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General Transfer Discussion Thread

That would bring our net spending to about 60 mill.. Davies 10, Schneiderlin 20-25, Stones 20, Barkley 50, Zaha 10. Dream on :D

And is 12-14 transfers in a 6 week period.


And I thought Poch had asked for, and Levy promised, stability with the playing personnel
 
That would bring our net spending to about 60 mill.. Davies 10, Schneiderlin 20-25, Stones 20, Barkley 50, Zaha 10. Dream on :D

Why couldn't we have a net spend of £60m?

Since May of last year, we're probably in surplus to the tune of £18m on transfer dealings. In the meanwhile, our wage bill has probably fallen while our income will have increased by £40m or more. So even if we disregard the added income from this year's TV deal and the new shirt sponsorship deal with AIA, we should be able to afford a £60m net spend purely on the basis of last season's earnings and transfer sales.
 
Re: Levy…Baldini…Poch…SOMEBODY - pull your finger out!!

I saw tenuous links to Clasie back when LVG was linked with us, since then nothing. Cambiasso on the other hand was nailed on to be joining us according to a whole host of news sources.

Exactly.

My point is we've been linked to dm's just as much as ball playing cm's.
 
Why couldn't we have a net spend of £60m?

Since May of last year, we're probably in surplus to the tune of £18m on transfer dealings. In the meanwhile, our wage bill has probably fallen while our income will have increased by £40m or more. So even if we disregard the added income from this year's TV deal and the new shirt sponsorship deal with AIA, we should be able to afford a £60m net spend purely on the basis of last season's earnings and transfer sales.

£400m stadium?

Remember the interest alone on a loan like that that will be more than £20m pa. The bigger down-payment we can afford, the less debt/interest we'll be burdened with for the next 10-15 years.

With all respect, I also don't think Superhudd's players are sufficient enough upgrades to warrant blowing £60m on. They are all solid performers, but there's no real potential superstars in there.
 
£400m stadium?

Remember the interest alone on a loan like that that will be more than £20m pa. The bigger down-payment we can afford, the less debt/interest we'll be burdened with for the next 10-15 years.

With all respect, I also don't think Superhudd's players are sufficient enough upgrades to warrant blowing £60m on. They are all solid performers, but there's no real potential superstars in there.

The stadium will not cost £400 million. The entire NDP is forecast to cost in the region of £450m. And £200m of that is earmarked for enabling development, from which Spurs will make a profit and be able to pay off some of the debt for the cost of the stadium construction.

It is quite possible - depending on the exact amount borrowed, the duration of the loan, the rate at which the interest is fixed and the profit from the enabling development - that Spurs' repayment and interest combined will amount to some £20m per annum. But bear in mind that the income from the new stadium, including naming rights, is likely to add some £40-50m per annum to Spurs' revenues. That puts the cost in its proper context. Add to that, the new TV deal (likely to be at least an extra £40m per annum) plus increased sponsorship deals with AIA etc and there's no reason at all not to continue investing in the team.

As I said to you in an earlier discussion, there is no point moving into a shiny, new, all singing and dancing stadium if investment in the team which plays in it has been neglected while other clubs have forged ahead. It would mean huge swathes of empty seats; an asset not being fully exploited. It makes no business sense - especially when there is no need to adopt such a policy.

As to the particular players that Superhudd mentioned, my point was purely a general one - namely that we could spend £60m net if we so chose.
 
The stadium will not cost £400 million. The entire NDP is forecast to cost in the region of £450m. And £200m of that is earmarked for enabling development, from which Spurs will make a profit and be able to pay off some of the debt for the cost of the stadium construction.

It is quite possible - depending on the exact amount borrowed, the duration of the loan, the rate at which the interest is fixed and the profit from the enabling development - that Spurs' repayment and interest combined will amount to some £20m per annum. But bear in mind that the income from the new stadium, including naming rights, is likely to add some £40-50m per annum to Spurs' revenues. That puts the cost in its proper context. Add to that, the new TV deal (likely to be at least an extra £40m per annum) plus increased sponsorship deals with AIA etc and there's no reason at all not to continue investing in the team.

As I said to you in an earlier discussion, there is no point moving into a shiny, new, all singing and dancing stadium if investment in the team which plays in it has been neglected while other clubs have forged ahead. It would mean huge swathes of empty seats; an asset not being fully exploited. It makes no business sense - especially when there is no need to adopt such a policy.

As to the particular players that Superhudd mentioned, my point was purely a general one - namely that we could spend £60m net if we so chose.

Why did building the stadium cripple Arsenal (and Derby, Sunderland, Southampton etc) financially for more than a decade then?

And why have we been in austerity mode for the last 7 years (zero net transfer spend since summer 2007)?

Part of what we've been doing is establishing a sustainable Ajax/Dortmund/Porto 'buy-low sell-high' model where we are able to compete without spending any money. Why would we throw that away and go all spendthrift on the eve of embarking on the biggest capital project in our entire history? It would be like just scraping up to your deposit level for buying a house, then going out and blowing a big chunk of it on a speedboat before your mortgage has come through.
 
£400m stadium?

Remember the interest alone on a loan like that that will be more than £20m pa. The bigger down-payment we can afford, the less debt/interest we'll be burdened with for the next 10-15 years.

With all respect, I also don't think Superhudd's players are sufficient enough upgrades to warrant blowing £60m on. They are all solid performers, but there's no real potential superstars in there.

I think you slightly misunderstand the stadium finances mate.... The stadium will be self financing via the extra revenue that it generates. Otherwise what is the point of building it in the first place?

Firstly we won't be borrowing anything like £400 million so we don't (and won't) have £20 million of interest to pay each season forever more....

The £400 or £450 million (depending on which way the wind blows) you see quoted in the press is the cost of the whole project. This includes costs for aquiring the land, the planning costs (both of which have already been accounted for and paid) as well as the costs of the enabling developments.

A more realitic figure to look at for the stadium is £200 million (the estimated stadium only build cost). Spurs are only likely to have to raise that amount as a maximum - as one would assume that the enabling developments of the supermarket and housing would at the very worst pay for themselves and should in fact even make a healthy profit as, again, what would be the point in building them if they didn't?

So the question is actually on how would THFC fund £200 million of borrowings? Well at a 5% rate of interest (and I think we could well do better than this with uncle Lewis underwriting it) That would work out as follows:

1. £25,542,000 per annum if paying off over 10 years
2. £18,984,000 per annum if paying off over 15 years
3. £15,840,000 per annum if paying off over 20 years

Let's factor in a stadium naming rights sponorship amount of (say) £10 million a year and THFC are then left with having to find only: £15M, £9M or £6M a year of extra revenue each year to pay the stadium off and that's before we consider the fact that we could do a stadium naming deal that pays a large portion up front or that the club might look to offer debentures/multi year season tickets/supporter bonds/etc, etc.

My own thoughts on funding (and these are just my own thoughts - no 'ITK') are that Levy and Lewis will do something even more clever. A THFC with a 56,000 stadium with excellent corporate facilities is worth a lot more than a THFC with a tired old 36,000 WHL. I wonder whether we'll see Spurs sell naming rights to a corporate sponsor who also make a large loan to club that converts to equity once the stadium is complete. i.e. Levy and Lewis effectively give away a percentage of the club (say 20%) to directly fund the stadium. It would mean that the stadium could be paid for completely and Levy and Lewis' remaining 80% stake in the club would be worth a lot more upon completion of the build - everyone's a winner!

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this post?.... I guess stadium thread would've been better (mods - please move if so)
 
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Why did building the stadium cripple Arsenal (and Derby, Sunderland, Southampton etc) financially for more than a decade then?

And why have we been in austerity mode for the last 7 years (zero net transfer spend since summer 2007)?

Part of what we've been doing is establishing a sustainable Ajax/Dortmund/Porto 'buy-low sell-high' model where we are able to compete without spending any money. Why would we throw that away and go all spendthrift on the eve of embarking on the biggest capital project in our entire history? It would be like just scraping up to your deposit level for buying a house, then going out and blowing a big chunk of it on a speedboat before your mortgage has come through.

It didn't cripple Arsenal at all. They had money to spend if they wanted to. The manager just chose not to. Arsenal's new stadium has been a huge success and we can take a lot of their good practices and transfer them to our build, however there were also things that Arsenal did very badly - firstly they massively undersold sponsorship (both naming rights and shirt sponsorship). Secondly they took all of their funding from banks - at a time when bank financing costs were extremely high. Thirdly they were building property in the midst of a property slump, off plan sales were extremely poor. I would be flabberghasted if we under sell sponsorship, I would be surprised if Levy and Lewis do not use a wider range of sources to fund the stadium and I think we may well sell off the residential development to a developer instead to bring in further funds/cut our financial exposure.

We have been in austerity mode in the last few years for a few reasons.

1. We had a rather expensive new training ground to purchase and build (now complete and paid off).
2. We had a rather expensive land purchasing and planning process to go through for the new stadium (now complete and paid off).
3. Our wage bill has risen hugely over those years, while revenues haven't had a large spike.

This year wages have remained pretty consistent yet the PL TV contract has gone up significantly.

The other clubs you mention are a poor example.... All suffered relegations and none have anything like the supporters (in terms of numbers of affluence) that we do.
 
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That would bring our net spending to about 60 mill.. Davies 10, Schneiderlin 20-25, Stones 20, Barkley 50, Zaha 10. Dream on :D

Barkley 50m... lol Dream on

I had Stones and Barkley at 50m

Schneiderlin 20-25 lol more like 18m

I would have it more like 88m - 45m = 43m net
 
And is 12-14 transfers in a 6 week period.


And I thought Poch had asked for, and Levy promised, stability with the playing personnel

Those transfers would improve the squad and get rid of the players that are not cutting the mustard. Strengthen the bottom end.

BTW.. there is very little stability when a new manager arrives, maybe there is a stability once the manager has his team of players but until then... every member is walking the tightrope
 
Barkley 50m... lol Dream on

I had Stones and Barkley at 50m

Schneiderlin 20-25 lol more like 18m

I would have it more like 88m - 45m = 43m net

Everton turned down 60 mill from Utd last summer for Barkley
 
Great insight by Jimmy and Finney above.

I have been saying for years that the stadium could have been built easily especially with the naming rights and who Joe knows. Even his own money. And got shot down many times... hey Jimmy.. ;)

For me this should have all started when it was first mooted properly 5 years ago. Still not gonna moan now things are in motion.

GutterBoy as an example.. the Olympic stadium cost in the region of 120m.. it had the bare necessities... whereby the project was a lot more. It used to grate me a lot what that Brady women would say when we were going after Stratford, saying we would be knocking down 500m worth of tax payers money.. and the national media were lapping up the headline.. truth was we wasn't, a lot of that large figure went on making the site clean. What they are now doing though is spending 150m on changing it to a s hite football stadium, when we are spending not much more on our stadium build.
 
was the head from Haile Berry any good? which of your 200 mansions are you staying at today?

Not sure where this is heading but can I say that the head I gave Haile Berry was out of this world... and that Vince McMahon wishes for me to show him some moves for him to use on the WWE Divas.

I sent him this... and called it the cunnilingus ladder smash

Ee7Nj.gif
 
Verts and Chirches together frightens the life out of me. There's absolutely no physicality there. If we're losing one or both of Kaboul and Daws, we need to replace them with an equally powerful CB.

We had Caulker at the club for 5+ years. There's no way we'd've let him go if he had a chance of making it. QPR/Palace are the only clubs in for him for a reason - that's his level.


GB Ive moved this in here as didn't want to clogg up the ITK thread.

The thing is, the modern game, where are people producing overly physical centre forwards? The likes of Carroll are the minority and the new breed is more Suarez, Sanchez, Aguero.

I'll give you Aguero, Sturridge, Coasta, Sanchez or OG, and Lukaku from the teams above us and RVP and Rooney from Man United. should any of these strikers be able to easily out muscle Vertonghen? Not on your nelly.

I believe Caulker leaving was a AVB call that he got wrong, I think we will regret it happening in 5 years time.
 
Hotspur Related @HotspurRelated

Southampton midfielder Morgan Schneiderlin (@SchneiderlinMo4) follows Tottenham's official twitter feed. #THFC
 
Why did building the stadium cripple Arsenal (and Derby, Sunderland, Southampton etc) financially for more than a decade then?

And why have we been in austerity mode for the last 7 years (zero net transfer spend since summer 2007)?

Part of what we've been doing is establishing a sustainable Ajax/Dortmund/Porto 'buy-low sell-high' model where we are able to compete without spending any money. Why would we throw that away and go all spendthrift on the eve of embarking on the biggest capital project in our entire history? It would be like just scraping up to your deposit level for buying a house, then going out and blowing a big chunk of it on a speedboat before your mortgage has come through.

Building the stadium didn't cripple Arsenal at all. They've been rolling in money for years - making huge profits ever since they moved into the Emirates. Their lack of spending has largely been down to Wenger's stubbornness, from what I can tell.

But let's, just for the sake of it, assume that you were right. A quick look at the differences between the two clubs' circumstances at the commencement of their respective construction projects:

It might surprise you to know that Spurs, without Champions League money, are considerably richer now than Arsenal, with Champions League money, were in 2004. Arsenal's turnover back then was £138.4m. For the past financial year, Spurs' turnover will likely be in the region of £190m. So Spurs will be in a better position to service their debt without it affecting the club's normal operations.

Secondly, interest rates have never been lower. Certainly, they are far lower now than they were when Arsenal went to the banks. Spurs also have the advantage, ironically enough, of Arsenal having proved that a responsibly managed English club can take on a major stadium project and make it hugely profitable.

Except for Archway, Spurs owns all the property they need and they are debt free. Arsenal had to spend £60m on a new waste and recycling plant for Islington. Where Arsenal did have the advantage, of course, was the ability to redevelop and sell Highbury - a much bigger and more profitable development than our enabling development will be. But, in the short term, it did mean that their debt rose massively until the new properties were sold.

Lastly, it is universally acknowledged that Arsenal hugely undersold themselves when agreeing their naming rights deal with Emirates. Not just the naming rights, in fact, but also the shirt sponsorship. I think we all know enough about Daniel Levy by now to know that there is zero chance that he will make the same mistake.

The other clubs (that you mention as having had stadium finance issues) are irrelevant. We are following the Arsenal stadium model.

As to your next claim - that we have been in austerity mode for the past 7 years - where do you get that idea? It's true that we have earned almost as much from player trading as we have spent over the past four years but that's because wages rose dramatically in 2010. By £30m, in fact. Curiously enough, £30 million is more or less the amount that we had become accustomed to spending, net, on transfers every year. So you see, we were spending every penny that we could on the team. The only difference is that it went towards player wages rather than player transfers. There was nothing being held back for the stadium.

And no, ours is not the Porto or Ajax model. Our aim is to balance the books through normal operations. Not through player trading. We sell only when we do not wish to keep a player or when a player no longer wishes to stay with us.
 
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