and any other team has the potential to finish below us).
Real Madrid have Benzema.
Barca are still in some disarray.
Serie A is surely a step down.

So Bayern are really the only big team available, but as you say, is the German league a big trophy?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Doesn't he have another year on his contract after this season? I also never saw him moving abroad and is a Bundesliga or German Cup worth much?

I wouldn't begrudge him a move as long as it's not Chelsea, Woolwich or the Dippers and he doesn't act the prick like last summer. For 99.9% of his time here, he's been everything you'd want in a player. The best I've seen in our shirt if not necessarily the most talented.

I could see him going to Bayern. They usually have a reasonable shout of winning the CL, more chance than we do anyway. And he’d almost certainly pick up a league winners medal or two.

He already did act like a prick in the summer of 2021 by not turning up for training, giving the most vague update you could give as his explanation why he wasn’t me absent, not to mention that interview he did with Gary Neville. I’ve forgiven him now but he let’s be honest, he knuckled down because he had no other choice. He’d do exactly the same thing next summer if he had to force the club’s hand.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Difficult to see an obvious move for him.

City have Haaland (and any other team has the potential to finish below us).
Real Madrid have Benzema.
Barca are still in some disarray.
Serie A is surely a step down.

So Bayern are really the only big team available, but as you say, is the German league a big trophy?[/QUOTE]


The Champions League is which Bayern have won twice in the last decade and reached numerous finals.

 

[glasgowspur]

Doesn't he have another year on his contract after this season? I also never saw him moving abroad and is a Bundesliga or German Cup worth much?

I wouldn't begrudge him a move as long as it's not Chelsea, Woolwich or the Dippers and he doesn't act the prick like last summer. For 99.9% of his time here, he's been everything you'd want in a player. The best I've seen in our shirt if not necessarily the most talented.

This for me as well, except going to Chelsea wouldn't bother me that much.
It will be a travesty of monumental proportions if he leaves here without a trophy.

 

[glasgowspur]

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Contract running down, unlikely to sign another one, getting older,limited interest, unwillingness to over pay.
Its Eriksen all over again.
We think clubs are lining up to buy and we will get a big fee, guess what, we won't.
£100m, which is what the original poster quoted, never going to happen.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Performance like tonight are why he’s never won anything.

I thought he was our best player after Lloris.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think he's done for the level we want, physically and mentally, he will break the records but only because he will continue to get game time.
There's more in him than we are getting imho, but he is concentrating on records now and not the team.

Good luck getting in somebody even half as good with our likely budget!